Another retired General speaks up - Criticizes Rumsfeld

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040416-9999-7m16zinni.html

Retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni wondered aloud yesterday how Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld could be caught off guard by the chaos in Iraq that has killed nearly 100 Americans in recent weeks and led to his announcement that 20,000 U.S. troops would be staying there instead of returning home as planned.

"I'm surprised that he is surprised because there was a lot of us who were telling him that it was going to be thus," said Zinni, a Marine for 39 years and the former commander of the U.S. Central Command. "Anyone could know the problems they were going to see. How could they not?"

At a Pentagon news briefing yesterday, Rumsfeld said he could not have estimated how many troops would be killed in the past week.

Zinni made his comments during an interview with The San Diego Union-Tribune before giving a speech last night at the University of San Diego's Joan B. Kroc Institute for Peace & Justice as part of its distinguished lecturer series.

For years Zinni said he cautioned U.S. officials that an Iraq without Saddam Hussein would likely be more dangerous to U.S. interests than one with him because of the ethnic and religious clashes that would be unleashed.

"I think that some heads should roll over Iraq," Zinni said. "I think the president got some bad advice."

Known as the "Warrior Diplomat," Zinni is not a peace activist by nature or training, having led troops in Vietnam, commanded rescue operations in Somalia and directed strikes against Iraq and al Qaeda.

He once commanded the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton.

Out of uniform, Zinni was a troubleshooter for the U.S. government in Africa, Asia and Europe and served as special envoy to the Middle East under the Bush administration for a time before his reservations over the Iraq war and its aftermath caused him to resign and oppose it.

Not even Zinni's resumé could shield him from the accusations that followed.

"I've been called a traitor and a turncoat for mentioning these things," said Zinni, 60. The problems in Iraq are being caused, he said, by poor planning and shortsightedness, such as disbanding the Iraqi army and being unable to provide security.

Zinni said the United States must now rely on the U.N. to pull its "chestnuts out of the fire in Iraq."

"We're betting on the U.N., who we blew off and ridiculed during the run-up to the war," Zinni said. "Now we're back with hat in hand. It would be funny if not for the lives lost."


Several things have to happen to get Iraq back on course, whether the U.N. decides to step in or not, Zinni said.

Improving security for American forces and the Iraqi people is at the top of the list followed closely by helping the working class with economic projects.

But it's not the lack of a comprehensive American plan for Iraq nor the surging violence that has cost allied troops their lives ? including about 30 Camp Pendleton Marines ? that most concerns Zinni.

"In the end, the Iraqis themselves have to want to rebuild their country more than we do," Zinni said. "But I don't see that right now. I see us doing everything.

"I spent two years in Vietnam, and I've seen this movie before," he said. "They have to be willing to do more or else it is never going to work."

Last night at the Kroc institute during his speech "From the Battlefield to the Negotiating Table: Preventing Deadly Conflict," Zinni detailed the approach he believes the United States should take in the Middle East.

He told an overflow crowd that the United States tries to grapple with individual issues in Middle East instead of seeing them as elements of a broader question.

"We need to step back and get a grand strategy," he said.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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...so let's let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive regime for another decade and let Saddam and his sons kill a few 100,000 more of their citizenry, rape a few more women, shoot a few more people in the head until the get bored with it, gas a few more generations...all in the name of "safety" to the U.S.....how stupid does that, and the people who mutter such a thing, sound?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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More rationalization from a Bush-God fanboy.

Even when those who were running the military and warning the administration of the dangers come out and criticize the Bush administration for ignoring them, the fanboys still stand behind the Great Obfuscator.

Wonders will never cease.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...so let's let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive regime for another decade and let Saddam and his sons kill a few 100,000 more of their citizenry, rape a few more women, shoot a few more people in the head until the get bored with it, gas a few more generations...all in the name of "safety" to the U.S.....how stupid does that, and the people who mutter such a thing, sound?

Sounded good to Reagan in the 80's and Bush 1 in the 90's :D
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Also sounded good to Rumsfield in the 80's. I can dredge up the handshake photo, but I'll spare you that.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...so let's let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive regime for another decade and let Saddam and his sons kill a few 100,000 more of their citizenry, rape a few more women, shoot a few more people in the head until the get bored with it, gas a few more generations...all in the name of "safety" to the U.S.....how stupid does that, and the people who mutter such a thing, sound?

Well you muttered it, and yes it does sound pretty dumb.

