Another New System (Non-Gamer)

[JuanT]

Seems kinda odd, but my church wants a new PC for their use and they've asked me to look into getting one, possibly two.

As I've been wholly absorbed into gaming I haven't checked out any benchmarks for office applications like Powerpoint which will be used. No one has even told me what they use to project the image on the screen.

But for now, I need to worry about the system itself.

I've looked at an AMD solution over my favoured retailer here in Canada, and I've looked at Dell with their "Free" upgrade to an 80 GB harddrive when you're not actually given a lower on. Where another 512MB of ram is an extra 150 bucks.

I could go on and on, and it might just be the cynical gamer in me, but I'll bet that I'd get a better system for the same price as whatever Dell gives me.

In short, I need a 'small office' computer. MS Office 2003 and maybe Win XP Pro (maybe just Home) will be purchased with the system and Dell gives me the creeps.

If an Intel based PC would be better suited for this than AMD, then please have no worries about recommending one. I'll try very hard not to recommend a DFI Lanparty SLI with dual 6800 Ultras... This is not really a budget PC, it should be fairly modern (no Athlon XPs, I know it's solid but it's also old and they want something shiny).

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I would go with a Dell. You can get a nice system from them and the support is more than worth it. Sure you can build a nice PC on your own but for something like this I think they're better off going with something that's going to be well supported and very stable.
Something like a Dimension 8300 would be a nice machine.

 

[suicidalpigeon]

so like..how much does this thing need to be at most?

 

[suicidalpigeon]

dell stinks, the only pre built pcs i might get are emachines.

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: wafflesandsyrup
dell stinks, the only pre built pcs i might get are emachines.

You need to realize that "dell stinks" is your opinion, as many of us may think that emachines suck.

 

[mircea]

You don't need a lot of power for church PC's unless you also edit audio and video taken during sermons. If you don't do any audio or video, then get anything that has a low end dual VGA/DVI connectors and DirectX9.0 compatible card (6200 or X300). You need a current video card because at church they might use more than Power Point, like Easy Worship or SongShowPlus which uses some powerfull effects that depend on hardware, and you need dual connectors to be able to use the PC as Dual monitor (1 monitor + 1 Projector)

So I say go prebuild, Dell or anyone else, for their tech support, because there will allways be problems operating this in church and you don't want to get stuck with "fixing" Power Point
I know how it is because we can't get tech support here in Romania, and I was called during exam cuz the projector wasn't recieving any signal when Power Point was on :roll:

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: mircea
You don't need a lot of power for church PC's unless you also edit audio and video taken during sermons. If you don't do any audio or video, then get anything that has a low end dual VGA/DVI connectors and DirectX9.0 compatible card (6200 or X300). You need a current video card because at church they might use more than Power Point, like Easy Worship or SongShowPlus which uses some powerfull effects that depend on hardware, and you need dual connectors to be able to use the PC as Dual monitor (1 monitor + 1 Projector)

Can't add anything to that, you're right on...

So I say go prebuild, Dell or anyone else, for their tech support, because there will allways be problems operating this in church and you don't want to get stuck with "fixing" Power Point
I know how it is because we can't get tech support here in Romania, and I was called during exam cuz the projector wasn't recieving any signal when Power Point was on :roll:

Again, pre-built is the way to go (definitely not emachines, contrary to one person above) for the support. You do not want to get stuck troubleshooting computers for the rest of your life (many less technically inclined churches expect computers to last for 6 to 10 years, which is a bit unreasonable, but the "committee" at the church I work with didn't get this even after much explanation).

Find out if audio editing (especially multi-track) is a part of the requirements, because then you'll need to increase the RAM to 1GB at least, and make sure the processor is beefy enough (no Celerons). Also, of course, the hard disk space will need to be much greater (and you'll probably need two or three of them) if video comes into the picture.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: wafflesandsyrup
dell stinks, the only pre built pcs i might get are emachines.

LOL, you are bashing Dell and comparing it to eMachines? I hope that is sarcasm

OP: A Dell machine would be perfect for you. Maybe look around (or wait) for a good coupon and scoop up a Dimension.

