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Another Hotfix tuesday re W7 (Sigh)

Virgorising

Virgorising

Diamond Member
Hi.

Just see it's another Hotfix Tuesday for W7. (Not getting the optional ones.)

Makes me wonder yet AGAIN......given, Apple OSes seem not to need any of this we take for granted, and those I know who have MACs consider this totally foreign...why MS can't write an OS without infinite holes requiring infinite patches???????? WHY?????

And please, nobody be like, well, Apple has smaller marketshare and so fewer malcontents try to infect or hack them. NOT TRUE.
 
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Virgorising said:
those I know who have MACs consider this totally foreign...why MS can't write an OS without infinite holes requiring infinite patches???????? WHY?????
Click to expand...
Because there are people doing things and storing things that have real value on MS's OS's, unlike with Macs.
Also, the majority of Mac users do not understand much about computers, Apple makes it easy enough that they don't really need to either. Apple focuses on UX/UI, scheduled obsolescence, and tax evasion, often leaving software vulnerabilities un-patched.

Hotfixes are a good thing and the apparent lack of them on MacOSX does not necessarily mean there are no vulnerabilities.

Virgorising said:
And please, nobody be like, well, Apple has smaller marketshare and so fewer malcontents try to infect or hack them. NOT TRUE.
Click to expand...
How is this not true?
 
I didn't get any Debian updates at all last night. Very distressing. I haven't had an updateless day since last year I think. Hope I get some good stuff tonight.
 
MrColin said:
Because there are people doing things and storing things that have real value on MS's OS's, unlike with Macs.
Also, the majority of Mac users do not understand much about computers, Apple makes it easy enough that they don't really need to either. Apple focuses on UX/UI, scheduled obsolescence, and tax evasion, often leaving software vulnerabilities un-patched.

Hotfixes are a good thing and the apparent lack of them on MacOSX does not necessarily mean there are no vulnerabilities.


How is this not true?
Click to expand...

Hi.

I could not agree more re the puter skills of the average MAC user! But I try not to diss my friends who go there....or be a bigot, or ever generalize,. given that is never a good route to learning. I know a guy who works at Adobe on the left coast. He is one of the most tech savvy humans I know. And he only goes Apple. I also have a girlfriend with decent puter skills who saved until she could finally get her 27' imac. And she does important things with her systems.

You make good points.....but I am still, no way convinced that the vulnerabiltities we who run windows have come to take for granted should be taken for granted.

Re my anticipating the usual argument re marketshare disparities....Apple's marketshare has been growing consistently and impressively for many years. While their OSes are not completely impervious to infection/hacking, from all I have read and been told by MAC users who are not morons, they are FAR MORE impervious than ANY VERSION OF Windows.

Re hotfixes being a good thing.....well sure, given they are clearly a NECESSARY THING.

I remain confused.😕
 
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lxskllr said:
I didn't get any Debian updates at all last night. Very distressing. I haven't had an updateless day since last year I think. Hope I get some good stuff tonight.
Click to expand...


I am entirely clueless re all things Linux.:'( So, how could I have known it needs even more patches than Windows? Cause that is what it sounds like.😱

But that kind of count yr blessings, I have it worse.....perhaps not the real issue.
 
Virgorising said:
I am entirely clueless re all things Linux.:'( So, how could I have known it needs even more patches than Windows? Cause that is what it sounds like.😱
Click to expand...

Software without bugs isn't worth running, because anything that doesn't have bugs is so simple, it would be just as easy to do with a pencil and paper. Bugs aren't what matters. What matters is the speed of identification, and fixes.
 
lxskllr said:
Software without bugs isn't worth running, because anything that doesn't have bugs is so simple, it would be just as easy to do with a pencil and paper. Bugs aren't what matters. What matters is the speed of identification, and fixes.
Click to expand...


Interesting premise. Not sure it's valid, but it IS interesting.😎

Being a fitness nut, I think of the now long disproven, "No pain, no gain."
 
