Another reason why deregulation and lack of oversight is a bad thing. Madoff associates

[Vette73]

Affidavit: Madoff associates knew of scheme, joined anyway

Yet another reason why deregulation and lack of oversight is a bad thing. The whole "free market" thing is BS. Even when people know they are doing is wrong and ruining people?s lives they still do it ?because of the big money they could make?. You would have thought after Enron we would be more on oversight and regulation yet this happened well after Enron.
So where are all the conservative/republican people that kept screaming we need to stay hands off and have the market be free now?


And any Congressman/senator that took money from these companies to get rid of regulation/oversight (Democrat or Republican) should have to answer as well.

 

[Lemon law]

I agree, every time we relax regulations, we get burned.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Affidavit: Madoff associates knew of scheme, joined anyway

Yet another reason why deregulation and lack of oversight is a bad thing. The whole "free market" thing is BS. Even when people know they are doing is wrong and ruining people?s lives they still do it ?because of the big money they could make?. You would have thought after Enron we would be more on oversight and regulation yet this happened well after Enron.
So where are all the conservative/republican people that kept screaming we need to stay hands off and have the market be free now?


And any Congressman/senator that took money from these companies to get rid of regulation/oversight (Democrat or Republican) should have to answer as well.

Where in this does it say a lack of oversight caused this? Not that I believe in anarchy but your premise this is a free market problem seems flawed and baseless.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Where in this does it say a lack of oversight caused this? Not that I believe in anarchy but your premise this is a free market problem seems flawed and baseless.

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Affidavit: Madoff associates knew of scheme, joined anyway

Yet another reason why deregulation and lack of oversight is a bad thing. The whole "free market" thing is BS. Even when people know they are doing is wrong and ruining people?s lives they still do it ?because of the big money they could make?. You would have thought after Enron we would be more on oversight and regulation yet this happened well after Enron.
So where are all the conservative/republican people that kept screaming we need to stay hands off and have the market be free now?


And any Congressman/senator that took money from these companies to get rid of regulation/oversight (Democrat or Republican) should have to answer as well.

Where in this does it say a lack of oversight caused this? Not that I believe in anarchy but your premise this is a free market problem seems flawed and baseless.

"He noted that, for years, fund managers with similar levels of training and experience had been suspicious of the amount of money Madoff had been able to earn and had avoided working with him."

That and the guy that went to SEC and complained that it was scam. Nothing happened as there was little to no regulation over it and was setup as a "free market" police yourself. This is already known. In fact one of the new regulations/rules they are talking about is being called the Madoff rule.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87

Where in this does it say a lack of oversight caused this? Not that I believe in anarchy but your premise this is a free market problem seems flawed and baseless.

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Like what? What oversight besides what is already out there do you suggest would have stopped this act of fraud?

Or is this going to be the new rallying cry for the left? Because we softened derivitives and CDS regulation all financial trading regulation was stopped?

This guy has been doing this for nearl 2 decades. Long before the softening of regulation that helped lead us to the current mortgage mess.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Affidavit: Madoff associates knew of scheme, joined anyway

Yet another reason why deregulation and lack of oversight is a bad thing. The whole "free market" thing is BS. Even when people know they are doing is wrong and ruining people?s lives they still do it ?because of the big money they could make?. You would have thought after Enron we would be more on oversight and regulation yet this happened well after Enron.
So where are all the conservative/republican people that kept screaming we need to stay hands off and have the market be free now?


And any Congressman/senator that took money from these companies to get rid of regulation/oversight (Democrat or Republican) should have to answer as well.

Where in this does it say a lack of oversight caused this? Not that I believe in anarchy but your premise this is a free market problem seems flawed and baseless.

"He noted that, for years, fund managers with similar levels of training and experience had been suspicious of the amount of money Madoff had been able to earn and had avoided working with him."

That and the guy that went to SEC and complained that it was scam. Nothing happened as there was little to no regulation over it and was setup as a "free market" police yourself. This is already known. In fact one of the new regulations/rules they are talking about is being called the Madoff rule.

So what you are saying is the regulatory body failed in its duty to investigate an obvious act of fraud and you blame that on the free market? That makes complete and total sense.

