Anti-Foreign Sentiment & Hatred Blazes Across Europe Leaving Few Unblemished - Jews in Europe cannot lead a normal life

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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Jews in Europe cannot lead a normal life

4-22-2004: Court in 'racist' blow to Belgian far-righters

4-19-2004: Tolerance and Fear Collide in the Netherlands

4-6-2004: Voters in Slovenia overwhelmingly oppose restoring rights of 'Erased'

More than 18,000 mostly Bosnians, Croats and Serbs were officially erased from state records after Slovenia declared its independence in 1991. The move effectively made them non-persons in the eyes of the government.

In a referendum Sunday, 95 percent of the voters denied restoring the rights to the ethnic minorities.

3-27-2004: The new bill would mean that those born in this country of non-Danish parents would be forced to apply for citizenship and each would be examined on a case-by-case basis.

3-4-2004: Wave of anti-Muslim legislation in Europe has broad support

That's especially alarming given history, they say.

"We have seen this kind of thing before - policy against a single religion - in our history, and not so long ago," said Barbara John, Germany's recently retired commissioner for foreigners. "Many different people - from the left, from the right - are agreeing that we must draw a line somewhere regarding these Muslims. I would never say that this is the beginning of a new Holocaust. But this is how it starts."

3-3-2004: Immigrants Change Face of Old Europe

Multiethnic society does not come easily to Europe. Until recent reforms, Germany defined citizenship through ethnicity rather than birthplace or residency, leaving, say, German-born Turks without a true sense of belonging. France has long embraced a more inclusive notion of citizenship, but many French continue to distinguish between citizens of French stock (français de souche) and others.

This mind-set has contributed to widespread ethnic segregation, with minority communities in European countries regularly living in their own enclaves ? often impoverished and feeling like second-class citizens.

The resulting social strains have buoyed the political fortunes of Europe's anti-immigrant right.

...

However appealing the exclusionary impulse of the far right seems, Europeans cannot afford to close their doors to newcomers. Without immigration, the population of most European countries is poised to age and shrink. Europe's fertility rate is well below what's needed to keep the population at its current level. Today, there are 35 pensioners for every 100 workers within the European Union. By 2050, current demographic trends would leave Europe with 75 pensioners for every 100 workers, and in countries like Italy and Spain, the ratio would be 1 to 1.

Like it or not, Europe will have to turn to immigration for its economic survival.

...

European governments must also do a better job of combating prejudice and promoting tolerance among their majority populations. At stake is not just the viability of multiethnic community in Europe but also Europe's ability to remain one of the globe's centers of liberal democracy and economic vitality.

3-1-2004: Chinatown is a Hard Sell in Italy

City hall has laid down rules to limit Chinese commerce in Esquilino and make it less of an immigration magnet. Wholesale outlets, a main source of livelihood for the Chinese, are banned in the district.
...
"These rules are simply discriminatory. They apply only to Esquilino and only because of the Chinese," said Daniele Wong, an Italian-born Chinese activist who has mediated with city hall over the issue. "There's an atmosphere of yellow peril hysteria in Rome."
...
Chinese immigrants number about 60,000 nationwide, and no more than 10,000 in Rome -- the third-largest concentration after Milan and Prato, a leather-working center near Florence.

But the Chinese in Rome have made themselves more prominent than in other cities. They are settling downtown rather than dispersing to the cheap and distant suburbs, and they have decided to make Rome a center for distribution of Chinese imports, Chinese residents and Italian officials say.


2-29-2004: Anti-immigrant fever runs high
 

Yvo

Senior member
Jan 13, 2001
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I agree with the people's view. I lived in Holland for a number of years (and you may currently) but I know that the Dutch people fear being taken over by the Islam people. The Islam people take and take and take. They complain when they aren't getting enough money from the government and want the best housing, and materials in the house all for free. However the Dutch citizens have to work for their housing and materials. Violence is also up because these people DO NOT want to nationalize. In America that is okay but when you live in an European country nationalization is a must. You can't live in a country and kill sheep in the back of your yard because it is a sacrifice to your religion. That is simply just not right in a country in Europe. The Islam people might be nice but they are sure screwing over the Dutch government and its people and the government is finally waking up and doing something about it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by:CanOWorms

I can agree with some people's views & beliefs about immigration (such as how they want to limit illegal immigration), but some of these are crazy. They really should embrace others and reap the benefits.

What benefits?

