Another "Which card for me?" thread =)

[Lokan]

Hi Guys,

Recently my Ti4600's fan died and spun out of it's housing. Instead of monkeying around w/ a new fan and crap I'm gonna sell it to a friend who digs that stuff and get a new card. My budget is approximately $175-$225 (MAYBE $250). My specs are listed:

CPU: AMD AthlonXP 1800+ 1533MHz
Motherboard: Epox 8KHA+
Memory: 1024 MB of Centon + Kingston PC2100 DDR
Video Card: PNY (GeForce 4 Ti4600)
Hard Drive: Western Digital 40.0 GB @ 7200 RPMS
Additional Hard Drives: Western Digital 15gb 7200rpm ATA100
Monitor: Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB
CDROM Manufacturer & Model: Samsung 52x
CDR/CDRW Manufacturer & Model: Lite-On 40/12/48
Storage Interface: IDE
Sound Card: SoundBlaster Audigy 2
Internet Connection: Comcast Cable @ 1.2/128
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Other Components: NetGear FA-310 NIC

Ok, so now you know my system. As you can see, it's not a powerhouse by any stretch, but it definately gets the job done. I generally run all my games in 1024x768 w/ no bells or whistles (FF/AA). I get acceptable FPS but I'd like to get this CPU ready for the next crop of games.

Also of note: I want to try an ATI card because I've read nothing but good stuff about them. I'm extremely interested in seeing this "improved visual quality" because I've never been 100% happy w/ nVidia cards. I enjoyed their speed but hearing ATI has an edge in the visual quality department always left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

With the budget in mind, is there ANY card that can help me? I've read about the 9600Pro, but I'm jaded to the fact that the 9500Pro is a better card. I can find some on Pricewatch but they're not from resellers as reputable as Newegg. That said, I see the 9700pro at $275 on Newegg, about $75 more than I really have to spend at the moment, and I'm not sure how well it will work with on HL2. Please understand that I know HL2 will require a top end machines and GPU to play and look phenominal. All I need at this time is a machine capable of running it ok-to-good at 1024x768 res until I'm ready to sink some money into a new Mobo, CPU, etc. AT forum users have never steered me wrong in the past. My last three PC's were compiled with suggestions from users like you and all have performed extremely well in the past so I need some "stop gap" guidance on which Video card to go to. I really don't want to consider $300 cards because that's what I spent on my current card nearly 1.5 years ago and I don't neccasarily believe I received the "Bang for the buck" performance I'm used to seeing. I know it's a fine line we tow here at AT, but we've always weathered the storm in the past so any guidance on this subject will be extremely appreciated.

Here's the cards I'm looking at: (All from Newegg at this time..)

--POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9600 PRO 256MB DDR DVI+CRT+TV 8X AGP RETAIL - $179 (free s/h)
--POWERCOLOR Evil Commando 2 ATI RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR DVI+CRT+TV AGP RETAIL - $275 (free s/h)
--Chaintech FX71 GeForce FX 5600 Ultra, 128MB, CRT/DVI/TV/VIVO - RETAIL - $214 ($12 s/h)
--POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9800SE 128MB DDR DVI/TV-out 8X AGP (Non Pro) BULK - $239 (free s/h)

So those are my 4 shortlist choices. A few notes however. The Radeon 9800SE from Powercooler, there's a Saphire one availale for $50 LESS than the powercooler, anyone know why? Also, the 5600, I read a benchmark (tom's I believe) showing it to have BETTER Doom3 FPS than even a 9700Pro! Is that true?

Any help on the subject would be extremely appreciated. Please, feel free to extrapolate on this list if you have another vendor with better options as well! Any help is welcome. Thank you in advance!

 

[Tab]

1)Tomshardware SUCKS

2)Wait for the 9600XT and the FX5700U or buy a 9600P right now . Sapphire's Transcends and the such use slower ram on their cheaper cards, 3.0+ while the retail ATi card uses 2.8 Samsung.

 

[McArra]

9700np would be the best choice for around $210. Don't buy any SE card or FX line.

 

[GullyFoyle]

9800 non-pro now on sale at Best Buy for $239.00 (free shipping if you order off the web rather than go to a store)
Pray for Samsung memory so you can flash to Pro.