Virgorising said:
Makes me wonder yet AGAIN......given, Apple OSes seem not to need any of this we take for granted, and those I know who have MACs consider this totally foreign...why MS can't write an OS without infinite holes requiring infinite patches???????? WHY?????
Click to expand...

I'm a heavy user of both Macs* and Windows, and while no OS is perfectly secure, the Mac OS is genuinely harder to infect, if you don't include people typing their admin password in to install malware. (If you give away the keys to the castle, it doesn't matter how thick the door is.) I think its UNIX roots play a large part in that.

That said, the Mac OS most definitely does get security patches on a regular basis. Not as frequently as Windows, but not infrequent by any means. In 2013 alone, Mac OS has had three minor system updates (which include prior security fixes) -- 10.8.3, 10.8.4, and 10.8.5 -- as well as four separate Security Updates that were released inbetween system updates. It also separately updates Java as necessary to plug its numerous vulnerabilities.

So yes, Apple definitely does patch its software regularly for security issues. Here's a page listing recent security-related updates Apple has released for its various products, including 28 just this year: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222



* Mac is a contraction of Macintosh. MAC (in all caps) is Media Access Control, a communication protocol.
 
CA19100 said:
I'm a heavy user of both Macs* and Windows, and while no OS is perfectly secure, the Mac OS is genuinely harder to infect, if you don't include people typing their admin password in to install malware. (If you give away the keys to the castle, it doesn't matter how thick the door is.) I think its UNIX roots play a large part in that.

That said, the Mac OS most definitely does get security patches on a regular basis. Not as frequently as Windows, but not infrequent by any means. In 2013 alone, Mac OS has had three minor system updates (which include prior security fixes) -- 10.8.3, 10.8.4, and 10.8.5 -- as well as four separate Security Updates that were released inbetween system updates. It also separately updates Java as necessary to plug its numerous vulnerabilities.

So yes, Apple definitely does patch its software regularly for security issues. Here's a page listing recent security-related updates Apple has released for its various products, including 28 just this year: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222


* Mac is a contraction of Macintosh. MAC (in all caps) is Media Access Control, a communication protocol.
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT POST!:thumbsup::thumbsup: I am now delving, and put up a link below with very interesting hard data.

As I posted, sad, but it makes me feel better re running Windows!!! So, from now on, I will be less of a brat re hotfixes and service packs and all that stuff.

Learning, truly is a great adventure and privilege! And now, I stand enlightened!!!!:biggrin:
 
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WilliamM2 said:
It's from September 2013. Here's another source you may like better:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/02/windows-8-jumps-past-os-x-for-74-market-share
Click to expand...


Now that I am delving, I see you have a point,:\ I apologize.

So many people I know have MACS (correction, Macs), and go on and on and on about them....and you visit any college campus, most students own them.

Too often, I say to myself, often on Hotfix Tuesdays,"If you had a brain, you would not still be running Windows". Just cause I posted (then also delved)....I think that's kinda over!🙂
_________________________________________
Edit: just learned ALL puter sales are declining. I think, cause most people and most businesses have all the puter they need. Can't believe, given the inherent, serious limitations of tablets, that that could account for it.
 
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While I am doing the latest batch of critical/important updates as I write this, the one that scares me the most is the MSE application update. That was the app on my old W7 PC that could not update, mating with instability issues, and causing me to build a new PC last weekend. Let's see how this less than one week old W7 install handles this MSE app update.

BTW, I do not know which is worse. The Windows updates or those for the Xbox 360. Twice this year I had to pull the power cord on the Xbox to get it working again. Had BSOD (Black Screen Of Death) until I whacked the power.
 
If you were a hacker would you write a virus/malicious code that could attack 90% of all computers (running Windows) or less than 3% of all computers (Mac OS)?
 
pete6032 said:
If you were a hacker would you write a virus/malicious code that could attack 90% of all computers (running Windows) or less than 3% of all computers (Mac OS)?
Click to expand...