 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Yvo
I agree with the people's view. I lived in Holland for a number of years (and you may currently) but I know that the Dutch people fear being taken over by the Islam people. The Islam people take and take and take. They complain when they aren't getting enough money from the government and want the best housing, and materials in the house all for free. However the Dutch citizens have to work for their housing and materials. Violence is also up because these people DO NOT want to nationalize. In America that is okay but when you live in an European country nationalization is a must. You can't live in a country and kill sheep in the back of your yard because it is a sacrifice to your religion. That is simply just not right in a country in Europe. The Islam people might be nice but they are sure screwing over the Dutch government and its people and the government is finally waking up and doing something about it.

The Islam people? :confused: That's a strange way to put it.

They want to build a mosque and people are going crazy. It seems that no matter what they do, they'll be persecuted. People need to change their overall opinions and views.

What exactly do you mean by nationalize them? Like the article says, it sounds like you want to bleach their skin, blonde hair, etc.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by:CanOWorms

I can agree with some people's views & beliefs about immigration (such as how they want to limit illegal immigration), but some of these are crazy. They really should embrace others and reap the benefits.

What benefits?

Here's one: If it weren't for student immigrants, our engineering & science schools (especially graduate level) would be half-empty. They help us keep our technological edge in the world.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".

They still have a large brain drain and settle here. The typical immigrant doesn't come here to be educated in IT (I'm assuming you're talking about IT jobs). IT isn't a high-tech field that does research to keeps our technological edge. Even working as a graduate student for peanuts is a lot.
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by:CanOWorms

I can agree with some people's views & beliefs about immigration (such as how they want to limit illegal immigration), but some of these are crazy. They really should embrace others and reap the benefits.

What benefits?

Here's one: If it weren't for student immigrants, our engineering & science schools (especially graduate level) would be half-empty. They help us keep our technological edge in the world.


it's like a cheap mantra you keep repeating in every thread about immigration

the USA, who welcomes ALL immigrants (yeah right
rolleye.gif
) and the racist Europeans

there was a nice thread in P&N a while ago about the treatment of illegal immigrants in the USA (standard procedure = jail) but of course you never bothered to post in that one.

anyway, keep on spewing your own hatred against Europeans

some example CanOworms statements from other threads

-Yep, that's what I'm saying. Them (Europeans) with their animal rape, pillaging of the world, etc. All insignificant compared to anything else.

-Yep, so do European priests. That was a worldwide problem with European roots. (Canoworms implying that abuse of children is something with European roots - I guess it's something in or genes - together with the "I'm racist gene we also have the "hump the children gene

Please... they cast away their morals a long time ago. Europeans try to pretend they're morally superior, but they're the most despicable people. -

yip, he's preaching tolerance to Europeans but seems to have a problem with Europeans

the irony of it
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by:CanOWorms

I can agree with some people's views & beliefs about immigration (such as how they want to limit illegal immigration), but some of these are crazy. They really should embrace others and reap the benefits.

What benefits?

Here's one: If it weren't for student immigrants, our engineering & science schools (especially graduate level) would be half-empty. They help us keep our technological edge in the world.


it's like a cheap mantra you keep repeating in every thread about immigration

the USA, who welcomes ALL immigrants (yeah right
rolleye.gif
) and the racist Europeans

there was a nice thread in P&N a while ago about the treatment of illegal immigrants in the USA (standard procedure = jail) but of course you never bothered to post in that one.

anyway, keep on spewing your own hatred against Europeans

some example CanOworms statements from other thread

-Yep, that's what I'm saying. Them (Europeans) with their animal rape, pillaging of the world, etc. All insignificant compared to anything else.

-Yep, so do European priests. That was a worldwide problem with European roots. (Canoworms implying that abuse of children is something with European roots - I guess it's something in or genes - together with the "I'm racist gene we also have the "hump the children gene

Please... they cast away their morals a long time ago. Europeans try to pretend they're morally superior, but they're the most despicable people. -

yip, he's preaching tolerance to Europeans but seems to have a problem with Europeans

the irony of it

But it's true. A very large percentage (close to 50) of our graduate schools in engineering are international students. I know that you probably believe that they are all criminals and thugs and not capable of intelligence.

Never say anything about the status of immigrants in Europe because you believe in their oppression. Just attack the poster, some random US info (I never said that the US is some sort of blissful place, I said it has its problems), etc.

Then you take my comments out of context. So, I guess I'll do the same to you: You admitted you were a racist in a previous thread. And then you called me a donkey presumably because I'm not a white European and so you don't care what I say (see my sig).