As for the observation. Anybody with half a brain should know something funky is going on when you are getting 20% returns in 6 months over an extended period of time. That doenst prove anything except there were a lot of suckers who let their greed blind them into believing Madoff was some financial Jesus, turning water into wine.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

I agree it will not fix some peoples nature, but it can keep it in check and not let it get as big as this.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

Definitely.

And the SEC totally dropped the ball, or they were just in bed, with Madoff.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

Definitely.

And the SEC totally dropped the ball, or they were just in bed, with Madoff.

Let me get this right....when someone commits fraud...it it is everyone elses fault because we've been very naughty?

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

Definitely.

And the SEC totally dropped the ball, or they were just in bed, with Madoff.

60 Minutes did a great piece on the whistle blower on Madoff. He had been complaining since 1999 or 2000(!) about what was going on in Madoff's company. In a nutshell he said that the SEC was basically a bunch of lawyers with no financial experience at all. They didn't or wouldn't know what to look for--and that is why Madoff was able to pull off what he did. I'm at work, but I bet you could find the piece somewhere.

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me here, maybe its time to point out that for awhile, Madoff was the SEC head or some similar mucki muck.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me here, maybe its time to point out that for awhile, Madoff was the SEC head or some similar mucki muck.

It's probably how he figured to beat the system. He was head of the SEC before he started his 'business' of looting people of their livelyhood.

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me here, maybe its time to point out that for awhile, Madoff was the SEC head or some similar mucki muck.

It's probably how he figured to beat the system. He was head of the SEC before he started his 'business' of looting people of their livelyhood.

He used to be the chairman of NASDAQ, not SEC.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Do you think that if there had been more regulated oversight instead of the softening of regulations that this would have be able to survive the decade like it did?

Yes because individuals are greedy, and will find loopholes or ways around regulation to fuel their greed.

This has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with our values as a society. At the end of the day, individuals purchased homes they knew damn well they couldn't afford, and were lent money by individuals who knew damn well that what they were doing was wrong.

Government regulation can't fix stupid, change human nature or control greed.

Definitely.

And the SEC totally dropped the ball, or they were just in bed, with Madoff.

Let me get this right....when someone commits fraud...it it is everyone elses fault because we've been very naughty?

I didn't say that.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: sciwizam

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me here, maybe its time to point out that for awhile, Madoff was the SEC head or some similar mucki muck.

It's probably how he figured to beat the system. He was head of the SEC before he started his 'business' of looting people of their livelyhood.

He used to be the chairman of NASDAQ, not SEC.

Ah, my bad.

 

[ProfJohn]

If deregulation was the cause of this then you should be able to show us what rules or regulations were changed to make this possible.

We will be waiting...

 

[BoberFett]

Sounds like a failure of government, not the free market.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Sounds like a failure of government, not the free market.

Government failure to Regulate, Free Market failure to Regulate.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Sounds like a failure of government, not the free market.

Government failure to Regulate, Free Market failure to Regulate.

Do you think Madoff would have been able to run his scheme so well if it had not been the economic boom?

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Sounds like a failure of government, not the free market.

Government failure to Regulate, Free Market failure to Regulate.

No, it was the free market that exposed him--it just took govt. regulators 8 years to act on it.

 

[Fern]

It's a fraud problem. Not a regulation or free market problem. Getting rid of the free market won't help, to suggest so is claim that there is no fraud under other systems. So there was no fruad under communist Russia, there is none under Chavez?

There are already rules/laws against it. More regulations aren't really needed; enforcement is. No matter how many rules/laws you make, they are pointless without enforcement.

As a financial professional I see this often. The "this" being fraud basically ignored by the authorities when complaints are filed.

The S.E.C. didn't do it's job; that's been made clear I think. The answer isn't more regulations and more layers of ineffective bureaucracy; the answer is fixing what we have.

BTW: The last I heard was that this fraud is now suspected to have begun as far back as the mid-80's.

Fern

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Sounds like a failure of government, not the free market.

Government failure to Regulate, Free Market failure to Regulate.

How does one regulate fraud?

 

[Specop 007]

Let me get this right. The .gov has been finger fucking the "free markets" for decades with rules and regulations and now your bitching that what we have is a "free market" and we need regulations??

Fuck that, we havent had a truly free market since Columbus took off from Europe.