Anti-war 'shields' in Iraq go home

[Insane3D]

I see your point, but I still disagree. These are soldiers fighting in a war. Civilian casualties are part of war, and as such, it is something they have to deal with....human shields or no.

 

[Insane3D]

Ok guys, I'm done. 🙂 I am well aware my opinion is in the minority, and I accept that. However, I respect your opinions, and I think it is fair for me to ask the same in return.

🙂

Have a good evening..

🙂

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I see your point, but I still disagree. These are soldiers fighting in a war. Civilian casualties are part of war, and as such, it is something they have to deal with....human shields or no.

Like I said, you make it obvious that you have never been in combat. American soldiers will do whatever is necessary to achieve their goal, but having civilians deliberately place themselves in their sights does give them pause. That moment of inaction can change not only their own life, but the lives of their entire unit.

You don't understand.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

how typical. hopefully some of these idiots will finally "get it" and join us in the real world sometime.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I see your point, but I still disagree. These are soldiers fighting in a war. Civilian casualties are part of war, and as such, it is something they have to deal with....human shields or no.

Like I said, you make it obvious that you have never been in combat. American soldiers will do whatever is necessary to achieve their goal, but having civilians deliberately place themselves in their sights does give them pause. That moment of inaction can change not only their own life, but the lives of their entire unit.

You don't understand.

I have not been in combat, but I do understand the point you are making...and it is valid. However, civilian casualties will happen in war...plain and simple. I still don't think the level of what they are doing there rises to treason.

 

[Kadarin]

From the article:

Many shields had earlier asked to be stationed at sites such as schools, hospitals or orphanages, but Iraqi officials said there was little point in guarding low-risk targets in any aerial assault.

Contrary to what the Moonbeams and hagbards of the world would have you believe, it appears that even Iraqi officials understand that the US military would not purposely target civilians, and are even likely to go to great pains to avoid civilian deaths. The Iraqis told these clowns to either get with the program and station themselves at specific targets or get out of the country; given that 9 of the 11 "human shields" elected to cut and run, I'm guessing that the Iraqis are about as impressed with these idiots as we are.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: aphex
Since im going to bed in a sec, I just wanted to recap this one more time...

trea·son ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)
n.

1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.

2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.

&

aid ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d)

intr. & tr.v. aid·ed, aid·ing, aids

1. To help or furnish with help, support, or relief.

2. The act or result of helping; assistance.

The human shields are essentially laying their lives on the line for Iraq, i.e. AIDING them. In my eyes (as in many others), this is treason in the purest form.

How are they aiding Iraq? Via propaganda? There are a lot of Americans at home who are very against the war that make Iraq look good. Are they guilty of treason? Propaganda is merely expressing your beliefs. Although it can have a rather large effect, you cannot arrest or convict people because of their beliefs, because that goes against what the "free world" believes in. Being in a belligerent nation does not constitute you as being a traitor. As long as you are passive, and not an active supporter, you arent doing jack.

Lets look back to your definition. It says violation of allegiance toward's one sovreignty, especially... blah blah. After especially, it merely cites examples (which are rather vague and can be interpretted in many ways), but the bottom line is a violation of allegiance. Have these people violated their allegiance towards UK? No, not according to the article.

And after reading only 3 articles from aim.org, the self-acclaimed fariness + balanced news source on the world, its obvious they they are conservative right (though not extreme).

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Iwentsouth

Almost all the first British "human shields" to go to Iraq were on their way home yesterday after deciding that their much-heralded task is now too dangerous.

Link

Goodbye! I wonder what made them think they were going to be effective anyway? At 20,000 feet, a bomb is not going to discern between an Iraqi and a human shield.

 

[Moonbeam]

Astaroth, I guess you didn't catch on that I wasn't serious about the military targeting civilians. I am serious about the militaty targeting targets and the war bding a forgone conclusion and that these people will die if they stand somewhere they shouldn't be. We aren't going to let human shields stop us, or the theath of Iraqi children. We've got it chalked up to colatteral damage. We won't be detered, but I don't think the targeting is intended at civilians. The targets will be military but civilians will die. We don't want that but we don't care enough not to do it anyway. It's just one of those thing. We have an empire to create, a religious dream to build. People are just trouble.

 

[IGBT]

Typical liberal..can't walk the talk.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: IGBT
Typical liberal..can't walk the talk.

Typical generalization. 😛

 

[Moonbeam]

What I don't get is how is speach not active. I mean maybe for Amused it's automatic, but i have to think about what I want to say and breathe and put my being behind my voice. It is very active. I don't think active and passive is gonna get us to a valid definition of treason. Also there is nothing more active than war and this war is treason itself. Bu attacking on the theory of suspicion we become the Mafia of the world. We become the Axe of Evil. Anybody trying to stop the war is a patriot and the war people are the enemy of America. Right? I mean this is obvious. Clear and obvious as a bell. The war forces are giving aid and comfort to the enemy by rotting us from within. They are also using propaganda to pretend otherwise. Everybody knows that.

Oh man, what a wicked world.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I see your point, but I still disagree. These are soldiers fighting in a war. Civilian casualties are part of war, and as such, it is something they have to deal with....human shields or no.