Get your troll behavior out of here. This is a thread about the article I posted. Feel free to post another thread about the topic and the US. It's not about me and your egotistical self.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
it'll probably be on some minor scale here with the mexican american community. the difference of course, is mexicans are catholic, we don't have a welfare state, and our culture changes them. or some might say we have no culture ;) plus they've lived here since the nation was born, so not really a big deal.

anyway europe is in deep doodoo.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
I think one of the most strange things in the article is this:

Also being discussed is a ban to stop Dutch residents under age 24 from bringing foreign spouses into the country.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Freegeeks, if you have any thoughts on the CURRENT thread, I'd be interested to get your point of view. Frankly, I'm not interested in your rehashing old threads. Not relevant.
For instance, do you deny the story CoW linked to? Do you deny there is a powerful anti-immigrant undercurrent in Europe?
Your thoughts on immigrants in the U.S. might be a good subject for your own thread.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".

You are EXTREMELY misinformed. First of all, 99% of Indians that come to this country already excelled in undergraduate studies. They come here for Masters, and 99% STAY HERE, and I might add, most likely make more money than any other ethnic group, and are usually in the highest TAX bracket. The creme de la creme are IIT graduates, which the govt of India pays for, almost entirely. Then they come to the U.S. with those skills and Americans get the better end of the deal. The jobs that are going overseas are relatively brainless level 1 tech support or credit card, information, etc. lines. Not of the same caliber as the immigrants that come to this country. b) Please do NOT MIX up Muslims and Indians. Sure you can be Indian Muslim, but they shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.

edit: and to clarify, the Indians that do Call center jobs probably never stepped a foot in the U.S., let alone attend college.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
so about fifty years ago europe was vastly anti-jewish, now they're swinging towards anti-muslim? hope history doesn't repeat itself in cycles, would suck if that milosevic fellow got off scot free.

what was the country that made sure every citizen had an assualt rifle and also knew how to use it (yearly required training)? i'm pretty sure it was sweden. would be awful to have that plan backfire
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".

You are EXTREMELY misinformed. First of all, 99% of Indians that come to this country already excelled in undergraduate studies. They come here for Masters, and 99% STAY HERE, and I might add, most likely make more money than any other ethnic group, and are usually in the highest TAX bracket. The creme de la creme are IIT graduates, which the govt of India pays for, almost entirely. Then they come to the U.S. with those skills and Americans get the better end of the deal. The jobs that are going overseas are relatively brainless level 1 tech support or credit card, information, etc. lines. Not of the same caliber as the immigrants that come to this country. b) Please do NOT MIX up Muslims and Indians. Sure you can be Indian Muslim, but they shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.

edit: and to clarify, the Indians that do Call center jobs probably never stepped a foot in the U.S., let alone attend college.

wtf... your last line (before the edit) is disturbing. It's the type of attitude I'm talking about.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
so about fifty years ago europe was vastly anti-jewish, now they're swinging towards anti-muslim? hope history doesn't repeat itself in cycles, would suck if that milosevic fellow got off scot free.

what was the country that made sure every citizen had an assualt rifle and also knew how to use it (yearly required training)? i'm pretty sure it was sweden. would be awful to have that plan backfire

Switzerland?

The latest to explode onto the scene is Switzerland's People's party, headed by German-speaking billionaire Christoph Blocher, which won the most votes in elections last October and is part of a coalition government.

Its anti-immigrant campaign includes posters showing a black face with the slogan: "The Swiss are becoming Negroes." Another poster shows mug shots of criminals next to the words: "Our Dear Foreigners."
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
so about fifty years ago europe was vastly anti-jewish, now they're swinging towards anti-muslim? hope history doesn't repeat itself in cycles, would suck if that milosevic fellow got off scot free.

what was the country that made sure every citizen had an assualt rifle and also knew how to use it (yearly required training)? i'm pretty sure it was sweden. would be awful to have that plan backfire

Many europeans are still anti-Jewish. In any case, maybe the dutch are just a bit concerned about what they have seen in other european countries, like what the Albanians are doing. Albanians will tend to move into a neighborhood in eastern europe, bring drugs, prostitution, and racketeering, and then start problems and create friction with the native people. A human rights worker admitted this phenonmenon to me. Many people even believe that Muslims CANNOT by nature co-exist peacefully with others once their numbers become close to 50 pct or a majority. Per capita, there are pobably more Muslims in England. Go to England and see just how openly they denounce America and the west.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".

