Antec TruePower 550... not enough power?

[Texun]

After reading through this thread I would guess that my True Power 430 has never broken a sweat. It's quiet, too!

XP2400, 1 gig DDR, WD 80g JB, CDR, CDRW, PCI sound and NIC, 3 fans (1-92mm and 2-80mm). Maybe it's an overkill but I'm okay with that. I spent $140 on other PS's that were cheap and failed after a few months.

My advice: Do it with a good Antec and it stays done.

 

[Curley]

Originally posted by: oldfart
People go so overkill on PS wattage. I run:

P4 2.6C @ 3.34 GHz
1 Gig or Corsair ram
Radeon 9700 Pro
120 Gig HD
DVD
DVD-RW
Sound
Nic
Firewire

With an Antec True330.

oldfart, the Antec True 330 is nothing to ignore. It has more power than most 450Watt power supplies.

 

[Sid59]

550 is not enough .. need 1 gigwatt.

 

[doan]

The amp specs on the HD's are worst case...they only even get close to the spec when starting up.

 

[PrinceXizor]

Point One - No one can tell you what you are mistaken in without a complete list of how you came up with your amperages for each of your lines.

Point Two - All of you components will rarely, if ever, be all at full load, all at the same time.

Point Three - If point two comes into play AND you are close to your maximum output wattage, good PSU's are rated for overcurrent draw for a set period of time (usually 1-2 minutes).

Point Four - The P = V * I calculation is based on a 100% resistive load. I do not understand the finer points of this concept (EE is not my field of study), but various capacitive and inductive loads can vary the true power dissipation relative to the generic P = V * I calculation.

Point Five - This last point is my opinion, but your 10A estimate for your processor is too high, even when trying to "play it safe".

Point Six - Depending upon your degree of technical skill, available tools and safety precautions, you could try reading the actual loads off of each line in your PSU under normal operation as a point of reference. NOT TO BE RECOMMENDED if you feel uncomfortable at all doing this or lack the necessary skills and/or experience to do this properly.

P-X

 

[zephyrprime]

I've made a break down of the power consumption of your rig listed in your sig.

__________________________________________________3.3V_____5V_________12V

2400+_____________________________________________0________0__________7.1
800jb_____________________________________________0________0.675_______0.9
800bb_____________________________________________0________0.675_______0.9
1800jb____________________________________________0________0.725_______0.675
IBM_Ultrastar_36Z15_(average_during_100%_seeks)_______0________0.7_________1

2_256MB_ddr333_dimms
Samsung_512x8_chips
assuming_1_is_being_read_and_1_isn't
and_4way_interleave
(couldn't_find_figures_for_ddr400)"______________________0________3.93_______0
ti4200_-_assume_30watts_____________________________9.09_____0__________0
DVD-rom___________________________________________0________1.2________1.1
CDRW_____________________________________________0________1.2________0.8
sound_card________________________________________0.5_______0.5________0
scsi_card_(not_sure_-_using_figures_from
http://www.sun.com/products/networking
/cpci/combo/specs.html)"______________________________0.24______1.15_______0.01
FBA09A12H1AZ______________________________________0________0__________0.225
11_generic_fans_____________________________________0________0__________2.75

SUM______________________________________________9.83______10.755_____15.48



So this doesn't include MB power consumption or voltage regulator or DC/DC convertors or anything like that.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Pariah

I want to know if I'm reading something wrong or not taking something into consideration.

Without posting the breakdown, no one has any idea what you are reading in order to draw any conclusion. Even without seeing the numbers, there is absolutely no need for a 550W PSU for your system. I have 6 drives on an Antec 330W including a 10k and 15k drive along with a 9700Pro and all voltage readings are within spec using the Intel MB monitor.

I'll post my specs tomorrow, right now I have to go to bed.

 

[Ilmater]

Alright, here are the specs I had used for my evaluation. When I say actuals, I mean I looked them up.:

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3.3V _ _ 5V _ _ 12V
Motherboard _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3A _ _ 2A _ _ .3A
Fans (some actuals) _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ 0A _ _ 2.39A
Memory (actuals) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ 6A _ _ 0A
Video _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3A _ _ 0A _ _ 0A
Sound _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .5A _ _ .5A _ _ 0A
Hard Drive - SCSI (actuals) _ _ _ 0A _ _ 1A _ _ 2.5A
Hard Drive - IDE (actuals) _ _ _ 0A _ _ 1.65A _ 5.7A
CD-RW (actuals) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ 1.5A _ 1.5A
DVD-ROM _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ 1.5A _ 1.5A
Floppy _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ .8A _ _ 0A
KB & Mouse _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ .75A _ 0A
Processor _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 0A _ _ 10A _ _ 0A

Totals _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 6.5A _ _ 15.7A _ 23.89A

You're all more than welcome to count them yourself. On the fans, I forgot two more fans (NB and GPU) so that brings the total to 11, as the website specifically says to include the fans on the PSU. The memory number I got directly from Corsair, so I know it's right. As far as the processor goes, look at the original numbers for a 2600+. It's ~7.5. Now I don't currently have my CPU as high as I would like it, and I've got another 1700+ on my desk that I'm throwing in in the next couple of days. I expect it to do about 2.4GHz+ on about a 1.7 - 1.75 Vcore. Considering that I'm upping the voltage and the clock (stock on a 2600+ when that article was done was 2.133GHz @ 1.6V), I think that 10, while conservative, is reasonable.

