Anti Seize Compound

[jjsbasmt]

Just ordered new spark plugs for my GM car and was confused about whether or not to use anti-seize compound when I replace the plugs. My Haynes manual says to use it, but on the Advance Auto website I found "do not use" from one of the reps at Advance. I am using the AC Delco Iridium 41-101 plugs on my 2002 Grand Am GT1 V6 if that matters.

 

[master_shake_]

i never use it just a dab of oil on the threads.

careful taking those plugs out, aluminum heads and all.

 

[jjsbasmt]

Thanks master_shake_. This will be my first time changing the plugs. I have read that the back ones can be a "bear" to get out. I have 109K on the car and this is the 2nd time the plugs are being changed. Dealer did my last change about 6 yrs or so ago. The car runs fine, but since I just changed out all filters and oil change (synthetic) and did the brakes myself I figured the only reasonable thing left was the plugs.

 

[master_shake_]

the spark plugs are supposed to be good for 160,000 kilometers.

the back ones aren't bad there are worse... just be mindful of how you start them, i use a spark plug boot.

and when you grasp the wires use a twisting motion or you may rip the wire off the electrode.

 

[jjsbasmt]

I'm going to pick up a boot puller when I stop by Advance Auto to get the plugs and a couple of other things namely the correct spark plug socket for this operation. Say, do you have Advance Auto near where you reside?

 

[WackyDan]

I would double check whether you need anti-seize or some other compound.

One of my vehicles requires Heat sink compound on the spark plug threads. Yes... Heat sink compound - same shit as for computers essentially.

 

[bryanl]

Here are recommendations from various spark plug manufacturers:

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/sh...k-Plugs-be-Installed-with-Anti-Seize-Compound

Autolite: We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Anti-seize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If anti seize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Anti seize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage.

AC/Delco: Do not use any type of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads. Doing this will decrease the amount of friction between the threads. The result of the lowered friction is that when the spark plug is torqued to the proper specification, the spark plug is turned too far into the cylinder head.

Champion: Once the shell is formed and threaded, it is zinc-plated to extend its life and reduce the chances of seizure in aluminum cylinder heads. Our latest technology combines Tin Tac" and ULTRASEAL'M coatings over the plating to further reduce corrosion and seizure. Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.

Denso: f a thread lubricant such as grease is coated on the thread, tightening to the recommended torque is tightening too much; this has been linked to seal leakage.
Do not use a thread lubricant.

NGK: It is recommended to use spark plugs with the special plating on all aluminum
cylinder head applications to prevent damage to the cylinder head. All NGK
Spark Plugs are manufactured with special shell plating on the metal body.
The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
manufactured with special metal shell plating

 

[Jimzz]

I still put a very small amount on the threads myself. Most plugs have a zinc coating but I don't want to take a chance it was not applied well or badly in one spot.

You can get a small packet from advance for like $1.50 near the counter. That's enough to do all the plugs and still have some left over.

 

[bruceb]

It looks like the new consenus is not to use it. If you must, put just a very tiny dab on the threads. As to starting the plugs, all you need is a small length of vacuum hose with the proper id to just fit snug on the plug insulator. Much less costly than buying something special, since you likely have this in your garage. Also be sure to put a dab of silicone grease on the plug boots. This keeps water out and makes it easier to remove in the future. Do not overtighten. Run them down by hand and if your engine has a torque value, use it. If not go about 1/4 turn or so past hand tight.

 

[Kenmitch]

I've never ever removed a factory spark plug that had anti-seize compound on it.

Of course I've seen people using it with some false sense of security about stripping the threads....I just tell them if you screw them in straight they don't strip!

 

[phucheneh]

It's really not needed. It's a good preventative measure on plugs that aren't plated, especially if they're going into aluminum.

I've had OEM plugs on some severely neglected Fords with the really short plug threads come out a little sketchy. Needing lots of force to remove, followed by frighteningly loose-fitting new plugs. But they've always seemed to have survived. New plugs tightened up normally.