 

[JuanT]

Looks like Dell is the way to go.

Specifically what vidcard can I use that has all the extra stuff already with in a Dell system?

I guess I should go over Dell.ca with a fine tooth comb.

 

[Cheezeit]

Integrated gfx is usally fine for chuches

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Cheezeit
Integrated gfx is usally fine for chuches

Wrong. Read the thread.

Originally posted by: JuanT
Looks like Dell is the way to go.

Specifically what vidcard can I use that has all the extra stuff already with in a Dell system?

I guess I should go over Dell.ca with a fine tooth comb.

We ended up with the FireGL V3100 because we started with a Precision 370, but if you're not looking in their workstation line, then basic NVidia or ATI PCI-E graphics with dual output (VGA and DVI, or two DVIs if they plan to have a flat panel and a projector with digital input) would be fine (6200 or X300, perhaps).

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Semprons and Athlon 64s are the way to go, no matter what applications you're doing. Plus, Dell's prices are generally higher than HP/Compaq's, with a couple rare exceptions.

My advice: get an AMD-based system from HP/Compaq (www.hp.com). They're inexpensive, reliable, and fast.

EDIT: It seems that HP Canada doesn't offer a wide range of AMD options, so you may have to go Intel, after all.

 

[imported_rod]

Benchmarks for Powerpoint?!?!? LOL
If my old Pentium 200MMX can do a power point presentation without falling over, Im sure todays cheapest Dell can do so.

Dell seem good. Personally I'd never buy a pre-built machine, but if I were being tortured by psychotic Neo-Nazis, who were forcing me to buy pre-built, I would buy a Dell. (That's a reccomendation for Dell b.t.w.).

RoD

 

[mircea]

Too late.

I got to stop eating while posting

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: rod
Benchmarks for Powerpoint?!?!? LOL
If my old Pentium 200MMX can do a power point presentation without falling over, Im sure todays cheapest Dell can do so.

Before getting the Precision 370, we had an ancient HP system with a 766MHz Celeron and an additional ATI Rage something-or-other video card for the projector output. PowerPoint "worked," but transitions were terribly slow and choppy. I'm not saying that you have to have the latest and greatest for good PP performance, but when smooth and unobtrusive fades are required, a system with some degree of modern-ality is required.

Dell seem good. Personally I'd never buy a pre-built machine, but if I were being tortured by psychotic Neo-Nazis, who were forcing me to buy pre-built, I would buy a Dell. (That's a reccomendation for Dell b.t.w.).

LOL.

HPaq is also worth considering for an A64 system, so long as you avoid integrated video (as always!).

 

[imported_rod]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Semprons and Athlon 64s are the way to go, no matter what applications you're doing. Plus, Dell's prices are generally higher than HP/Compaq's, with a couple rare exceptions.

My advice: get an AMD-based system from HP/Compaq (www.hp.com). They're inexpensive, reliable, and fast.

EDIT: It seems that HP Canada doesn't offer a wide range of AMD options, so you may have to go Intel, after all.

For something like this, performance isn't really a consideration. ANY brand new computer has far more power than powerpoint could ever hope to use. Go intel, pre-built, you'll probably get a better system for the price.

Integrated graphics will definately be powerful enough, but it may not have enough outputs for dual monitors. Then again, it may. If not, just make sure you can throw in a video card, or get Dell to do it. I think they offer the option to get an X300 in alot of their systems.

Also, since it's a church, you *might be able to get a discount*. I'm pretty sure Micro$oft offers cheap software to churches, under similar liscencing to school's and uni's etc...

RoD

PS: If you have old ppl going to church, who's eye sight is failing, make sure they dont mistake the "D" in "Dell" for an "H".:evil: Could get messy.

 

[JuanT]

I'm gonna hafta go with an nVidia solution, I love ATI but I'm a gamer and I can handle frequent driver problems (when they crop up). The GeForce line seems at least more stable, so I'll go with the 6200 if it has dual DVI/VGA whatever.