EDIT: I got the actuals for all but two of those fans, and that load came down some. Still, altogether, my 3.3V and 5V lines add up to 99.95W, and the combined wattage comes to 386.63. Considering that most of the components, admittedly, won't use most of their power except right at boot, I would assume that the overload protection would protect it from blowing. However, I will stick to the fact that the Antec's 12V rail could be much higher.

 

[RanDum72]

I'm saying that according to the specs of these devices and the rated output of my current PSU, I should be running very close to its maximum load.

Maybe you should rephrase that to 'theoretical' maximum load. You should reach it IF all your devices are running at max AT THE SAME TIME. So in this scenario, all harrdrives are reading/writing, CD-ROM drives are spinning at max speed reading data, the floppy is also reading/writing and the video card is running some 3D mark loops....Oh and the sound card is busy decoding EAX...Do you think you will encounter this situation in the real world? Highly unlikely.

Ultimately the real test would be how the PSU performs in actual use. If the Antec 550w (or even your Enermax) cannot run your system reliably, then its time to think of it as a problem. But until then, I don't see where the problem is.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: RanDum72

I'm saying that according to the specs of these devices and the rated output of my current PSU, I should be running very close to its maximum load.

Maybe you should rephrase that to 'theoretical' maximum load. You should reach it IF all your devices are running at max AT THE SAME TIME. So in this scenario, all harrdrives are reading/writing, CD-ROM drives are spinning at max speed reading data, the floppy is also reading/writing and the video card is running some 3D mark loops....Oh and the sound card is busy decoding EAX...Do you think you will encounter this situation in the real world? Highly unlikely.

Ultimately the real test would be how the PSU performs in actual use. If the Antec 550w (or even your Enermax) cannot run your system reliably, then its time to think of it as a problem. But until then, I don't see where the problem is.

I understand what you're saying, but at startup, almost all of these devices ARE pulling their max loads. This causes a problem for someone like me that wants to overclock. If my machine won't boot because my proc can't handle it, then I understand. However, if my machine won't boot because my PSU can't handle my overclock, that's another matter.

 

[ElFenix]

how many harddrives do you have? i can't imagine, even with 11 fans (jeez dude its time to cut down) and 3 hard drives and whatnot that you're even sweating that 550.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
how many harddrives do you have? i can't imagine, even with 11 fans (jeez dude its time to cut down) and 3 hard drives and whatnot that you're even sweating that 550.

I've tried to cut back, but I'm a bit addicted. I understand that with 11 fans and 4 hard drives I shouldn't be sweating it at 550W, but the specs would indicate that I might.

 

[Whitedog]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
I was looking extensively into whether or not my power supply was giving my system enough power when I came to this site. It goes over the power consumption (in amps) of many popular devices. I added up everything and came up with 6.5A on the 3.3V rail, 15.7A on the 5V rail, and 25.5A on the 12V rail. The load on the 12V rail comes from 4 hard drives (1 SCSI, 3 IDE) that I found exact specs for, 9 case fans, a CDRW and DVD-ROM drive that I found exact specs for, a small (0.3A) draw from the motherboard according to FiringSquad's recommendations, and 10A from my CPU. Now I fully understand that the 10A from an overclocked 1700+ is more than neccessary, but as I'm upping the clock and voltage (the two things that have a direct impact on amp draw), I wanted to be absolutely sure I had enough power to be fully stable. I didn't want there to be any question whether or not my power supply was my bottleneck.

I currently have an Enermax EG465AX-VE(W) FCA powersupply. The output capacities are 38, 44, and 33A on the 3.3, 5, and 12V rails, respectively. This was easily enough to take care of my needs, even with the 3.3V and 5V rails coming from the same source (and thus having 220W of available power, total). I had been looking at Antec as an alternative because of their obvious reputation for having the best power supplies. However, upon looking at their specs, I found that the max load on Antec's top-of-the-line 550W TruePower PSU was only 24A on the 12V rail. Now, admittedly, I have more hard drives than most, but I still think this unacceptable from a 530W PSU.

With all the hooplah surrounding Antec's TruePower series, I really expected more. Am I missing something? Here are the links to the specs on Enermax's EG465AX-VE(W) FCA 435W model and Antec's 530W TruePower550 model.

You've got something wrong somewhere... No way do those components add up to that much power consumption.

 

[Whitedog]

Those calculations on that website are not typical at all. High Performance HD 2A @12v? typical hard drive pulls about 750-900mA on the 12v side..

And no way does your 1700+ consume 120 watts. (watts = volts x amps) (amps = watts / volts)
I would guess maybe around 75 watts tops (6.25A)?