Ok, lets invade everywhere there is injustice. While we are at it, there is a growing chasm between the richest and poorest. Let's not live under an oppressive system where people can't get ahead and the "man" keeps them down. Let's seize all the wealth of people over say, a million dollars. Send to places and people who can use it to get ahead. Lets not just educate people with that money, but give it to people to start their own business. Let's get rid of conservatives who oppose this too. Let's make me king and you get to live under my authority. If you do what I say then you can enjoy life, otherwise I send the police or troops to treat you just like we treat people around the would who are not as enlightened as I am. I can bring peace. Obey me or die. Death is peace.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.



There are always arguments for any action. Every war benefits someone. Every murder has a silver lining.

Free the world. Kill those who oppose us.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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onelove

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2001
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nice post and link conjur. the administration can only discredit these traiterous america-haters one at a time. good for zinni for calling it the way he sees it (anybody that uses the euphamism "pulling our chestnuts out of the fire" is somebody that's calling it like he sees it - hehe)
 

onelove

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Oh, boy, this stupid game again. Okay, I'll play
I think the doctored photo game might have been a different thread - good work on the captions though!
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: onelove
nice post and link conjur. the administration can only discredit these traiterous america-haters one at a time. good for zinni for calling it the way he sees it (anybody that uses the euphamism "pulling our chestnuts out of the fire" is somebody that's calling it like he sees it - hehe)

..or plans to run for President.
 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Also sounded good to Rumsfield in the 80's. I can dredge up the handshake photo, but I'll spare you that.

Oh, this one?

Oh, boy, this stupid game again. Okay, I'll play

What did he do for the human condition?

Sure this is one of your favorite flicks

Sure, sir, keep the oil flowing and we'll do whatever you want

ohhhh, I think I've found your weapon of mass destruction, my dear.

I might've missed something, does the title have Chirac in it?

We should've planned the war on Iraq more thoroughly, did the Bush admin. really expect a peaceful transistion? Hopefully they have come up with a good plan :)
 

onelove

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: onelove
nice post and link conjur. the administration can only discredit these traiterous america-haters one at a time. good for zinni for calling it the way he sees it (anybody that uses the euphamism "pulling our chestnuts out of the fire" is somebody that's calling it like he sees it - hehe)

..or plans to run for President.

right; in that case, they could very well say anything (and probably will), however, I don't think anybody's seriously making a claim that Zinni is saying this because it is politically motivated. I mean, c'mon now.

 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...so let's let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive regime for another decade and let Saddam and his sons kill a few 100,000 more of their citizenry, rape a few more women, shoot a few more people in the head until the get bored with it, gas a few more generations...all in the name of "safety" to the U.S.....how stupid does that, and the people who mutter such a thing, sound?

Ok, Galt, I have to ask this, but if this was done to "liberate" the Iraq's and because Hussain was "bad". Then wth aren't we doing anything about things that happen in Africa?

Too me it looks a hell of a lot like this administration is selectivly picking which countries to "liberate". Ironicly they're all in a middle-east. And people wonder why the Arab world in paranoid when it comes to US (or pretty much any foreign powers) involvement...
 

clarkmo

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2000
2,615
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It's just Zinni's opinion and who's to say he's right or even accurate. In the end, Bush's strategy will have proven to be a good one. And that's a good thing, considering he's gonna be re-elected.
 

clarkmo

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2000
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Ok, Galt, I have to ask this, but if this was done to "liberate" the Iraq's and because Hussain was "bad". Then wth aren't we doing anything about things that happen in Africa?

Somalia

 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
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Originally posted by: onelove
Originally posted by: clarkmo
Somalia

Rwanda
Sudan

I think he meant these.

Sudan, yeah, interesting exemple.

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Rwanda

I'm refering to this administration. I don't recall this administration doing any great work over there.


Not familiar with Djibouti, could you be more specific as to what event/situation you're refering to when you listed this place? Keep in mind I'm refering to what THIS administration has done.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...so let's let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive regime for another decade and let Saddam and his sons kill a few 100,000 more of their citizenry, rape a few more women, shoot a few more people in the head until the get bored with it, gas a few more generations...all in the name of "safety" to the U.S.....how stupid does that, and the people who mutter such a thing, sound?
Who gives a sh!t about the Iraqis? I can assure you that when they were out dancing in the streets immediately after they received the news about the attacks on the WTC that they didn't particularly care for us.