Otherwise, I can't think of any major instances of dry factory plugs causing issues. Granted, if someone has already changed the plugs out before, and possibly already boogered up the threads a bit, anti-sieze may help. But I put in modern plated plugs dry and don't have issues.

The only reason for NOT using antisieze, according the manufacturers, is that it changes the torque spec. Solution: have common sense. And don't use torque specs for tightening plugs. People give me shit for this, but I stand behind the notion that is you feel the need to use a torque wrench for everything, you probably should not be working on cars. You also probably don't own a high-end, properly calibrated torque wrench.

Moreso that most other parts of your car, working on engines requires a deft touch. It takes a good while to build up that ability. I used to recommend short ratchets so that people be limited in the amount of torque they could generate. I've recently begun to feel otherwise, but I'm still kinda on the fence. Personally, I do better with the longer stuff- reason being, I am aware of the lack of mechanical advantage with small tools. So I'm more likely to try and crank on stuff and overdo it.

For plugs, I use the same ~16" ratchet I use on most everything. They just get a push past 'snug.' No major effort involved. If you use one of the common 8" ratchets found in a generic Craftsman or similar socket set, you need to put a little more ass behind it. And when people really start putting their weight into it...things start to break.

 

[jjsbasmt]

Very grateful to all of you for your input and experiences. bryanl, I did a lot of reading after I started the thread and found out the same view from plug manufactures and the auto companies, all pretty much recommend not to use since new plugs have a metallic compound on the threads to negate the use of anti-seize. I will torque the plugs to specs and call it a day. On a side note: The Advance Auto Parts store that I picked up the parts today is across the street from WyoTech and of course most of the attendants at the store are WyoTech students. You should have heard their recommendations on this subject. 4/5 say Yes to use. Once I mentioned what most of you said along with the plug manufactures and auto companies they agreed not to use.

 

[AMCRambler]

Aluminum heads, I use anti-seize. It doesn't hurt anything unless you over do it.

 

[silicon]

Aluminum heads, I use anti-seize. It doesn't hurt anything unless you over do it.

I agree...only the ham fisted will have problems.

 

[rsutoratosu]

my car says not to use it. over torque is the main reason.

 

[C1]

This comes up on autotalk radio show (Norm Lafave) quite frequently.

The advice is always to use anti-seize. It is the issue with steel and aluminum.

I know that with using anti-seize, I did experience the effect of a steel bolt taking out the threads on my Yamaha motorcycle and the words/advice of Norm Lafave echoed, so I always use it with steel into aluminum (and have never regretted it).

BTW, I dont recommend use of oil, unless that's all you have as it seems to be better than nothing. Use 3 in 1.

Ya, and as always with aluminum, dont over tighten.

 

[jjsbasmt]

Thanks to all of you - some really great thoughts posted here. Once again, I am very grateful to all of you for putting your experiences, thoughts and recommendations into words for me and everyone else to read.

 

[MongGrel]

Actually, with mixed metals like steel and aluminum it's probably not a bad idea IMHO.

I have MolyLube just laying around in general there.


This the same stuff I imagine, I've had a couple tubes for so many years it isn't even the same packaging.

http://www.belray.com/molylube-multipurpose-extreme-pressure-grease-moly

 

[tortillasoup]

Here are recommendations from various spark plug manufacturers:

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/sh...k-Plugs-be-Installed-with-Anti-Seize-Compound

Autolite: We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Anti-seize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If anti seize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Anti seize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage.

AC/Delco: Do not use any type of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads. Doing this will decrease the amount of friction between the threads. The result of the lowered friction is that when the spark plug is torqued to the proper specification, the spark plug is turned too far into the cylinder head.

Champion: Once the shell is formed and threaded, it is zinc-plated to extend its life and reduce the chances of seizure in aluminum cylinder heads. Our latest technology combines Tin Tac" and ULTRASEAL'M coatings over the plating to further reduce corrosion and seizure. Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.

Denso: f a thread lubricant such as grease is coated on the thread, tightening to the recommended torque is tightening too much; this has been linked to seal leakage.
Do not use a thread lubricant.