 

[PrinceXizor]

Both you an Z claim to be using "actual" numbers, yet your amperage is 4.7A higher than his on the hard drives. Factor in that and at least 2A too much for your processor (your target OC is 2400+ @ ~ 7.1A + a generous .9A for the vcore bump ~ 8A) and throw in a and there's 6.7A, putting you at ~ 17A on the 12V line.

P-X

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Both you an Z claim to be using "actual" numbers, yet your amperage is 4.7A higher than his on the hard drives. Factor in that and at least 2A too much for your processor (your target OC is 2400+ @ ~ 7.1A + a generous .9A for the vcore bump ~ 8A) and throw in a and there's 6.7A, putting you at ~ 17A on the 12V line.

P-X

My target isn't a 2400+, it's 2.4GHz.

 

[RanDum72]

I understand what you're saying, but at startup, almost all of these devices ARE pulling their max loads

Not quite. A CD-ROM, floppy does not spin and read/write at max when booting up. The video card does not do complex graphics at start-up. The harddrives initialize but they do not do full-bore read/write and seek compared to what they do when, for example, defragging(probably except for the boot drive). And as someone lese mentioned, your amp ratings for the harddrives are way high. Maybe those ratings are for a 15k RPM SCSI drives(although I don't think they evenreach that high of a current draw)?

As for booting up when OC'ing, there a lot more factors involved than just the PSU. The CPU, memory, motherboard, cooling, they all have limits. They are the ones to check first before I'll go check a 550watt TruePower PSU...

 

[Pariah]

Using maximum theoretical load is not an accurate way of calculating power consumption because it will never happen for all devices at once, not even at bootup. Here is the quick and dirty on parts of my system for the 12V only:

2X 1900+: 14A
HD's: 11.4A

Total: 25.4A

Antec 430 12V: 20A

Obviously something doesn't add up there, the CPU's and HD's by themselves exceed my PS's rating by 25% without adding in the 7 case fans or anything else. Totaling everything would so ridiculously overload the PSU rating that it wouldn't even attempt to boot. I'd recommend using the common sense and real world examples method of calculating PS needs, not some ghettofied component consumption addition.

The harddrives initialize but they do not do full-bore read/write and seek compared to what they do when, for example, defragging(probably except for the boot drive).

The biggest power draw for hard drives is spin up, which occurs for all of them at boot up. Some boards and SCSI cards allow you to delay hard drive spinup to reduce the load on the PSU.

 

[PrinceXizor]

I don't think each harddrive spins up at the same time on boot-up (could be mistaken). Doesn't each one spin up as they are initialized by the IDE (or SCSI) controller? This would give you a sequential power draw that would never equal the full spin-up load of all your drives at once. Have you considered firing off an e-mail to both Enermax and Antec to see what they say? It would be interesting to see there opinions on the 12V line.

P-X

 

[Pariah]

Depends on the system and the setup. By default, I would say it is not staggered. I can hear my hard drives spin up at boot, and they aren't staggered.

 

[Ilmater]

The harddrives initialize but they do not do full-bore read/write and seek compared to what they do when, for example, defragging(probably except for the boot drive).

The biggest power draw for hard drives is spin up, which occurs for all of them at boot up. Some boards and SCSI cards allow you to delay hard drive spinup to reduce the load on the PSU.[/quote]
That's what I thought.

I will probably shoot them (Antec and Enermax) an e-mail and see what they say.

 

[Pariah]

You're still wrong on all the other parts. CPU's are not under 100% load at boot, nor is the video card, sound card or are any of the optical drives.

 

[zephyrprime]

I believe Ilmater meant to apply processor power usage to the 12v column not the 5v column. Otherwise, the numbers don't add up.

Both you an Z claim to be using "actual" numbers, yet your amperage is 4.7A higher than his on the hard drives.

I use power draw during 100% seek which is the highest you a hard drive could theoretically attain while operating. Ilmater using power draw during spinup but spinup only occurs during startup so I didn't use that figure.

Plus, not all my figures are actual (I never claimed they where). I couldn't find many of them.

So in order to attain nearly full the full power consumption I outlined, the computer would have to be playing a game while burning a CD and reading stuff from the DVD-rom and transmitting 100mbps over the network while defragging all 3 hard drives.

 

[EeyoreX]

So in order to attain nearly full the full power consumption I outlined, the computer would have to be playing a game while burning a CD and reading stuff from the DVD-rom and transmitting 100mbps over the network while defragging all 3 hard drives.

I think that's probably a good way to begin to stress a quality 550 watt power supply. IMO, any home user claiming to use more power than a quality 550 watt power supply has some serious number errors. People with components that use more power/rail run them on lesser rated power supplys all the time, without instability. As someone earlier said, the only way to really tell if your power supply is insufficient is through real world use. If you are instable, than maybe your PSU might be a problem.

\Dan

 

[Whitedog]

It goes the same for your circuits in a house... open up the breaker box and add all the circuit breakers up, they usually total WAY more than the main breaker. It's a matter of everything no running at once.