Another Swift boat liar.
- Thread starter Ferocious
- Start date
Kerry is making his service record a major part of his campaign, so I would expect the repubs to attack it. I think he should try some different tactics
I do find it ironical that the repubs attack Kerry's service record, and he does have honorable service in the armed forces, yet Bush comes up emptied handed
I do find it ironical that the repubs attack Kerry's service record, and he does have honorable service in the armed forces, yet Bush comes up emptied handed
Elliott, in the interview yesterday, said that based on the affidavits of the veterans on other boats, he now thinks his assessment about the Bronze Star and third Purple Heart may have been based on poor information.
In one affidavit, for example, Van O'Dell, who said he had been in a boat near Kerry on that day, declared that Kerry had ''lied" about what happened on that day and said that Rassmann was not under enemy fire when Kerry pulled him aboard.
Elliott, asked about the contradiction between his recommendation and his new questioning of Kerry's third Purple Heart, responded, ''It makes me look kind of silly, to be perfectly honest."
But he said: ''I simply have no reason for these guys to be lying, and if they are lying in concert, it is one hell of a conspiracy. So, on the basis of all of the information that has come out, I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not know first hand."
Link
In one affidavit, for example, Van O'Dell, who said he had been in a boat near Kerry on that day, declared that Kerry had ''lied" about what happened on that day and said that Rassmann was not under enemy fire when Kerry pulled him aboard.
Elliott, asked about the contradiction between his recommendation and his new questioning of Kerry's third Purple Heart, responded, ''It makes me look kind of silly, to be perfectly honest."
But he said: ''I simply have no reason for these guys to be lying, and if they are lying in concert, it is one hell of a conspiracy. So, on the basis of all of the information that has come out, I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not know first hand."
Link
By the way, I've written good performance appraisals at work only to realize later after working more closely with an individual that my assessment was incorrect.
I suspect that something like that happened here.
I suspect that something like that happened here.
Newfound Records Contradict Kerry Critic
Questions have arisen about the military record of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's harshest accusers, a Swift boat skipper during the Vietnam War and one of a group of veterans running ads that accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his combat service.
Larry Thurlow, a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, won a Bronze Star stemming from the same incident in which the Massachusetts senator received the same award 35 years ago.
Kerry earned the medal for rescuing Army Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been knocked off Kerry's Swift boat when a mine exploded nearby on March 13, 1969. Kerry, who also received a Purple Heart after being injured during the explosion, pulled Rassmann out of the Bay Hap River.
Rassmann's and Kerry's accounts of the incident, along with Kerry's Bronze Star citation, describe the rescue as happening under enemy fire, as does the official Navy report. In addition, a damage survey filed with the Navy report said that three of the five boats involved sustained "battle damage," and Thurlow's boat had "three 30 cal bullet holes about super structure."
But in interviews since the anti-Kerry group formed in the spring, Thurlow has repeatedly said that there was no enemy fire.
He said Kerry's boat left the area, while other boats went to help the wounded and stabilize the damaged boat.
In the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ad, Thurlow says: "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."
But in an interview with The Times in June, Thurlow admitted that he had been thrown overboard from a nearby boat during the chaos, making it difficult for him to have seen the entire incident.
The Washington Post on Thursday reported that Thurlow's military records contradicted him, describing "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at all of the boats involved in the incident.
Thurlow's Bronze Star citation, the Post said, lauds him for helping wounded comrades and a damaged boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."
Kerry's boat, PCF-94, was one of several in a flotilla going down the river when the mine went off, damaging another, PCF-3. Thurlow commanded nearby PCF-51.
In a Times interview Thursday, Thurlow stood by his story. He said that, though he still had his medal, he had lost the paperwork that went with it.
"If I'm required to be under fire to get that medal, I need to give it back," said Thurlow, who lives in Bogue, Kan.
"I got it under fraudulent circumstances."
Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott signed the recommendations that led to both Kerry's and Thurlow's medals, according to the Post.
Elliott, also a member of the anti-Kerry veterans group, has called the Silver Star into question since the ad ran; he has not questioned Kerry's Bronze Star.
When Thurlow was pressed Thursday about how his Bronze Star citation could be wrong, he told The Times that Kerry wrote up the report on which Elliott based his recommendations and that Elliott "accepted John's report at face value."
