Because I live in a place where there's very little opportunity - I've been trying to find a new job for the past year and have had no luck. I can't move at present because I own a house and houses aren't selling in this market.
Because I live in a place where there's very little opportunity - I've been trying to find a new job for the past year and have had no luck. I can't move at present because I own a house and houses aren't selling in this market.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,830
- 3
- 0
GM makes cars and truck in at least two assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario. Chrysler has an assembly plant Brampton, Ontario. Ford has an assembly plant in St. Thomas, Ontario. Dodge Rams are made in Saltillo, Mexico. I'm sure someone else can think of more. I know there are lots of part plants in Mexico.
So the UAW membership is down. I figure that the United Steelwokers is probably down also. What UAW doesnt see is that the future union membership base is not in the private sector where merit counts but in the public sector where merit has no bearing on your job. Just look at the growth of SEIU over that past few years.
I out this in the anti-unuion thread because I believe Whirlpool used to have a union.
Apparently they no longer do as unions would not normally tolerate this kind of employee abuse:
4-23-2008 Whirlpool suspends 39 workers, says they lied about smoking
INDIANAPOLIS - Smoking can be hazardous to your health, and it's turning into a bad career move, too.
Management suspended the 39 employees Friday after they were spotted using either chewing tobacco on company property or taking a drag in one of the factory's dozen shelters for outdoor smoking, Castrale said.
The federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act limits the changes an employer can make to a health premium because of a worker's unhealthy habits. But it doesn't set parameters on punishment if an employee lies about his or her habit, Paton said.
Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, which advocates for employee privacy, sees no problem with employers trying to curb smoking. But he worries that the trend of cracking down on employees' unhealthy behavior is extending beyond tobacco use.
"We shouldn't have to give employers complete control over our private life so they can save a few dollars on medical care," he said.
===============================
The slippery slopes gets steeper everyday
Apparently they no longer do as unions would not normally tolerate this kind of employee abuse:
4-23-2008 Whirlpool suspends 39 workers, says they lied about smoking
INDIANAPOLIS - Smoking can be hazardous to your health, and it's turning into a bad career move, too.
Management suspended the 39 employees Friday after they were spotted using either chewing tobacco on company property or taking a drag in one of the factory's dozen shelters for outdoor smoking, Castrale said.
The federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act limits the changes an employer can make to a health premium because of a worker's unhealthy habits. But it doesn't set parameters on punishment if an employee lies about his or her habit, Paton said.
Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, which advocates for employee privacy, sees no problem with employers trying to curb smoking. But he worries that the trend of cracking down on employees' unhealthy behavior is extending beyond tobacco use.
"We shouldn't have to give employers complete control over our private life so they can save a few dollars on medical care," he said.
===============================
The slippery slopes gets steeper everyday
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,550
- 4
- 81
Depends on where that 500 goes. Typically when you sign up for insurance you will get a higher rate if you claim to be a smoker or heavy alcohol user. The reason is simple. You are a higher risk for a claim due to your bad habits. If the company claims you a smoker chances are they will have a higher rate and the 500 is used to offset the costs of the higher premium. Now if they are just pocketing the cash, then yeah, it is no more than ripping them off.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,145
- 10
- 81
so what i they pocket the money? it cost the company more on insurance (they do pay part of your insurance) to have you smoke. they get a discount for non-smokers (so does the worker).
they lied. now they are not eligable for the discount.
to me its the workers stealing from the company.
Half-truth much?
They signed up as non-smokers on the company's health plan, which saved them $500 a year on health insurance. They were caught smoking... not just once, but repeatedly. They lied. Company has a policy against fraudelnt paperwork or some such. They are following company policy.
FWIW, if their policy works like ours, then the Maytag was being thiefed, not the insurance company. The insurance company works off of group rates, pools, and past experience. The company probably incents employees not to smoke by lowering their rates. Employees lied to get the $500. I'd fire them for a lack of integrity. I wouldnt want liars working for me either.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Personally, I very much wonder if a company can regulate what a worker does on their time off. So if a company says you must be tobacco use free 24/7/365, they are in effect saying the employee works for them, 24/7/365. And since overtime laws kick in after 40 hours a week, we are talking big bucks now if that distinction is made.
I would guess a couple arguements would be...
a) Health insurance is not something a company has to provide. You want it? You gotta play by company rules.
b) These employees were foolish enough to use tobacco on company property. On the clock or not, you can just do whatever you want on someone else's property and have no consequences.
c) Insurance companies govern what you can and cant do (by the claims they allow) all the time... I cant go skydiving, die, and expect my life insurance to pay off.
No it doesnt.
a) it isnt paying $500 more, its NOT getting a $500 discount. You have to sign up to get the $500 discount. If you are are a NON-smoker and dont sign up, no discount for you.
b) they lied. It doesnt matter where the money is going. They knew the rules, they lied, and they got caught. They are lucky they werent fired on the spot.
Sorry... it isnt "ends justifies the means here" and they arent Robin Hood. They didnt play by the rules when they agreed to.. they lose.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
It wasn't Whirlpool, it was their health insurer. And it is common for insurance companies to offer "tobacco-free" discounts.
And it wasn't their time off, they were caught smoking on company property.
I would argue that this provides yet another reason why employers should not be dictating our health care (does your employer dictate your car insurance? of course not), but at the same time these idiots lied on their benefit paperwork, smoked openly on company property despite that, all for $500/year that they wouldn't have even had to pay taxes on.
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,550
- 4
- 81
I have no problem with this. It pisses me off that I pay the same health premiums as someone who smokes a few packs a day. I am essentially subsidizing their smoking habit, because it's likely they are going to be a much bigger burden on the insurance company than I am.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I agree(and I still smoke ATM). I also think that health premiums should be higher for those who live unhealthy lifestyles - which is not limited to smoking. Why should the guy in the next cube pay the same as me when he is a heart attack waiting to happen? Of the guy who lets his diabetes rage out of control when it could be controlled with a healthier diet and exercise?
Employers dont dictate your health insurance. They offer an environment where health insurance can be obtained at a cheaper rate than obtaining it individually. Often, they subsidize those premiums even further.
I dont see how that is dictating coverage. You can take it... or leave it. It is your choice.
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