 

[Schadenfroh]

9800 non pro

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

If you can do $250 and can wait a little while, do that, the 9800XT will probably drop p rices on the 9800 Pro. Otherwise, buy a 9800 Non Pro or a 9600 Pro XT

 

[Corporate Thug]

9800 NP, the release of the 9800 pro XT will most likely just drop the prices of the 9800 pro 256

 

[Bateluer]

Spend a little bit more and get the 9800np.

While the 9600 Pro is an excellent card, you have the budget to get a better card.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
9800 non pro

Yeah, the best choice, I forgot it.

 

[lordtyranus2]

9800 np and BIOS flash is the best way to go

 

[Lokan]

Thank you all for the vast response!

It seems by overwhelming opinion I need to get a 9800np. My questions are now:

1. In the most recent Fall 2003 roundup Anand has, the 9700Pro edges out the 9800np in some of the games (Jedi Knight Academy being one that catches my eye as I play that a lot now), can anyone explain why? And will I regret getting a 9800np -vs- a 9700 pro?

2. Why should I get a 9800np -vs- a 9700Pro?

3. Where the heck should I order the 9800np? Newegg (my home away from home ;D) doesn't offer them any longer.

4. I have a 360w PSU I got recently when I ordered my new case, am I going to have any issues w/ the ATI cards? I heard they have a wierd voltage setting?

5. (Almost done) Is the image quality of ATI vastly supperior to nVidia? Is there a way to explain the reason as to why? I have a 19" CRT w/ decent picture quality so this is an interesting benefit of an ATI card.

6. Lastly (thank you again!), Are the ATI drivers stable? I know in the past ATI took huge hits because their driver support was .. well.. not very supportive. Have they addressed this issue?

Thanks again guys! It looks like I'll be going with an ATI card! Wish me luck!!

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Dont go with the powercolor 256mb, its not worth it, slower memory. Like the others have said, go with the 9800np. I regret not having get one now. =/

 

[Bateluer]

1. In the most recent Fall 2003 roundup Anand has, the 9700Pro edges out the 9800np in some of the games (Jedi Knight Academy being one that catches my eye as I play that a lot now), can anyone explain why? And will I regret getting a 9800np -vs- a 9700 pro?

You can buy direct from ATI here

I would surmise that the 9700 Pro's higher clock speeds give it the advantage in a few cases.

2. Why should I get a 9800np -vs- a 9700Pro?

More advanced chip design, with the possibility of a bios flash to a 9800 Pro

3. Where the heck should I order the 9800np? Newegg (my home away from home ;D) doesn't offer them any longer.

4. I have a 360w PSU I got recently when I ordered my new case, am I going to have any issues w/ the ATI cards? I heard they have a wierd voltage setting?

Should not have any problems. My bro only has a 300watt PSU on his 9800 Pro and XP2000

5. (Almost done) Is the image quality of ATI vastly supperior to nVidia? Is there a way to explain the reason as to why? I have a 19" CRT w/ decent picture quality so this is an interesting benefit of an ATI card.

ATI's cards seem to have better image quality these days . . .

6. Lastly (thank you again!), Are the ATI drivers stable? I know in the past ATI took huge hits because their driver support was .. well.. not very supportive. Have they addressed this issue?

The catalyst series drivers are kickass drivers.

 

[GullyFoyle]

1. In the most recent Fall 2003 roundup Anand has, the 9700Pro edges out the 9800np in some of the games (Jedi Knight Academy being one that catches my eye as I play that a lot now), can anyone explain why? And will I regret getting a 9800np -vs- a 9700 pro? The 9700Pro edges out the 9800np in some of the games because the 9800 is not a pro. The newer technology in the 9800 is not enough to overcome the higher clock of the 9700Pro.

