Another USN destroyer, USS John McCain, collides with a commercial ship

[Sunburn74]

The are already operating in a constant CYA mode as it is. Need to get rid of several useless rear admirals and clean house.

This is the problem. There's a story on NPR you can download about an explosion a few years ago at a US missile silo I believe in Arkansas. Anyway the error was seen immediately and was completely innocuous.and could happen to anyone (a metal tool slipped, was dropped from a considerable height and punctured a container of highly explosive missile fuel). However concerns regarding what would happen to those that made the error played a part in delaying the correction of the error (the guys who dropped the tool literally shat bricks over thoughts that they would either be killed immediately by the explosive rocket fuel or by their commanders once they found that the leak was due to human error and a dropped tool). That delay lead to the death of individuals subsequently. In fact when the mistake was finally admitted (this was before anyone died by the way) the men involved were in complete tears by report to where they could barely speak.

Look the long and short of it is if you're interested in making sure that people see problems, report problems and fix problems prosecutions often have the exact opposite effect. No one is looking to kill people.

There is a growing sentiment by the way that the Navy has systematic practices and a culture that promotes sleep deprivation. It is common for shipmen to operate on 3-4 hours of sleep a day and some are expected to perform on 72 hours of continuously being awake. Go ahead and prosecute and incarcerate 19 and 20 year olds who fell asleep at hour 63 of being awake. That'll fix the problem forever! They haven't suffered enough knowing they killed inadvertently their close friends and brothers!

 

[brycejones]

At least they are starting to get rid of the rot.

I'm not so sure. This feels like the ship commanders (who I fully understand are accountable for their commands) are being tossed under the bus for issues that go beyond these individual ships. The Navy appears to have some serious training issues to address and that would be close to the actual root cause of these incidents.

 

[Lanyap]

Update: Looks like part of the problem was complex throttle and steering touchscreen controls.

The US Navy says no to touchscreens—maybe automakers should, too

 

[dank69]

Update: Looks like part of the problem was complex throttle and steering touchscreen controls.

The US Navy says no to touchscreens—maybe automakers should, too

Nobody knew operating Navy vessels would be so hard.

 

[tweaker2]

Update: Looks like part of the problem was complex throttle and steering touchscreen controls.

The US Navy says no to touchscreens—maybe automakers should, too

Nothing like hands on steering and MK 1 eyeball lookouts to keep the mind on the job at hand.

 

[tweaker2]

Nobody knew operating Navy vessels would be so hard.

They made it too easy to the point of boredom and distraction it seems.

 

[fskimospy]

Nothing like hands on steering and MK 1 eyeball lookouts to keep the mind on the job at hand.

If the setup on the McCain is anything like the "smart ship" setup on my ship it's still hands on driving, but with IBS you lack tactile feedback. From the article the real problem was them not knowing when control had been transferred to aft steering or whatever because frankly the amount of controls and shit on that screen is way too much for what the helmsman is actually doing, which definitely matches my experience watching people drive the ship. Also it should be taken into account that the person with their hands on the wheel was probably a deck seaman who are, generally speaking, the dumbest people on the ship. (seriously, you become a deck seaman usually by failing to qualify for any rate)

I'm not sure if it really relates much to car driving though as things happen much more slowly at sea than they do with a car. Touch screens are an objectively bad idea for cars, in my experience they could be fine for ships but the implementation the Navy chose was just bad.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just imagine if the mechanical throttles on commercial planes were replaced by touch screens..... no thanks.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Just imagine if the mechanical throttles on commercial planes were replaced by touch screens..... no thanks.

You'd be surprised how little the pilots need to fly our commercial planes now, planes can land automatically without pilots touching the stick, adjust altitude and course. To my knowledge, the only thing that requires manual operation is just the take off portion, everything else can be adjusted by buttons and knobs while autopilot is on.

 

[Moonbeam]

I guess nobody in the Navy is in the cat bird seat anymore. Even for soup they have the duty chicken walk through the broth.

 

[hal2kilo]

This is the problem. There's a story on NPR you can download about an explosion a few years ago at a US missile silo I believe in Arkansas. Anyway the error was seen immediately and was completely innocuous.and could happen to anyone (a metal tool slipped, was dropped from a considerable height and punctured a container of highly explosive missile fuel). However concerns regarding what would happen to those that made the error played a part in delaying the correction of the error (the guys who dropped the tool literally shat bricks over thoughts that they would either be killed immediately by the explosive rocket fuel or by their commanders once they found that the leak was due to human error and a dropped tool). That delay lead to the death of individuals subsequently. In fact when the mistake was finally admitted (this was before anyone died by the way) the men involved were in complete tears by report to where they could barely speak.

Look the long and short of it is if you're interested in making sure that people see problems, report problems and fix problems prosecutions often have the exact opposite effect. No one is looking to kill people.

There is a growing sentiment by the way that the Navy has systematic practices and a culture that promotes sleep deprivation. It is common for shipmen to operate on 3-4 hours of sleep a day and some are expected to perform on 72 hours of continuously being awake. Go ahead and prosecute and incarcerate 19 and 20 year olds who fell asleep at hour 63 of being awake. That'll fix the problem forever! They haven't suffered enough knowing they killed inadvertently their close friends and brothers!

I've supported Demonstration and Shakedown (DASO) launch missions where the Missile Techs (MTs) haven't had a decent sleep in 48 hours. They're like the walking dead. In the last couple of years though they have changed the daily schedules to 8 hours watches (with meals every 8 hours which sucks). No more Vulcan death watches of 18 hour days comprised of 6 hour watches. That was actually a rare setup but it did occur in the past.

 

[pcgeek11]

I've supported Demonstration and Shakedown (DASO) launch missions where the Missile Techs (MTs) haven't had a decent sleep in 48 hours. They're like the walking dead. In the last couple of years though they have changed the daily schedules to 8 hours watches (with meals every 8 hours which sucks). No more Vulcan death watches of 18 hour days comprised of 6 hour watches. That was actually a rare setup but it did occur in the past.

I can vouch for that.

As a Missile Tech on Submarines back in the day. I have been through several DASO's and OT/FOT ( Operational Test / Follow On Test ) it was rough staying up for days with no sleep or rest. We had a few that fell asleep while standing.

Damn I miss those days!

 

[JEDI]

Update: Looks like part of the problem was complex throttle and steering touchscreen controls.

The US Navy says no to touchscreens—maybe automakers should, too

that's the report for the John McCain, right?

so whats the verdict of that navy destroyer colliding with that huge cargo container?