With already somewhat tenuous support both in the States and abroad for going into Iraq, ANY propaganda value of their presence and their eventual deaths could be exploited by Saddam to turn popular opinion even more against the war effort. If you don't think popular opinion has an effect on the military, you might want to read about this little part of history called the Vietnam War.

Further, if you think that the presence of human shields wouldn't impact military targeting, then you are sorely mistaken -- see above for reasons why.

 

[Insane3D]

With already somewhat tenuous support both in the States and abroad for going into Iraq

Somewhat tenuous?

ANY propaganda value of their presence and their eventual deaths could be exploited by Saddam to turn popular opinion even more against the war effort. If you don't think popular opinion has an effect on the military, you might want to read about this little part of history called the Vietnam War.

I didn't say it has no effect, I just don't think what they are doing rises to the level of treason.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Nine out of the 11 activists decided to pull out after being given an ultimatum by Iraqi officials yesterday to station themselves at targets likely to be bombed in a war or leave the country.

Gee wtf did they think he was gonna do with them once they got there?
He does this to his own people for God's sake why should a bunch of foreigners be any different.

That's hilarious. Put up or shut up.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
wow... thats possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard... being in a potential warzone could be dangerous? OMG!

That tells you the caliber of these people more than anthing else.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ime
I hope they are all arrested for treason the minute they get home.

If Herr Ashcroft had his way they would be. Frankly I think it would have been a good idea to include some CIA Spooks with those HS's

 

Well, I wanted to be a human shield, but then I found out it was dangerous, SO I GOT SCARED AND WENT HOME.

Geniuses - all of 'em.

 

[ScottMac]

It wouldn't suprise me at all if Saddam blew up/ shot the human shields, then said it was American Bombs (shooting, whatever) that killed 'em. Worse case, he'll decide that they're all spys and kill 'em all anyway.

He really has nothing to lose at this point, for all intents and purposes, he's a "Dead Man Walking" ...unfortunately, he's got access to personnel and resources that'll ensure he doesn't go by himself.

JM.02

Scott

 

[Rastus]

I wonder if any human shields are spies for us. They could give valuable targeting data, or just sites that need to be inspected by the UN.

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
It wouldn't suprise me at all if Saddam blew up/ shot the human shields, then said it was American Bombs (shooting, whatever) that killed 'em. Worse case, he'll decide that they're all spys and kill 'em all anyway.

He really has nothing to lose at this point, for all intents and purposes, he's a "Dead Man Walking" ...unfortunately, he's got access to personnel and resources that'll ensure he doesn't go by himself.

JM.02

Scott

I have very similar concerns about taking Baghdad if we do have to resort to war. What if he unleashed checmical and biological weapons on his own people in the hopes of making the US look like butchers?...:disgust:

 

[OutHouse]

Yes the Human shields are Traitors. want a history lesson read up on Toyko Rose. All she did was talk on the radio.

Story of Tokyo Rose

Tokyo Rose was born Ikuko Toguri in Los Angeles on July 4, 1916. Her father, Jun Toguri, had come to the United States from Japan in 1899. Her mother followed in 1913, and the family moved to Los Angeles

On July 5, 1941, Toguri sailed for Japan from San Pedro, California, without a United States passport. She reportedly gave two reasons for her trip: to visit a sick aunt and to study medicine.

After the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor, Toguri applied for repatriation to the United States through the Swiss Legation in Japan, but later withdrew the application, indicating she would voluntarily remain in Japan for the duration.

After Japan's surrender in August 1945, United States Army authorities arrested Mrs. D'Aquino as a security risk, and she was kept in various Japanese prisons until her release in 1945. She was again arrested by Army authorities in September 1948, and brought under military escort to the United States, arriving in San Francisco on September 25, 1948. There, she was immediately arrested by Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Agents acting on authority of a warrant charging her with the crime of treason for adhering to, and giving aid and comfort to, the Imperial Government of Japan during World War II.

On October 6, 1949, Mrs. D'Aquino was sentenced in the San Francisco courtroom to ten years of imprisonment and fined $100,000 for the crime of treason.

On January 28, 1956, D'Aquino was released from the Federal Reformatory for Women at Alderson, West Virginia, where she had served six years and two months of her sentence. She successfully fought government efforts to deport her.

In November 1976, Mrs. D'Aquino filed another petition for Presidential Pardon; she previously had applied unsuccessfully for pardon in 1954 and 1968. On January 19, 1977, President Gerald Ford issued a pardon to her.

Mrs. D'Aquino was last known to be living in the Chicago, Illinois, area.

 

[jaybittle]

My favorite line in the whole article is :

"It heightened fears among some peace activists that they could be stationed at non-civilian sites.."

It's good to see so many peace activists who are commited to the cause.. I hope they didn't get a speeding ticket leaving Baghdad....

cheers,
--jb

 

[ThePresence]

Since nobody else said it yet:

Damn Hippies.

 

[PCMarine]

Originally posted by: Jmman
LOL!! Being a human shield is dangerous? Well, duh.....🙂

Yea, people these days