2. Why should I get a 9800np -vs- a 9700Pro? Cheaper. Newer technology. If it has Samsung memory, can be reliably overclocked to a Pro, which will be faster than the 9700Pro. An ATI will come with a 3 year warranty(see next question). See thread in For Sale newgroup for tips on picking out a 9800np that has Samsung memory

3. Where the heck should I order the 9800np? Newegg (my home away from home ;D) doesn't offer them any longer. As I posted above, buy from Best Buy (on sale this week. And do it soon, before they go out of stock)

4. I have a 360w PSU I got recently when I ordered my new case, am I going to have any issues w/ the ATI cards? I heard they have a wierd voltage setting? No weird voltage setting, but they need to be connected to a power tap off your power supply. My Enermax 350 runs it OK, but then, Enermax rocks...YMMV

5. (Almost done) Is the image quality of ATI vastly supperior to nVidia? Is there a way to explain the reason as to why? I have a 19" CRT w/ decent picture quality so this is an interesting benefit of an ATI card. I just switched from a MX440 to a 9800 np, and saw no vast differences in "regular" image quality.

6. Lastly (thank you again!), Are the ATI drivers stable? I know in the past ATI took huge hits because their driver support was .. well.. not very supportive. Have they addressed this issue? The drivers seem OK. I've had no problems I attribute to them.

 

[nRollo]

One thing these guys AREN'T telingl you is how you might want to search Rage3d support before you put an ATI card on your Epox 8KHA+.
I tried to get an 8500 to work on one till it wasn't worth my time any longer, at which point I put a Ti4400 on and -voila- all problems ended. Good luck with it, I'd say your best best would be a 9700 or 5900 based board. There are no major image quality improvements of one over the other. The higher settings of the ATI cards look a little better, but not enough to notice much in gameplay.

Don't waste your money on a feeble 9600Pro. Yeah sure it runs HL2 as fast as a 5900 Ultra in DX9, but so what? At 40fps, no AA/AF on a P4 3GHz you're still screw3d. Your cpu isn't a P4 3GHz, or close, so you won't be running any HL2 in DX9 no matter what card you buy.

 

[Lokan]

Bat, Dan, Rollo,

Thank you! I'm heading to BB today after work to get this one. I'm going to TRY and get a samsung one, but who knows, my luck with that happening isn't exactly the best in the world.

I want to thank everyone for their help and suggestions. I didn't even consider the 9800np because all you hear from most is "it's not faster than the 9700pro" so I just shrugged it off, my mistake has been corrected. Thanks also to Rollo for the cautionary note about the Epox board. I had a small issue with a bad CPU when I first purchased the board but it was RMA'd no problem and the board's been rock solid ever since. All I've had are nVidia GPU's in this box however so I'll definately get some sort of driver removal utility and make a system restore file before I try anything.

Guys (gals if you're out there ;P), again, my thanks.

 

[lordtyranus2]

Good luck!!! Hope you get samsung memory.

 

[cmdrdredd]

9800NP
9700NP
9600Pro
9500Pro

Take your pick

Check around for 9500Pro and 9700NP as they can probably be found relatively cheap since they aren't produced anymore.

 

[Lokan]

As stated, by fateful luck holds true. Infineon memory They don't even have another to try and exchange it with. Oh well, a 9800np should definately be an upgrade from a Ti4600 right?... right?

Thanks to all for the headsup and great recommendation. There's a thread in the Hot Deals forum for getting a Radeon 9800Pro for $280.. it's dead btw, I tried. hell, Staples won't even pricematch non-authorized ATI resellers anymore, of course they tell me AFTER they authorize the charge.. kinda shadey but I can't claim to blame them.

Thanks again, the next post I make will be on my new Radeon 9800! =D

 

[Lokan]

Well it's in... however the 3.7's corrupted my registry and windows wasn't able to recover. I guess it was time to reformat anyway. Still, to anyone using a logo switcher, be wary of installing those drivers and XP... sigh.

I gotta reinstall my drivers (just got done windozeupdating) so I can try some games... Here's hoping it was worth it =)

One question for you nVidia converts. Is there a "digital vibrance" equivalent in the ATI suite? I've found the color controls and that's sort of what I'm looking for, but the colors seem absolutely dull and flat now and I was hoping there was a fix. Any suggestions?

 

[lordtyranus2]

Do you have a PCI video card? I'd try the BIOS flash anyway. Also, did you check stores other than Staples?

newegg currently has 9800 Pros refurbished for $270 I believe.

 

[Lokan]

I have an AGP 9800np (However, my Device manager and all the drivers are saying "pro" ... why?).

It cost $254 w/ tax, not a bad deal. I just don't know why my PC keeps thinking it's a Pro