Anti-semitism on the rise..? Comments by liberal congress woman, calls for apology from fellow Democrats.

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woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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#76
Um, 1948 to the present day?

I'm going to grit my teeth and try and stay out of this. That's been my resolution for a long time, to stay out of Israel/Palestine arguments. Having close family fiercely on opposite sides of that one makes me feel that way. It's not my problem, but for many it' seems like a matter of life-and-death.
It's more like 1967 to the present. We weren't that close to Israel until the '67 war.
 
Sep 4, 2005
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#77
There is a best guess where the upper range of total US Jews is 6.8 million. Total in Israel is 6.5 million. The likely US population is less.

That said, Trump calling countries shit holes was labeled as racist. Was it not racist to call them shit holes?
Trump made that comment in reference to THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES immigrating to the US. Jesus you choose the dumbest hills to die on.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#78
Um, 1948 to the present day?

I'm going to grit my teeth and try and stay out of this. That's been my resolution for a long time, to stay out of Israel/Palestine arguments. Having close family fiercely on opposite sides of that one makes me feel that way. It's not my problem, but for many it' seems like a matter of life-and-death.
Fair enough. I wont drag you down into this then.

I will say that I agree that the US felt very guilty for its role in ignoring the Jews in WWII. I think the Cold War also played a role as the USSR was pretty hard on Jews, so the US being anti USSR become more Jewish friendly.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#79
The anti-Israel left doesn't acknowledge there is any such thing as dog whistle anti-semitism at all. If you didn't say "Jews" it doesn't matter if you used every common anti-semitic trope in the book. Oh, and it's OK to infer racism against people of color. Nothing explicit ever need to be said.
That is what it seems like. I'm seeing Trumps words of Shit Hole when referring to countries as equal to this. It was racist when he did it, but, not here? Seems like a double standard.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#80
Trump made that comment in reference to THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES immigrating to the US. Jesus you choose the dumbest hills to die on.
I know that. What does that change?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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#81
The anti-Israel left doesn't acknowledge there is any such thing as dog whistle anti-semitism at all. If you didn't say "Jews" it doesn't matter if you used every common anti-semitic trope in the book. Oh, and it's OK to infer racism against people of color. Nothing explicit ever need to be said.
It's perfectly obvious that the Israeli govt's idea of a two state solution is perpetual occupation, repression & ongoing expropriation of Palestinian resources. Dance around that all you want.
 
Oct 10, 1999
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#82
Condemning Apartheid South Africa was racist against White People. True Facts.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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#83
The anti-Israel left doesn't acknowledge there is any such thing as dog whistle anti-semitism at all. If you didn't say "Jews" it doesn't matter if you used every common anti-semitic trope in the book. Oh, and it's OK to infer racism against people of color. Nothing explicit ever need to be said.
I don’t think that’s fair at all. Some people ABSOLUTELY criticize Israel as a proxy for criticizing Jews. Just because some people do that however does not make criticism of Israel inherently anti-Semitic as he claimed.

Similarly, some people criticize say, Liberia because they are racists (Trump). This does not make criticism of Liberia inherently racist.
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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#84
It's perfectly obvious that the Israeli govt's idea of a two state solution is perpetual occupation, repression & ongoing expropriation of Palestinian resources. Dance around that all you want.
It's pretty obvious that when you accuse "Israel" of "hypnotizing" people with their dirty money that these are anti-semitic tropes, and that liberals have called conservatives racist for far less than that. Dance around that all you want.
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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#85
I don’t think that’s fair at all. Some people ABSOLUTELY criticize Israel as a proxy for criticizing Jews. Just because some people do that however does not make criticism of Israel inherently anti-Semitic as he claimed.
I don't understand your reply as I never said all forms of criticism of Israel are anti-Semitic. I myself am critical of Likud policy and Netanyahu.

I am referring to the use of anti-Semitic tropes where the word "Israel" is used instead of the words "Jew" or "Jews" but otherwise the statement is uncannily similar to accusations made against Jews for thousands of years. Hypnotic powers of persuasion. Using money to manipulate people to achieve nefarious ends. Disloyalty to one's home country in favor of another. Etc.

Similarly, some people criticize say, Liberia because they are racists (Trump). This does not make criticism of Liberia inherently racist.
Liberians haven't had vicious accusations made against them for 1000's of years now, and are not now seeing them repeated not only by people on the fringe right, but also now on the far left. You know, the liberal left, who are supposed to fight bigotry in all its forms. More to the point, black people have an ally in the left. Jews, who throw three-quarters of their votes to democrats - I'm not so sure.

How would it be if the leaders of say, the tea party movement, were playing footsie with people like David Duke? Because we have several leaders of the Women's March who are cozy with Farrakhan - who is as anti-semitic as Duke - and refuse to denounce him. While other liberals run cover for them and make excuses.

We don't get to say there's a "dog whistle" for racism against non-whites then claim it's all OK if you search and replace the word "Jew" with the word "Israel" in what is otherwise indistinguishable from a standard anti-semitic screed.

All forms of bigotry should be unequivocally denounced on the left, and that includes the forms where it isn't made explicit.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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#86
It's pretty obvious that when you accuse "Israel" of "hypnotizing" people with their dirty money that these are anti-semitic tropes, and that liberals have called conservatives racist for far less than that. Dance around that all you want.
I didn't say that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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#88
I don't understand your reply as I never said all forms of criticism of Israel are anti-Semitic. I myself am critical of Likud policy and Netanyahu.

I am referring to the use of anti-Semitic tropes where the word "Israel" is used instead of the words "Jew" or "Jews" but otherwise the statement is uncannily similar to accusations made against Jews for thousands of years. Hypnotic powers of persuasion. Using money to manipulate people to achieve nefarious ends. Disloyalty to one's home country in favor of another. Etc.
Well I mean this whole debate about criticism of Israel in this thread started because realibrad said exactly that, repeatedly.