You are EXTREMELY misinformed. First of all, 99% of Indians that come to this country already excelled in undergraduate studies. They come here for Masters, and 99% STAY HERE, and I might add, most likely make more money than any other ethnic group, and are usually in the highest TAX bracket. The creme de la creme are IIT graduates, which the govt of India pays for, almost entirely. Then they come to the U.S. with those skills and Americans get the better end of the deal. The jobs that are going overseas are relatively brainless level 1 tech support or credit card, information, etc. lines. Not of the same caliber as the immigrants that come to this country. b) Please do NOT MIX up Muslims and Indians. Sure you can be Indian Muslim, but they shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.

edit: and to clarify, the Indians that do Call center jobs probably never stepped a foot in the U.S., let alone attend college.

wtf... your last line (before the edit) is disturbing. It's the type of attitude I'm talking about.

I am referring to those Muslims, as in context with this thread, those that do not give an inch. and take take take. They exist, there is no doubt. I did not mean this for Muslims that do not engage in that behaviour.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
I never referred to Muslims in ANY sentence in this thread. Please explain WTF you are talking about. And when making the claim I am misinformed (I never made any definitive statement one way or the other in this thread) I want links to reputable Sites verifying your 99% number....


Read up, educate yourself

In fact, India has recently surpassed China as the leading overseas place of origin for students in the United States. In academic year 2001/02, there were 66,836 students from India studying in the United States (up 22.3% percent from the previous year). Indians are studying in colleges and universities all over the United States, and are acquiring knowledge and skills that they plan to bring back with them to India to benefit themselves, their families and communities, and their country.

Where once Indian academics and officials bemoaned the brain drain -- the loss of their most talented young minds to the United States and Europe -- now they are seeing much of that talent coming home, or not going abroad in the first place.

Misinformed?
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Americans are routinely pilloried for being intolerant. Meanwhile the Europeans seem to be the most vile bunch of bigots on the planet. Nothing new here.


They help us keep our technological edge in the world.

Hmmm, bad logic alert. Indian comes to U.S., gets education, returns to India, ends up with job formerly done by higher paid American? And yet this "helps us keep our technological edge around the World".

You are EXTREMELY misinformed. First of all, 99% of Indians that come to this country already excelled in undergraduate studies. They come here for Masters, and 99% STAY HERE, and I might add, most likely make more money than any other ethnic group, and are usually in the highest TAX bracket. The creme de la creme are IIT graduates, which the govt of India pays for, almost entirely. Then they come to the U.S. with those skills and Americans get the better end of the deal. The jobs that are going overseas are relatively brainless level 1 tech support or credit card, information, etc. lines. Not of the same caliber as the immigrants that come to this country. b) Please do NOT MIX up Muslims and Indians. Sure you can be Indian Muslim, but they shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.

edit: and to clarify, the Indians that do Call center jobs probably never stepped a foot in the U.S., let alone attend college.

wtf... your last line (before the edit) is disturbing. It's the type of attitude I'm talking about.

I am referring to those Muslims, as in context with this thread, those that do not give an inch. and take take take. They exist, there is no doubt. I did not mean this for Muslims that do not engage in that behaviour.

I thought you meant you couldn't be an Indian and Muslim.

Anyways, every group obviously has some troublemakers. I'm not saying the immigrants are perfect or anything. I can understand only wanting legal immigration, but to blame multiculturalism or whatever for all bad things is strange. Seems like they're just looking for scapegoats, and it seems that it would be harder and harder for these people to flourish there.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: arsbanned
I never referred to Muslims in ANY sentence in this thread. Please explain WTF you are talking about. And when making the claim I am misinformed (I never made any definitive statement one way or the other in this thread) I want links to reputable Sites verifying your 99% number....


Read up, educate yourself

In fact, India has recently surpassed China as the leading overseas place of origin for students in the United States. In academic year 2001/02, there were 66,836 students from India studying in the United States (up 22.3% percent from the previous year). Indians are studying in colleges and universities all over the United States, and are acquiring knowledge and skills that they plan to bring back with them to India to benefit themselves, their families and communities, and their country.

I think he's exaggerating, but the US does appreciate a brain drain from Europe, Asia, etc. It has slowed down a bit in recent years, but it's still strong.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Here's another article with interesting (and sad) info:

The Netherlands has seen a shift in attitudes, with multiculturalism blamed for a host of ills.

