Another "Stand Your Ground" story... War vet killed in front of daughter

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
71
Besides the other case there's other stories that involve the Stand Your Ground law.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/31...Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-murder

Valrico, FL (CNN/WFLA/WTFS/WTSP) - Outrage over last month's shooting death of an unarmed teen in Florida has put a new focus on the state's "Stand Your Ground" law. The widow of a man shot dead in front of his daughter, says it is a free pass for murder.

When David James, an Iraq War veteran, escaped combat in the Middle East unscathed, his wife Kanina breathed a sigh of relief.

"I would worry about him but I thought he'd be safe here," she said.

Kanina was wrong; and now wants to know why Trevor Dooley, a 71-year-old retired bus driver, shot her husband in broad daylight, right front of their eight-year-old daughter. Dooley claims it was self defense. Kanina James calls it murder.

"What person brings a gun to a park when there's children? I mean, he killed my husband. He could've just talked to him," James said.

Whether or not Trevor Dooley fired in self-defense is at the heart of this case. Also central to the story is Dooley's defense-Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law-which allows a person to stand their ground and use deadly force if they fear someone could seriously harm them.

Here's what witnesses said happened on that September Sunday in 2010. Forty-one-year-old David James was playing basketball with his daughter when witnesses said Dooley, who lived right across the street, started yelling at a teenager who was skateboarding, to get off the court. That's when witnesses said James intervened.

James yelled back to Dooley, asking him to show where any sign said no skateboarding. Dooley then crossed the street to the park to confront James.

A tennis player at the park, Michael Whitt, testified things turned ugly when Dooley reached for his waistband. Whitt said James then lunged at Dooley. The two men struggled on the ground before James was shot once through the heart. On the 911 call, Whitt is heard trying to help.

Dooley tells a different story; one that contradicts witness statements. Dooley told authorities when he took the gun out of his right front pocket James saw the weapon and knocked him to the ground. At a hearing to get the charges dismissed, Dooley testified, "he was choking me to death."

Dooley's lawyer said his client turned to walk away towards home and that James was the aggressor. He said Dooley did show a gun, but did not use it until he felt his life was threatened. He said charges against his client should be dropped given the Stand Your Ground law.

Kanina James said her husband of 13 years had never been aggressive, that he was a gentle family man. She believes he was trying to protect himself and their daughter, Danielle, after he saw Dooley pull a gun.

"He loved Danielle so much, that breaks my heart, that Trevor Dooley took my daughter's best friend away from her; she'll never have her daddy," Kanina James said.

Danielle's testimony about how and why the situation turned violent is key in a case that hinges on self-defense. Danielle, now 10, recalled how her father asked Dooley where the signs were that said "no skateboarding" on the court.

"My dad got on top of him, so he could keep him down so he could get the answer," the young girl said.

"Where were your dad's hands?" prosecutors asked.

"On his arms."

"On the man's arms?"

"Yeah," she said.

Danielle then recalled her father's last moments.

"I think the guy pulled out the gun then," she said.

"Did you hear anything?" said prosecutors.

"Yeah."

"What did you hear?"

"Like when it shot?" Danielle said.

"You heard a gunshot," said prosecutors.

"Yeah.

"Did your dad say anything then?"

"Yeah."

"What did he say?" said prosecutors.

"Call the ambulance, I have been shot," she said.

When Kanina James arrived at the scene, her husband was already dead and her daughter was crying, asking, "Why isn't anyone helping my daddy?"
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Sounds like Mr. James was trying to "Stand HIS Ground" when he got shot. Laws like this are just ridiculous.

Dooley's lawyer said his client turned to walk away towards home and that James was the aggressor. He said Dooley did show a gun, but did not use it until he felt his life was threatened. He said charges against his client should be dropped given the Stand Your Ground law.

And this, my friends, is the nature of the problem. You don't brandish a weapon without the intent to use it in a defensive posture. Dooley was clearly the aggressor in this scenario.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Theres two possibilities:

1) He fired in self defense, in which case I don't see any problem with the stand your ground law.
2) He murdered the guy in broad daylight, in which case the stand your ground law won't apply to him.
 

amish

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
4,295
6
81
so guy pulls out gun, escalates the confrontation, and shoots the other person who was trying to disarm him?
 