But neither Thurlow nor his group has proved that Kerry was the sole source of the battle account that led to his Bronze Star, according to a Times review of the ad's allegations published Tuesday.
LATimes.com (reg req)
Questions have arisen about the military record of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's harshest accusers, a Swift boat skipper during the Vietnam War and one of a group of veterans running ads that accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his combat service.
Larry Thurlow, a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, won a Bronze Star stemming from the same incident in which the Massachusetts senator received the same award 35 years ago.
Kerry earned the medal for rescuing Army Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been knocked off Kerry's Swift boat when a mine exploded nearby on March 13, 1969. Kerry, who also received a Purple Heart after being injured during the explosion, pulled Rassmann out of the Bay Hap River.
Rassmann's and Kerry's accounts of the incident, along with Kerry's Bronze Star citation, describe the rescue as happening under enemy fire, as does the official Navy report. In addition, a damage survey filed with the Navy report said that three of the five boats involved sustained "battle damage," and Thurlow's boat had "three 30 cal bullet holes about super structure."
But in interviews since the anti-Kerry group formed in the spring, Thurlow has repeatedly said that there was no enemy fire.
He said Kerry's boat left the area, while other boats went to help the wounded and stabilize the damaged boat.
In the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ad, Thurlow says: "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."
But in an interview with The Times in June, Thurlow admitted that he had been thrown overboard from a nearby boat during the chaos, making it difficult for him to have seen the entire incident.
The Washington Post on Thursday reported that Thurlow's military records contradicted him, describing "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at all of the boats involved in the incident.
Thurlow's Bronze Star citation, the Post said, lauds him for helping wounded comrades and a damaged boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."
Kerry's boat, PCF-94, was one of several in a flotilla going down the river when the mine went off, damaging another, PCF-3. Thurlow commanded nearby PCF-51.
In a Times interview Thursday, Thurlow stood by his story. He said that, though he still had his medal, he had lost the paperwork that went with it.
"If I'm required to be under fire to get that medal, I need to give it back," said Thurlow, who lives in Bogue, Kan.
"I got it under fraudulent circumstances."
Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott signed the recommendations that led to both Kerry's and Thurlow's medals, according to the Post.
Elliott, also a member of the anti-Kerry veterans group, has called the Silver Star into question since the ad ran; he has not questioned Kerry's Bronze Star.
When Thurlow was pressed Thursday about how his Bronze Star citation could be wrong, he told The Times that Kerry wrote up the report on which Elliott based his recommendations and that Elliott "accepted John's report at face value."
But neither Thurlow nor his group has proved that Kerry was the sole source of the battle account that led to his Bronze Star, according to a Times review of the ad's allegations published Tuesday.
LATimes.com (reg req)
I doubt there is some sort of compriracy, but I imagine many of them are quite envious of Kerry's position. Envious people in all likelyhood would not paint their compatriot's in a good way. I imagine many of them may get swept up into the tide
If Kerry has nothing to hide he should authorize the full release of his service records.
Can you explain why he hasn't done that yet?
Can you explain why he hasn't done that yet?
What does the truth matter. Kerry is Jane Fonda and ruining his chance to be President is all that matters. He doesn't deserve to be President and the ends justify the lies.
TuxDave
Lifer
- Oct 8, 2002
- 10,571
- 3
- 71
Damn... what the hell is with all these attacks of character on these presidents? If I were Kerry, I wouldn't release my full records either. Even if it fully justifies the 3 purple hearts, it's like feeding the Republicans fuel. I'm sure the DNC would LOVE it if Bush could release a full biography of everything he did in his life. I mean... why wouldn't he right? Cuz he has nothing to hide right? Wrong, then the DNC can go dig through his records and find him smoking pot or something. This is just complete crap overall. The moveon.org should go to hell, and let's just skip all this crap and get to the debates already.
BWA HA HA HA HA!!
Can these idiot liars expose themselves *any* more?? This is fvcking hilarious!!
Elliott's own words PRAISING Kerry and mentioning enemy fire and then his own signature on it!!
LMAO!!
Can these idiot liars expose themselves *any* more?? This is fvcking hilarious!!