Macs generally do not have virus killers, and their users tend not to be very security aware. So Macs are becoming a more and more juicy target.
 
Relevant as ever: NSA Researcher says Macs are LESS secure than Windows

There are 3 reasons you don't see as much malware for Macs YET:
  • Low market share makes them less of a target
  • Limited utility and bad UI makes hackers not want to bother getting a mac
  • Higher cost of entry to get a Mac and corresponding development tools

Windows 8/8.1 and end-of-lifing Windows 7 will change the status of the first 2 items on that list. As the Apple market share climbs, they will become far more malware infested than Windows ME or XP ever was at its peak.

Also, when considering the market share numbers, another thing to consider is that a business is a much juicier target than an individual. Apple's market share is much smaller for businesses.
 
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oynaz said:
Macs generally do not have virus killers, and their users tend not to be very security aware. So Macs are becoming a more and more juicy target.
Click to expand...

Yep, add to that the similarities of iOS, they are becoming a much more juicy target.

A friend of mine got a Mac, switched from pc, because he liked the looks and they ever so popular, "Macs don't get viruses". I tried to explain it to him but it didn't help.

So a while later i get a call from him, he asks me how to remove a virus from his Mac. He'd actually managed to get one from an e-mail that was sent to him from a friends infected windows machine. After i stopped laughing, i had to tell him i really wasn't sure. I've hardly ever touched a mac. I'd like to have one just to get to know the OS, but that's it. I did some research and sent him some links of stuff to try. It got rid of most of it but it still wasn't right. Sent in instructions on how to do a reinstall. He didn't want to do that. Eventually he spilled coffee on it and bought another one. He was actually looking to buy a replacement before he split the coffee on it, i think the coffee just sped up the process.

Just like on windows, he wasn't doing the updates or hadn't did them in a while. Ad to that, not much push for run av programs on Macs that i've seen.

I've had someone at work tell me their personal iPhone was infected. I asked to see it, but never got to see it. They took it by the carrier and i think all they did was wipe/reset it because he was complaining about not having his files on the phone anymore. He wasn't syncing/backing it up either.

So yes, there are security holes in iOS and Mac OS and they do release updates for them. They just don't come out as often and i've read they just don't even try to fix some of them. I must say i don't know if that was a good source where i read that. But if anyone has followed them now and then, you should have seen them drag their feet on a few instances on patching or helping people fix their machines that got infected. They eventually caved only due to the media attention it got. Ad all of that to the bullshit nonsense that Macs don't get viruses and just plain ignorance of most of their users, this is why this kind of question keeps coming up.

I'm not sure if Apple offers this in iOS or Mac OSx, but they should offer and default to a automatic update system like windows. I wonder how many Mac users will read that and think FU.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
While I am doing the latest batch of critical/important updates as I write this, the one that scares me the most is the MSE application update. That was the app on my old W7 PC that could not update, mating with instability issues, and causing me to build a new PC last weekend. Let's see how this less than one week old W7 install handles this MSE app update.

BTW, I do not know which is worse. The Windows updates or those for the Xbox 360. Twice this year I had to pull the power cord on the Xbox to get it working again. Had BSOD (Black Screen Of Death) until I whacked the power.
Click to expand...


O M G. Now....I am upset again. I got the last batch, as usual without a hitch. I had no patience to read about the optional ones, so I just left them.

I have no console anything. Cause I ain no gamer. But, I believe you.
 
JoeBleed said:
Yep, add to that the similarities of iOS, they are becoming a much more juicy target.

A friend of mine got a Mac, switched from pc, because he liked the looks and they ever so popular, "Macs don't get viruses". I tried to explain it to him but it didn't help.