 

[imported_rod]

Originally posted by: JuanT
I'm gonna hafta go with an nVidia solution, I love ATI but I'm a gamer and I can handle frequent driver problems (when they crop up). The GeForce line seems at least more stable, so I'll go with the 6200 if it has dual DVI/VGA whatever.

I would have reccomended a 6200 with dual ouputs, but since Dell only really offer ATI, the X300 is the way to go.

RoD

 

[mircea]

Integrated grafics doesn't work because of need for Dual View, and because even new chips have some features disabled that are needed by dedicated church programs. I have tested 4 systems with integrated video and one system with a GF3 TI200 and FX5200 and they all failed to show more than half the effects used by SongShowPlus. And like ProviaFan was saying churches keep the PC until it dies so you need to have all the available features (not power) when you buy it so it can keep up with the software that will come.

 

[ryanv12]

Well I wouldn't recommend integrated graphics because the image quality isn't very good. Not to mention only one output.

I also think the Dell will be great.

 

[vrbaba]

Simple answer: Cheapest you can find during the July 4 deals at best buy, comp USA, or circuit city. Dont matter if its Dell, emachines, anything. Seriosuly...it does NOT matter. you will get warranty with those stores, plus manufacturers warranty. And if you are really concerned, get a $80-100 plan from those stores, and you will be set. You will save a lot more.
And NO QUESTION, go Intel.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: vrbaba
Simple answer: Cheapest you can find during the July 4 deals at best buy, comp USA, or circuit city. Dont matter if its Dell, emachines, anything. Seriosuly...it does NOT matter. you will get warranty with those stores, plus manufacturers warranty. And if you are really concerned, get a $80-100 plan from those stores, and you will be set. You will save a lot more.

Hey, I totally forgot about Best Buy!

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10055784&catid=20217
Compaq Presario SR1320NX
Windows XP Home SP2
Sempron 3100+
512 MB RAM
integrated graphics
80 GB hard disk
DVD burner
and all the fixin's (5.1 audio, 10/100 LAN, 56K modem, front USB/firewire, etc.)
CA$600

If out-of-stock, you could try this Celeron D system with nearly identical features (also CA$600):
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10058764&catid=20217

17" LCD -- http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10047511&catid=20371
CA$300

...or...

17" CRT -- http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10046488&catid=20369
CA$150

There's no shipping if you buy in-store, and you should be able to avoid taxes by getting a not-for-profit form from the church.

And NO QUESTION, go Intel.

They're overpriced and perform badly. I mean, I could understand buying Intel if you found some super-great Celeron D deal, but why would you want one if a comparably-priced AMD system was available?

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: wafflesandsyrup
dell stinks, the only pre built pcs i might get are emachines.

LOL, you are bashing Dell and comparing it to eMachines? I hope that is sarcasm

OP: A Dell machine would be perfect for you. Maybe look around (or wait) for a good coupon and scoop up a Dimension.

I tried to point that out too, I don't think he wants to comment now on that statement.....lol

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10055784&catid=20217

If out-of-stock, you could try this Celeron D system with nearly identical features (also CA$600):
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetai...N&sku_id=0926INGFS10058764&catid=20217

Both of those have horrible integrated graphics with single output, and no decent way to upgrade to a better dual-output graphics card (PCI will be too slow and is not an option). Again, for the last time, integrated graphics should not be considered for one second for this application. Get a dedicated graphics card on the AGP or PCI-E bus!

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: ProviaFan
Both of those have horrible integrated graphics with single output, and no decent way to upgrade to a better dual-output graphics card (PCI will be too slow and is not an option). Again, for the last time, integrated graphics should not be considered for one second for this application. Get a dedicated graphics card on the AGP or PCI-E bus!

First of all, where did Juan say he needed dual output graphics? I read all his posts, and found nothing at all about that. Secondly, why are integrated graphics so horrible? I'm guessing the church doesn't want kids playing games like Doom 3 or Battlefield 2, so where's the harm in sticking with 64MB shared VRAM?

Finally, those PCs do indeed have AGP slots.