Anti-Gun, Anti-CCW Political Insider Stabbed to Death on DC Subway

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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
In this case, the perp that stabbed the "anti-gun, anti-CCW intern" is the one who brought knives into the debate.

Wait... you think those people (the victim and perpetrator) were having a debate about guns?

Interesting. Knowing that you see this all as life and death makes your side of things look a lot more logical. Flawed as all hell, but it's got a logic to it.

What color is your terror level today?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,659
136
I disagree that this represents fear of crime. The question was whether there is any place within a mile of home where one would be afraid to walk alone. That is quite different from fearing crime unless one is forced to walk there alone at night.

I would hope we both agree that saying "I'm afraid to walk near my house alone at night" is indicating a fear due to risk of crime.

If that's the case, if someone is saying "I'm afraid to walk near my house alone at night unless I have other people with me" I can't imagine how that's anything other than an expression of fear of crime.

Just to clarify, I have zero fear of being attacked by lions, yet I rarely eat lunch inside the zoo's lion exhibit. And by rarely, I mean never.

So I guess you have no fear of lions then, just a fear of eating lunch inside zoo lion exhibits. My suggestion would be to avoid Africa.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Wait... you think those people (the victim and perpetrator) were having a debate about guns?

Interesting. Knowing that you see this all as life and death makes your side of things look a lot more logical. Flawed as all hell, but it's got a logic to it.

What color is your terror level today?

You're missing my point. Not like this forum really needs an excuse to debate gun control, but the primary reason this thread exists is because someone went all stabby on a gun control supporter. That makes it an "Ironic News" story just as if someone who opposed pit bull ownership was instead killed and eaten by a rabid squirrel, when if the person owned a pit bull the dog might have defended them against said squirrel. The news story should have no bearing on whether we should pass laws banning pit bulls or whether someone is smart or an idiot to have one as a pet.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
That's because you don't understand math. (or you find a way to rationalize away inconvenient figures) The research is pretty solid: if you own a gun you are more likely to die than if you don't own a gun, even after controlling for a lot of factors.

I fully support your right to advocate for gun ownership for safety reasons, despite the best information saying that ownership does the opposite. I don't understand it, but I fully support it.

Research typically shows an association between gun ownership and a moderately increased risk of homicide, but it doesn't prove that gun ownership reduces safety. Every study I've read about the risk factors of owning firearms has ended with the comment that more research is needed, particularly into how often firearms are used for protection. It's impossible to perform a cost/benefit analysis when there's almost no credible research into the benefits.

One of the interesting aspects of gun risk studies is that the decedents are typically not murdered with their own guns. This suggests that the heightened risk of homicide is either from living with someone else who owns a gun (e.g. an abusive spouse), from associating with other violent gun owners, or from some other uncontrolled confounding factor. These studies also group all gun owners together; it's possible that the risk of homicide differs significantly across subgroups of gun owners (e.g. hunters, recreational shooters, concealed carriers, gang members).

In any case, epidemiological studies don't prove causation, and population-wide statistics don't apply to specific individuals, so it's not really accurate to say that "if you own a gun you are more likely to die." It's easily possible that some unknown, uncontrolled confounder is responsible for both an increased risk of homicide and an affinity for gun ownership.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Yet not that far away is the city of Stafford, where crime is much higher. Even though it's closer to where I work and there's nice affordable housing in gated communities I wouldn't live there due to the crime.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Stafford-Texas.html

Then let's look at Houston, you couldn't pay me to live within the beltway (Sam Houston Parkway). I wouldn't want to live inside the highway 6 corridor due to the crime within the radius.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Houston-Texas.html

There's nothing wrong with Houston that carrying a couple spare magazines can't mitigate. :biggrin:
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I would hope we both agree that saying "I'm afraid to walk near my house alone at night" is indicating a fear due to risk of crime.

If that's the case, if someone is saying "I'm afraid to walk near my house alone at night unless I have other people with me" I can't imagine how that's anything other than an expression of fear of crime.



So I guess you have no fear of lions then, just a fear of eating lunch inside zoo lion exhibits. My suggestion would be to avoid Africa.

There could be a lot of reasons people are afraid to walk alone at night in certain places. http://www.creepypasta.com/
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
50,659
136
Research typically shows an association between gun ownership and a moderately increased risk of homicide, but it doesn't prove that gun ownership reduces safety. Every study I've read about the risk factors of owning firearms has ended with the comment that more research is needed, particularly into how often firearms are used for protection. It's impossible to perform a cost/benefit analysis when there's almost no credible research into the benefits.

Research generally shows a modestly increased risk of homicide and a GREATLY increased risk of suicide. While it's true that there are tangential benefits outside of the alive/dead question, it's easily the most quantifiable.


And before people try to dispute including suicide with the 'if someone really wants to kill themselves they will find a way' argument, that is totally untrue. The majority of suicide attempts that fail are never repeated, and only about 10-15% of people who have failed in attempting suicide eventually die of it. The major difference in these often one-off events is whether or not you use a gun. If you do, you die about 90% of the time. If you don't, you die about 5%-10% of the time, depending on method.

When suicide is included, and it absolutely should be, the research strongly indicates that if your goal is to remain alive, owning a gun is not a good investment.

One of the interesting aspects of gun risk studies is that the decedents are typically not murdered with their own guns. This suggests that the heightened risk of homicide is either from living with someone else who owns a gun (e.g. an abusive spouse), from associating with other violent gun owners, or from some other uncontrolled confounding factor. These studies also group all gun owners together; it's possible that the risk of homicide differs significantly across subgroups of gun owners (e.g. hunters, recreational shooters, concealed carriers, gang members).

Sure, there are plenty of other possible confounds that can be hard to control for, some of which are more compelling than others. As I mentioned above though (and before in other threads), I find the homicide risk less important than the overwhelming suicide risk.

In any case, epidemiological studies don't prove causation, and population-wide statistics don't apply to specific individuals, so it's not really accurate to say that "if you own a gun you are more likely to die." It's easily possible that some unknown, uncontrolled confounder is responsible for both an increased risk of homicide and an affinity for gun ownership.

Studies linking smoking to cancer also don't prove causation, but we seem just fine with accepting them. The 'correlation <> causation' argument is not a convincing one, because no study proves causation. They simply provide evidence for or against it.

Also, of course population wide statistics don't apply to specific individuals, but since we're talking about people in general population wide statistics would be the only valid ones to use.