Liberians haven't had vicious accusations made against them for 1000's of years now, and are not now seeing them repeated not only by people on the fringe right, but also now on the far left. You know, the liberal left, who are supposed to fight bigotry in all its forms. More to the point, black people have an ally in the left. Jews, who throw three-quarters of their votes to democrats - I'm not so sure.

How would it be if the leaders of say, the tea party movement, were playing footsie with people like David Duke? Because we have several leaders of the Women's March who are cozy with Farrakhan - who is as anti-semitic as Duke - and refuse to denounce him. While other liberals run cover for them and make excuses.
What liberals are you referring to, specifically?

We don't get to say there's a "dog whistle" for racism against non-whites then claim it's all OK if you search and replace the word "Jew" with the word "Israel" in what is otherwise indistinguishable from a standard anti-semitic screed.

All forms of bigotry should be unequivocally denounced on the left, and that includes the forms where it isn't made explicit.
I would never say that, so don't worry.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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#89
Yeah, the same people who equate Jewish business leaders as the devil and who chant "Jews will not replace us!" in the streets want everyone to know that criticizing the Israeli govt is antisemitic.
 
Feb 6, 2002
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#90
Why is criticizing the government of Israel labeled anti-Semitic? Kissing Netanyahu's ass should not guide our middle east policy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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#91
All forms of bigotry should be unequivocally denounced on the left, and that includes the forms where it isn't made explicit.
It is never bigotry to criticize a government or its policies. Never.

And do they not teach US history in the schools any more? The reason that Liberia is being brought up in this thread is because Liberia was created by a racist American policy that wanted freed black slaves, following the Civil War, to be shipped back to Africa.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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#92
No, a democratic Congresswoman did. That is the subject of this thread.
She didn't say "dirty money". It doesn't change the fact that the Israeli govt has been methodically fucking the Palestinians for decades, either. If you think that's peachy, just say so.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#93
I don’t think that’s fair at all. Some people ABSOLUTELY criticize Israel as a proxy for criticizing Jews. Just because some people do that however does not make criticism of Israel inherently anti-Semitic as he claimed.

Similarly, some people criticize say, Liberia because they are racists (Trump). This does not make criticism of Liberia inherently racist.
Is Pepe the frog racist? Some people ABSOLUTELY use it that way, but, not all.

How about the OK sign?

How about MEGA hats?
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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#94
Well I mean this whole debate about criticism of Israel in this thread started because realibrad said exactly that, repeatedly.
Said exactly what, that every form of criticizing Israel is anti-semitic? I don't think so. But even if he did, your statement was a reply to my post, not his. And it didn't make sense since I never said that.

What liberals are you referring to, specifically?
In reference to my Women's March example? This controversy has been reported on quite a bit, way beyond just conservative media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2bc5858c3a4c

Names: Tamika Mallory, Carmen Perez, Bob Bland, Linda Sarsour.

Fortunately some on the left are condemning it.


Though more are just pretending it doesn't exist.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
43,345
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#95
Is Pepe the frog racist? Some people ABSOLUTELY use it that way, but, not all.

How about the OK sign?

How about MEGA hats?
This is cute coming from the guy who joins with Slow in finding some tiny thing that they can then generally attribute to 'the left.'
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
7,654
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#96
She didn't say "dirty money". It doesn't change the fact that the Israeli govt has been methodically fucking the Palestinians for decades, either. If you think that's peachy, just say so.
Oh, I see she didn't use the word "dirty" before the word "money" so that makes it OK.

Your attempt to change the subject is just this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrelevant_conclusion
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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#97
Why is criticizing the government of Israel labeled anti-Semitic? Kissing Netanyahu's ass should not guide our middle east policy.
Simple, really. Just like many Americans believe all blacks should go back to Africa, many Americans believe all Jews should go back to Israel. As such, criticizing Israel becomes the same - in their minds - as criticizing Jews. And finding out that their ethno-separatist ideology is the actual bigotry just causes cognitive dissonance.
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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#98
Why is criticizing the government of Israel labeled anti-Semitic? Kissing Netanyahu's ass should not guide our middle east policy.
It isn't. But these tropes that are constantly used are a lot like "blackface" for Jews. You wouldn't understand it if you had little knowledge of the history of anti-semitism any more than a white person with little knowledge of the history of racism in America understands blackface.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
60,185
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#99
Said exactly what, that every form of criticizing Israel is anti-semitic? I don't think so. But even if he did, your statement was a reply to my post, not his. And it didn't make sense since I never said that.
Well yeah but I just sort of assumed your reply was to the general topic. I never accused you of saying it personally.

Let me guess, you don't hate the Jews, you just hate the place where they mostly live.
In reference to my Women's March example? This controversy has been reported on quite a bit, way beyond just conservative media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2bc5858c3a4c

Names: Tamika Mallory, Carmen Perez, Bob Bland, Linda Sarsour.

Fortunately some on the left are condemning it.


Though more are just pretending it doesn't exist.
It's hard for me to interpret these women being roundly criticized by liberals of all stripes as somehow being indicative of liberals' indifference to antisemitism. I'm very sure there are antisemites on the left but these people are pretty marginal figures - if you had given me their names and asked me who they were before reading this I couldn't have told you.
 
Jan 12, 2005
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Is Pepe the frog racist? Some people ABSOLUTELY use it that way, but, not all.

How about the OK sign?

How about MEGA hats?

It isn't racist, but I got yelled at for posting it here. Snowflake P&N...

An admin here also told me, "whites cannot be a victim of racism in this country." so... understand what you're dealing with.
 

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