NGK: It is recommended to use spark plugs with the special plating on all aluminum
cylinder head applications to prevent damage to the cylinder head. All NGK
Spark Plugs are manufactured with special shell plating on the metal body.
The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
manufactured with special metal shell plating

good to see this... And to further the point, spark boot lubricant is also a horrible as well as I've seen that shit melt and basically glue the spark plug boot to the plug, making removal more difficult than necessary.

 

[tortillasoup]

It's really not needed. It's a good preventative measure on plugs that aren't plated, especially if they're going into aluminum.

I've had OEM plugs on some severely neglected Fords with the really short plug threads come out a little sketchy. Needing lots of force to remove, followed by frighteningly loose-fitting new plugs. But they've always seemed to have survived. New plugs tightened up normally.

Otherwise, I can't think of any major instances of dry factory plugs causing issues. Granted, if someone has already changed the plugs out before, and possibly already boogered up the threads a bit, anti-sieze may help. But I put in modern plated plugs dry and don't have issues.

The only reason for NOT using antisieze, according the manufacturers, is that it changes the torque spec. Solution: have common sense. And don't use torque specs for tightening plugs. People give me shit for this, but I stand behind the notion that is you feel the need to use a torque wrench for everything, you probably should not be working on cars. You also probably don't own a high-end, properly calibrated torque wrench.

Moreso that most other parts of your car, working on engines requires a deft touch. It takes a good while to build up that ability. I used to recommend short ratchets so that people be limited in the amount of torque they could generate. I've recently begun to feel otherwise, but I'm still kinda on the fence. Personally, I do better with the longer stuff- reason being, I am aware of the lack of mechanical advantage with small tools. So I'm more likely to try and crank on stuff and overdo it.

For plugs, I use the same ~16" ratchet I use on most everything. They just get a push past 'snug.' No major effort involved. If you use one of the common 8" ratchets found in a generic Craftsman or similar socket set, you need to put a little more ass behind it. And when people really start putting their weight into it...things start to break.

I disagree about the torque wrench stuff. I use a split beam torque wrench and obviously don't lubricate the threads of the plugs but when I torque down those plugs, I know for certain that no plug was under/over tightened. This whole I can torque plugs down w/o using a torque wrench thing really just encourages dumbasses to under/overtorque things, leading to either blown out plugs, stripped heads or stuck/broken plugs. Most of the time I spend is getting to the plugs and putting everything back, and not the time to torque down the plugs. Not using a torque wrench for spark plugs on an aluminum head is just pure laziness and asking for trouble. Most people here aren't master techs who have worked on the same vehicle dozens of times doing the same job so expecting people to perfectly gauge the torque they're doing on the plugs is stupid and elitist.

 

[JCH13]

good to see this... And to further the point, spark boot lubricant is also a horrible as well as I've seen that shit melt and basically glue the spark plug boot to the plug, making removal more difficult than necessary.

I imagine you used silicone-based dielectric grease with a silicone spark plug boot. Just like other... situations... silicone grease and silicone rubber don't get along.

I disagree about the torque wrench stuff. I use a split beam torque wrench and obviously don't lubricate the threads of the plugs but when I torque down those plugs, I know for certain that no plug was under/over tightened. This whole I can torque plugs down w/o using a torque wrench thing really just encourages dumbasses to under/overtorque things, leading to either blown out plugs, stripped heads or stuck/broken plugs. Most of the time I spend is getting to the plugs and putting everything back, and not the time to torque down the plugs. Not using a torque wrench for spark plugs on an aluminum head is just pure laziness and asking for trouble. Most people here aren't master techs who have worked on the same vehicle dozens of times doing the same job so expecting people to perfectly gauge the torque they're doing on the plugs is stupid and elitist.

I disagree with you. Spark plugs can be set very easily without a torque wrench. I ostensibly use this tightening practice: finger-tighten the plug, then give it between 15 and 90deg extra tightening, per the guide below. It's really easy to feel the plug go 'tight' if you're paying even a little attention. I use one hand, as close to ratcheting mechanism as possible, and torque as hard as I can with one hand without leaning and without overly-straining myself.