Elliott's own words PRAISING Kerry and mentioning enemy fire and then his own signature on it!!
LMAO!!
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
As this moves forward, many of these people may be put into a position
where that may have to testify under oath in a court of law.
There may be quite a few recanting thier present recolection of what they
have said in the ads, or they may be stating that thier statements were
manipulated by persons unknown to re-form their statements into something
that they had not actually said.
Some have come out after the fact and said that their affidavid response
is not what has been portrayed in the TV ads, someone changed the statement.
This has no place in honest Politics (Oxymoron ?) and does not represent Democracy.
I served with Kerry in Viet Nam, only a few dozen miles away, and only a couple years
before he got there, and I don't really think that these people know what they're up against.
I served with Bush as well, only a few hundred miles apart and only about 5 years
before he went AWOL, but I don't hate him for it, but I do think that he should be
Courts Martialed for desertion, which is what Military Law calls for during War Time.
where that may have to testify under oath in a court of law.
There may be quite a few recanting thier present recolection of what they
have said in the ads, or they may be stating that thier statements were
manipulated by persons unknown to re-form their statements into something
that they had not actually said.
Some have come out after the fact and said that their affidavid response
is not what has been portrayed in the TV ads, someone changed the statement.
This has no place in honest Politics (Oxymoron ?) and does not represent Democracy.
I served with Kerry in Viet Nam, only a few dozen miles away, and only a couple years
before he got there, and I don't really think that these people know what they're up against.
I served with Bush as well, only a few hundred miles apart and only about 5 years
before he went AWOL, but I don't hate him for it, but I do think that he should be
Courts Martialed for desertion, which is what Military Law calls for during War Time.
Rip will deny this exists
And this
This Too
Rip, are you one of those Flat-earth types. Reguardless of Fact and evidence of the Earth being Round, You "Know" its flat.
I read all the lies that I needed to read in Winter Soldier. I don't care any more what Kerry has to say. He sat there in his wrinkled fatigues, with his long hair, and systematically destroyed the image of the American soldier that he now claims to support. He was a disgrace to his country then, and lies about it now. The past should have been left in the past....... People can move on, but apparently, Kerry can't.
He promulgated the lies of persons not even in Viet-Nam, or not in the "know" as factual accounts of atrocities. He has never backed down, nor admitted his actions were wrong. He should have let sleeping dogs lie.
He promulgated the lies of persons not even in Viet-Nam, or not in the "know" as factual accounts of atrocities. He has never backed down, nor admitted his actions were wrong. He should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Smashsp:
Good grief, can you imagine the performance appraisal he'd give you in light of his grasp of the facts and your "misunderstanding" of them?
I'm not sure I'd want to be one of your underlings, RIP!
-Robert
Good grief, can you imagine the performance appraisal he'd give you in light of his grasp of the facts and your "misunderstanding" of them?
I'm not sure I'd want to be one of your underlings, RIP!
-Robert
Again, Moonbean hits the nail straight on it's head. As someone who knows many, many conservative vietnam era vets, I can tell you that their is an extremely large segment of them that hate Kerry for his anti-war activities, and will say or do anything that gets him defeated - PERIOD!
I AM JOHN KERRY
I WAS IN VIETNAM
I DO NOT OWN A SUV
I AM NOT A JEW
MY NAME IS NOT REALLY KOHN
I CAN DO THINGS BETTER
What a freakin joke, may as well nominate Ted Kennedy
Little known fact: Every single moderator here is an Hasidic Jew. We will not tolerate racist hate mongering here.
AnandTech Moderator
I WAS IN VIETNAM
I DO NOT OWN A SUV
I AM NOT A JEW
MY NAME IS NOT REALLY KOHN
I CAN DO THINGS BETTER
What a freakin joke, may as well nominate Ted Kennedy
Little known fact: Every single moderator here is an Hasidic Jew. We will not tolerate racist hate mongering here.
AnandTech Moderator
Why do you believe that Bush has released all his records (an opinion that's not shared by too many, I might add), yet don't believe Kerry has? It doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation, does it?
So did you go on TV bashing that person and write a book detailing how you have misjudged your assesment? Do you have any support for your misjudgement (ie performance wise, not personal feeling)? Or you just simply dislike him/her because he/she is better at work than you are?
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