Rakewell

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2005
2,418
1
76
Theres two possibilities:

1) He fired in self defense, in which case I don't see any problem with the stand your ground law.
2) He murdered the guy in broad daylight, in which case the stand your ground law won't apply to him.

?

Self defense... from what? It was an argument that didn't need a firearm.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Sounds like Mr. James was trying to "Stand HIS Ground" when he got shot. Laws like this are just ridiculous.



And this, my friends, is the nature of the problem. You don't brandish a weapon without the intent to use it in a defensive posture. Dooley was clearly the aggressor in this scenario.

Exactly. Theres nothing wrong with the law. It's just a matter of sorting out what REALLY happened.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Sounds like Mr. James was trying to "Stand HIS Ground" when he got shot. Laws like this are just ridiculous.

No, the laws are not " ridiculous". Its when people try to exploit the law is when things turn bad.

When banks find a way around a law, do we call the laws " ridiculous"? No, we see it for what it is, and that is the bank looking for loopholes.


Dooley told authorities when he took the gun out of his right front pocket James saw the weapon and knocked him to the ground.

James saw the weapon and reacted.

Sounds to me like Dooley was in the wrong.
 

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
71
Yep it looks like the people with the guns live and the ones without die in Florida. Guess everyone there should pack some heat to protect themselves from guys who think they own the neighborhood or park.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
floriduh%20cover.jpg
 

McWatt

Senior member
Feb 25, 2010
405
0
71
I believe the law can fairly be called ridiculous because it's impossible in court to distinguish between cases where the law applies and where it does not. Amazingly, the language of the law bases legality on intent: it's okay to shoot if the party "reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself." Not only is it difficult to determine whether the party had that belief and the reasonability of said belief, but in about ten thousand alcohol-fueled altercations a night both parties would probably be covered by this law.
 

IcePickFreak

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2007
2,428
9
81
sounds pretty clear to me, the person that switches it from an oral argument to a physical confrontation is the aggressor
he chose to attack instead of flee

So if you attempt to disarm a guy who's pulling out a weapon at say, the corner gas station, you're breaking the law in Florida?

And WTF old man, you're not even at the park, much less playing on the basketball court where the kid was riding his skateboard.. leave it the fuck alone. I mean have all the respect for seniors, but some go waaaay out of their way to be grumpy old bastards.
 
Last edited:

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
So if you attempt to disarm a guy who's pulling out a weapon at say, the corner gas station, you're breaking the law in Florida?

i don't know, i am not a lawyer (or judge) licensed to practice law in Florida

if somebody was pulling a gun on me (and I wasn't carrying at the time) i would flee, i am not trained in hand to gun warfare
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,152
17
81
They should just bring out duals at high noon in front of the city hall or something. You got a problem with me buddy? I'll meet you at city hall at noon so we can settle it like men.
 

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
71
sounds pretty clear to me, the person that switches it from an oral argument to a physical confrontation is the aggressor
he chose to attack instead of flee

Yea, he was pulling out a gun. If some aggressor came at you yelling and then starts to pull a gun on you. Do you try to run away leaving your child behind or try to disarm the individual?
 

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
71
i don't know, i am not a lawyer (or judge) licensed to practice law in Florida

if somebody was pulling a gun on me (and I wasn't carrying at the time) i would flee, i am not trained in hand to gun warfare

He had a child and what makes you think the dude wouldn't just shoot you in the back? You're dead, he lives and gets a chance to be free of the crime by telling his 'side' of the story saying you attacked him.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
sounds pretty clear to me, the person that switches it from an oral argument to a physical confrontation is the aggressor
he chose to attack instead of flee

And not the person who pulled the gun?
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,404
3
81
might have been defending himself, but only bc he drew on a guy that wanted to then defend HIMself, and didnt have a gun.
 

Anonemous

Diamond Member
May 19, 2003
7,361
1
71
might have been defending himself, but only bc he drew on a guy that wanted to then defend HIMself, and didnt have a gun.

Yea, the moral of the story is everyone in Florida should have guns to 'defend' themselves because of the law or just be another potential victim.
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
76
Florida is insane. Everywhere else in the world skateboarders and the elderly can quietly hate eachother but in Florida there's gunplay. They just need to enact a new law called the "Get a Rope and Form a Posse" law to deal with these assholes shooting unarmed people. When everyone is dead we can resettle the state with some reasonable people.