EVERY morning Talin, an Iranian, waits for the letter she had hoped never to see. A doctor with a husband and a six-month-old baby, she has lived in Rotterdam for seven years with her parents and grandmother. But this week the Dutch Government passed a law ordering 26,000 failed asylum-seekers, herself among them, to return home, no excuses accepted.

I cant sleep. They say I must go back to our country, but it is not possible because we are political refugees, she said in a quiet, desperate voice. The Government admitted it cannot guarantee my life if I go back. I just dont know what I can do.

She and her husband fled Iran in 1997, but they will have just eight weeks to leave, from the time the letter arrives, or they will be sent to a camp from which they will be forcibly deported.

Her friend, Farideh, who arrived from Iran in 1996 with four young children, is also about to be sent back, even though her children are now more Dutch than Iranian. I am really worried for my children, she said. They grew up with freedom of thought and speech. They could not go back to Iran, they would be arrested for having bad thoughts.

Just across the street from their place of employment, where they help other immigrants to integrate into Dutch society, is the former home of Pim Fortuyn, the anti-immigration campaigner whose murder two years ago by a left-wing activist sparked the political upheaval that is about to ruin their lives. I cant understand. How can you do this to a human being? It is not democracy, said Talin.

Unfortunately for her, however, it is. Despite a storm of protests, the law was approved by Parliament and is backed by most Dutch people.

Outside Fortuyns house stands a life-sized statue of him, surrounded by fresh floral tributes. In two short years, Europes traditional home of liberalism has turned itself into a cauldron of conservatism. The murder of Fortuyn, who declared that the Netherlands was full and that Islam was a backward religion, broke the taboo on speaking out against immigration and a host of other social issues. As liberal pieties crumbled, the Netherlands has been forging ahead with a new right-wing agenda.

It now has the toughest immigration laws in Europe, and has been adopting powerful law-and-order policies. A compulsory ID card is being introduced for everyone over the age of 12. Cannabis cafés are being closed by the hundreds. Prostitutes are being cleared off the streets, the generous benefits system severely curtailed, and even free contraception has been abolished for everyone except teenagers. Longer sentences mean prisons are so full that for the first time inmates are being forced to share cells.

Such is the seismic shift in the political landscape that even left-wing politicians often support the new politics. When a government commission declared last month that multiculturalism in the Netherlands had been a failure despite some successes, it was condemned from Left and Right for being too positive.

Peter van Heemst, a socialist MP from Rotterdam, said: People are fed up with crime, fed up with the influx of immigrants. The pendulum is swinging completely to the other side of the spectrum, but thats the result of ignoring peoples concerns for so long.

Michiel van Hulten, a Labour MEP, said: There is a reactionary movement sweeping the country. There is a growing feeling that the permissive society of the 1970s and 1980s got out of control. There is a feeling that society got the balance wrong between rights and responsibilities. Rotterdam, where nearly half the population are impoverished ethnic minorities, is at the forefront of the political shift.

The Leefbar Rotterdam party, of which Fortuyn was a member, controls the city council. Surrounded by pictures of the murdered populist in his office in the grandiose Gothic town hall, the party leader, Ronald Sorensen, the grandson of Norwegian immigrants, said: The only thing that Pim Fortuyn did was produce an intellectual argument for what everyone was thinking.

We are trying to be more honest. Before people just turned a blind eye, but not any more. It is the death of political correctness.

The change hits you when you arrive at Centraal Station in Rotterdam. It used to throng with drunks, beggars and drug dealers. People stopped using the trains because it was a jungle, van Heemst said. Now, Centraal Station is almost Swiss in its cleanliness and safety. Police officers wander around, moving people on if they are loitering suspiciously. Pick-pocketing is down 70 per cent, boasts Huub Veeneman, a police official. A tourist came back after a few years and asked us what had happened, it had changed so much.

Young men causing a nuisance on mopeds now get their mopeds confiscated if convicted of two offences. Judges are handing out six years in prison where they used to give two. Police are going through neighbourhood after neighbourhood sweeping prostitutes and drug dealers off the streets. People with large houses and expensive cars must now prove that their money came from legitimate sources.

We always used to protect the villains. Now it is victims first, Mr Sorenson said.

Rotterdams zero tolerance policies are being copied across The Netherlands. Anyone causing trouble is automatically ejected from cinemas, swimming pools and buses. In Amsterdam, the number of cannabis cafés is down from 2,000 to 700.

Arjan Roskam, the leader of the Union of Cannabis Retailers, said: Each coffee shop gets raided by police a lot, looking for any evidence to close you down. If any hard drugs are found, you are closed down instantly.

