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Another neighborhood watch beating up a black teen

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,361
8
0
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-ci-werdesheim-trial-motions-20120424,0,2676668.story

Avi and Eliyahu Werdesheim, Jewish brothers accused of beating a black teen while guarding their Park Heights neighborhood,
According to police records, Eliyahu Werdesheim was a member of Shomrim, an Orthodox Jewish citizens' watch group, on Nov. 19, 2010, when he allegedly confronted 15-year-old Corey Ausby in the Park Heights area, telling him, "You don't belong around here." His brother, now 21, supposedly threw the boy to the ground, the police account claims, and one of the brothers is said to have hit Ausby with a hand-held radio.
Both men have pleaded not guilty to the charges, and attorneys have claimed Ausby was armed with a nail-studded board and attacked first. Ausby, who appeared in court Tuesday as a witness, has not been charged in the incident. The Werdesheims are charged with second-degree assault, false imprisonment and carrying a deadly weapon with the intent to injure.
Defense lawyers also sought to suppress a 911 call by a man who saw the incident and called for police to check it out, describing it as a citizens group of white male members in three to four cars who had stopped a "black youth" and were "holding him to the ground."

"I'm not sure what it's about," the man told emergency dispatchers, "but it doesn't [appear] right."
There's no charge of this being a hate crime???
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
Sounds like a crime to me, but we don't know enough details. Why does a 15 year old have a "nail studded board" with him at night? If true, that changes the scenario, but it looks to me like the two guys that allegedly attacked the 15 year old will be tried.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,816
3,622
126
Sounds like a crime to me, but we don't know enough details. Why does a 15 year old have a "nail studded board" with him at night? If true, that changes the scenario, but it looks to me like the two guys that allegedly attacked the 15 year old will be tried.
There could be something, I guess, to this 'not enough details' thing.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Its hard to spin this as a hate crime since there are two minority groups involved. Look at Zimmerman, the only thing keeping his case as a possible hate crime is that he is half white, and we are constantly reminded of that by the media everytime they talk about his case. Zimmerman is the "Son of a White man and a Hispanic mother" as the media says in every story - its so integral to their version of events that we must be reminded constantly that his white half may have committed a hate crime. If Z was just a standard Hispanic with both parents from Latin America the case would not be labeled as a hate crime and we also would likely never have heard about it either.

As far as this case goes...GL trying to label two Jewish men as hate crime perpetrators. If that looks likely then expect them to show up in court next time wearing Yalmakas and the media will instantly back off.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Its hard to spin this as a hate crime since there are two minority groups involved. Look at Zimmerman, the only thing keeping his case as a possible hate crime is that he is half white, and we are constantly reminded of that by the media everytime they talk about his case. Zimmerman is the "Son of a White man and a Hispanic mother" as the media says in every story - its so integral to their version of events that we must be reminded constantly that his white half may have committed a hate crime. If Z was just a standard Hispanic with both parents from Latin America the case would not be labeled as a hate crime and we also would likely never have heard about it either.
I hardly think that Jews are incapable of racism. Either minority group is capable of racism. That said, I have no opinion about this particular case one way or the other.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
I hardly think that Jews are incapable of racism. Either minority group is capable of racism. That said, I have no opinion about this particular case one way or the other.

Any group can do it. But its not PC to talk about it, let alone file charges against minorities for hate crimes. There are far to many cases where a white person is a victim and there are no hate crime charges filed, yet if the roles were reversed hell would freeze over as Al/Jesse Jackson march to that city in their search for being constantly outraged.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,478
3,078
126
Any group can do it. But its not PC to talk about it, let alone file charges against minorities for hate crimes. There are far to many cases where a white person is a victim and there are no hate crime charges filed, yet if the roles were reversed hell would freeze over as Al/Jesse Jackson march to that city in their search for being constantly outraged.
awwwwwwwww
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,816
3,622
126
Its hard to spin this as a hate crime since there are two minority groups involved. Look at Zimmerman, the only thing keeping his case as a possible hate crime is that he is half white, and we are constantly reminded of that by the media everytime they talk about his case. Zimmerman is the "Son of a White man and a Hispanic mother" as the media says in every story - its so integral to their version of events that we must be reminded constantly that his white half may have committed a hate crime. If Z was just a standard Hispanic with both parents from Latin America the case would not be labeled as a hate crime and we also would likely never have heard about it either.