So a while later i get a call from him, he asks me how to remove a virus from his Mac. He'd actually managed to get one from an e-mail that was sent to him from a friends infected windows machine. After i stopped laughing, i had to tell him i really wasn't sure. I've hardly ever touched a mac. I'd like to have one just to get to know the OS, but that's it. I did some research and sent him some links of stuff to try. It got rid of most of it but it still wasn't right. Sent in instructions on how to do a reinstall. He didn't want to do that. Eventually he spilled coffee on it and bought another one. He was actually looking to buy a replacement before he split the coffee on it, i think the coffee just sped up the process.

Just like on windows, he wasn't doing the updates or hadn't did them in a while. Ad to that, not much push for run av programs on Macs that i've seen.

I've had someone at work tell me their personal iPhone was infected. I asked to see it, but never got to see it. They took it by the carrier and i think all they did was wipe/reset it because he was complaining about not having his files on the phone anymore. He wasn't syncing/backing it up either.

So yes, there are security holes in iOS and Mac OS and they do release updates for them. They just don't come out as often and i've read they just don't even try to fix some of them. I must say i don't know if that was a good source where i read that. But if anyone has followed them now and then, you should have seen them drag their feet on a few instances on patching or helping people fix their machines that got infected. They eventually caved only due to the media attention it got. Ad all of that to the bullshit nonsense that Macs don't get viruses and just plain ignorance of most of their users, this is why this kind of question keeps coming up.

I'm not sure if Apple offers this in iOS or Mac OSx, but they should offer and default to a automatic update system like windows. I wonder how many Mac users will read that and think FU.
Click to expand...


Brilliant, corroborating accounts!!!!! Seriously, what I have finally learned in this thread is HUGE. First time in my life, I UNDERSTAND THE ACTUAL, OBJECTIVE REALITY! IN PERSPECTIVE. And so, my lifelong resentment of the inherent flaws in Windows .....has abated!

It's a MIRACLE.😱:thumbsup::thumbsup:😀
 
pete6032 said:
If you were a hacker would you write a virus/malicious code that could attack 90% of all computers (running Windows) or less than 3% of all computers (Mac OS)?
Click to expand...


I have heard this all my life. I never bought into it, but now, cause of this thread and all this amazing info people are offering....I am starting to.

Relatedly, and I even try, there is no way, no how I can relate to the hacker mindset. I think someone would have to have serious, unaddressed issues to try to hurt others in that way.:'(
 
glugglug said:
Relevant as ever: NSA Researcher says Macs are LESS secure than Windows

There are 3 reasons you don't see as much malware for Macs YET:
  • Low market share makes them less of a target
  • Limited utility and bad UI makes hackers not want to bother getting a mac
  • Higher cost of entry to get a Mac and corresponding development tools

Windows 8/8.1 and end-of-lifing Windows 7 will change the status of the first 2 items on that list. As the Apple market share climbs, they will become far more malware infested than Windows ME or XP ever was at its peak.

Also, when considering the market share numbers, another thing to consider is that a business is a much juicier target than an individual. Apple's market share is much smaller for businesses.
Click to expand...

For me, the last, re Apple's marketshare is much smaller for businesses, RESONATES OFF THE CHARTS, and, is the ONE. THANKS!!!!!!:thumbsup:
 
Nothing wring with the general hacker mindset. It's how some things get created and how things are made better.

Some people do it just to see if they can
Some people do it for money. (good or bad)
Some people are mistakenly called hackers by the masses that only use tools real hackers put together. These people are asshole script kiddies and i wish the media would learn the difference.
 
JoeBleed said:
Eventually he spilled coffee on it and bought another one. He was actually looking to buy a replacement before he split the coffee on it, i think the coffee just sped up the process.
Click to expand...

I think this statement explains why macs exist at all. There are many people who will actually buy a new computer rather than fix the current one. Even if all it needs is a few startup programs disabled, a basic disk cleanup, and maybe an upgrade to an SSD. But why do that when you can shell out $1000? $2000? chump change. They will even go as far as to work it into their subconscious, by spilling coffee or accidentally destroying it in some other way. Anything to spend more money!
 
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