But it is in the area of immigration and integration that the Netherlands - and Rotterdam in particular - are generating most of the controversy arises. Welfare recipients, however long they have been in the country, will now have their benefits cut if they do not learn Dutch. New immigrants have to learn Dutch within a year of arriving, and the Government is planning to demand that any non-EU immigrants learn Dutch before being allowed to enter.

Asylum-seekers receive an initial screening, and no- hopers are deported within 48 hours. To curb Islamic arranged marriages, Dutch residents under 24 are no longer allowed to bring spouses into the country.

Rotterdam recently declared that it would accept no new asylum-seekers for five years, and that only people on good incomes could move to the city. The council is demolishing social housing for people on benefits and building executive flats in their place. We have too much poverty and high unemployment. We want a five-year break so we can solve housing problems. If there are smaller communities of immigrants they will have to mingle with the Dutch more, Mr Sorenson said.

In the Grote Visserijstraat Market, where most customers are members of ethnic minorities, a Dutch cheese seller called Bob welcomed the new policies. Its good not to have too many foreigners now. There are so many of them. When there are a lot of them, you cant integrate people.

Pieter, a young Dutch vegetable seller, said: This used to be a rich country with no social problems and no crime. Now, because of the socialism, it has become full of social, ethnic and political problems.

But Mustafa, a Turk who came to the Netherlands aged three and now runs a clothes stall, said: It is good for the Dutch, but not good for the immigrants. What will happen in ten years? Where will it stop? Will they say next year they don?t want any black people?? For many, the expulsion of 26,000 failed asylum-seekers, many of them well settled, is a step too far. Eric Dykhuyzen, director of Bureau Mederlands, where Talin and Farideh work, is deeply alarmed at the direction his country has taken. What the Government wants is integration, but what they are doing means integration is stopped. The communities are growing apart from each other. The Islamic communities dont feel welcome any more and are becoming defensive, but also aggressive.

Mr van Heemst recognises the need for change, but worries about where it will end. A silent revolution is going on. All types of authority are taking back responsibility for problems. It has been neglected for 25 years; it will take 15 years to get it back again. There is a big change going on, but it is very uncertain what the outcome will be.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
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Originally posted by: arsbanned
I never referred to Muslims in ANY sentence in this thread. Please explain WTF you are talking about. And when making the claim I am misinformed (I never made any definitive statement one way or the other in this thread) I want links to reputable Sites verifying your 99% number....


Read up, educate yourself

In fact, India has recently surpassed China as the leading overseas place of origin for students in the United States. In academic year 2001/02, there were 66,836 students from India studying in the United States (up 22.3% percent from the previous year). Indians are studying in colleges and universities all over the United States, and are acquiring knowledge and skills that they plan to bring back with them to India to benefit themselves, their families and communities, and their country.


Excuse me, that lame ass post only answers HALF the story. Yes, Indians are now the number 1 in terms of population students that come here to study. NO SH.T. But THEY DON'T GO BACK. THEY STAY HERE. And they pay more than you most probably in the form of taxes so you can have a nice road to drive on. Whether they PLAN to go back or not, they don't do it.


and the VERY, VERY recent phenonmen where maybe 1% actually go back just started. we'll have to see what happens. But up until maybe 2003 and above, almost none of the Indians went back.
 

arsbanned

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Dec 12, 2003
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Read the REST OF THE QUOTE DUMBAS*

ALso, here's more for your pea brain to (try) to absorb:

Where once Indian academics and officials bemoaned the brain drain -- the loss of their most talented young minds to the United States and Europe -- now they are seeing much of that talent coming home, or not going abroad in the first place.

Yeah, that's right, uh huh....
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
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Originally posted by: arsbanned
Read the REST OF THE QUOTE DUMBAS*

i beat you by 1 minute. :D

arsbanned: that article is really not representative of whats going on. ask an indian guy you know what percent of those that come here actually go back. In reality, the fact is VERY VERY few go back. sure i was speaking out of my arse when i say 99%, but really speaking, its definitely more than 85% i can say that for sure.

They all *think* they will go back. many are nostalgic for back home, but whatever happens, they end up here. their children start school, and they don't want to change the environment, they bought a nice house, they made too many friends, the roads are so nice here, the hospitals are good, there are plenty of Indian things to do here now... these are all excuses. They never go back in reality - well, maybe when they retire, but in that case they don't do anything productive for india in any case.