As far as this case goes...GL trying to label two Jewish men as hate crime perpetrators. If that looks likely then expect them to show up in court next time wearing Yalmakas and the media will instantly back off.
Must be why Obama is half black or is it just black.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,911
1,063
126

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Any group can do it. But its not PC to talk about it, let alone file charges against minorities for hate crimes. There are far to many cases where a white person is a victim and there are no hate crime charges filed, yet if the roles were reversed hell would freeze over as Al/Jesse Jackson march to that city in their search for being constantly outraged.
Too many cases? Based on what, some anecdotes you read about online? Find me some stats about hate crime charges against minorities versus whites relative to the total amount of inter-racial violence going both ways. Otherwise, you're just repeating an article of faith of those who oppose the idea of hate crimes.

Bear in mind that a hate crime enhancement requires proof of the motive of racial animus. Most crimes of interracial violence are not going to be prosecuted as hate crimes.
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
The whole concept of hate crimes is idiotic.
Not sure if I agree.

I usually agree with South Park's analysis of these sorts of things, but I couldn't resolve the issue when they took on hate crimes.. They're argument was that the motivation for a crime shouldn't affect the sentencing.

Okay. Then 911 wasn't a terrorist act. It was just murder.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,464
2
0
sounds like a serious lack of details to make any decisoin here, as much as you guys would all love to be on the race-bait-fail-boat
 

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,816
11
0
the shomrim group sounds like bad news. did they really outlaw bike lanes in a section of New York because they don't like women riding by in short skirts?

http://jonathanturley.org/2009/12/10/new-york-city-erases-bike-lands-to-appease-hasidic-men-who-object-to-seeing-women-in-bike-shorts/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/bike_war_paint_g7EizkFEZktV3IlNUJosQM

i've read several stories about New York neighborhoods that are run by hasidic or orthodox jews harassing regular new yorkers.

http://gothamist.com/2012/01/24/hasidic_jewish_landlord_in_crown_he.php
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,361
8
0
Not sure if I agree.

I usually agree with South Park's analysis of these sorts of things, but I couldn't resolve the issue when they took on hate crimes.. They're argument was that the motivation for a crime shouldn't affect the sentencing.

Okay. Then 911 wasn't a terrorist act. It was just murder.
Scrawling racist epithets on a victim's place of residence is just graffiti (vandalism) which is a misdemeanor.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,624
1
0
Not sure if I agree.

I usually agree with South Park's analysis of these sorts of things, but I couldn't resolve the issue when they took on hate crimes.. They're argument was that the motivation for a crime shouldn't affect the sentencing.

Okay. Then 911 wasn't a terrorist act. It was just murder.
It was mass murder and terrorism.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,102
7,598
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It was mass murder and terrorism.
What's the difference in a crime between terror and hate? Are there not already laws in place for the actions conducted by the "terrorists"? Whitey kills a few black men for being black, thats just murder. Muslim kills a few people for being American, murder AND terrorism?
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,624
1
0
What's the difference in a crime between terror and hate? Are there not already laws in place for the actions conducted by the "terrorists"? Whitey kills a few black men for being black, thats just murder. Muslim kills a few people for being American, murder AND terrorism?
I think its just a societal identification of the type of threat that is posed by certain people.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,267
3
76
What's the difference in a crime between terror and hate? Are there not already laws in place for the actions conducted by the "terrorists"? Whitey kills a few black men for being black, thats just murder. Muslim kills a few people for being American, murder AND terrorism?
The difference is terrorist acts are usually to further a goal for religion, politics, or ideology.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
Its hard to spin this as a hate crime since there are two minority groups involved. Look at Zimmerman, the only thing keeping his case as a possible hate crime is that he is half white, and we are constantly reminded of that by the media everytime they talk about his case. Zimmerman is the "Son of a White man and a Hispanic mother" as the media says in every story - its so integral to their version of events that we must be reminded constantly that his white half may have committed a hate crime. If Z was just a standard Hispanic with both parents from Latin America the case would not be labeled as a hate crime and we also would likely never have heard about it either.

As far as this case goes...GL trying to label two Jewish men as hate crime perpetrators. If that looks likely then expect them to show up in court next time wearing Yalmakas and the media will instantly back off.

If you call it a hate crime, you're anti-semitic!
 

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