Another General Calls For Rumsfeld's Resignation.

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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We now have four retired generals, all with distinguished combat service records, calling for Ronald Dumbsfeld's resignation. Linkage.
Another retired general amplifies calls for Rumsfeld's resignation

By Thomas E. Ricks

The Washington Post

WASHINGTON ? The retired commander of key forces in Iraq called Wednesday for Donald Rumsfeld to step down, joining several other former top military commanders who have harshly criticized the secretary of defense's authoritarian style for making the military's job more difficult.

"I think we need a fresh start" at the top of the Pentagon, said retired Army Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who commanded the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq in 2004-05. "We need leadership up there that respects the military as they expect the military to respect them. And that leadership needs to understand teamwork."

Batiste said many of his peers feel the same way. "It speaks volumes that guys like me are speaking out from retirement about the leadership climate in the Department of Defense," he said earlier Wednesday on CNN.

Batiste told CNN that he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq. "I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 [billion] to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to war costs.

Batiste's comments resonate especially within the Army because it widely is known there that he was offered and declined a promotion to three-star rank to return to Iraq and be the No. 2 U.S. military officer there, because he no longer wished to serve under Rumsfeld. Also, before going to Iraq, he worked at the highest level of the Pentagon, serving as the senior military assistant to Paul Wolfowitz, then the deputy secretary of defense.

Batiste said he believes the administration's handling of the Iraq war has violated fundamental military principles, such as unity of command and unity of effort. In other interviews, Batiste has said he thinks the violation of another military principle of ensuring there is an adequate number of forces helped create the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal by putting too much responsibility on incompetent officers and undertrained troops.

His comments follow similar recent high-profile attacks on Rumsfeld by three other retired flag officers, amid indications that many of their peers feel the same way.

"We won't get fooled again," retired Marine Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, director of operations on the staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 2000 to 2002, wrote in an essay in Time magazine this week. Listing a series of mistakes such as "McNamara-like micromanagement," a reference to the Vietnam War-era secretary of defense, Newbold called for "replacing Rumsfeld and many others unwilling to fundamentally change their approach."

[/b]Another top officer who served in Iraq, retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, last month wrote a New York Times opinion piece in which he called Rumsfeld "incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically."[/b] Eaton, who oversaw training of Iraqi army troops in 2003-04, said "Mr. Rumsfeld must step down."

Also, retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, a longtime critic of Rumsfeld and the administration's handling of the Iraq war, has been more vocal lately as he publicizes a new book. "The problem is that we've wasted three years" in Iraq, said Zinni, who was chief of U.S. Central Command, which oversees Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, in the late 1990s. He added that he "absolutely" believes that Rumsfeld should resign.

Gen. Peter Pace, the first Marine to serve as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, attempted Tuesday to tamp down the revolt of the retired generals. No officers were muzzled during the planning of the invasion of Iraq, he said. "We had then and have now every opportunity to speak our minds, and if we do not, shame on us," he said at a Pentagon briefing. "The articles that are out there about folks not speaking up are just flat wrong."

Lawrence Di Rita, a counselor to the Defense Department, disagreed with the retired generals' characterizations of Rumsfeld's style. "People are entitled to their opinions. What they are not entitled to is their own facts. ... The assertions about inadequate exposure to military judgment are just fundamentally incorrect."

Other retired generals said they think it is unlikely that the denunciations of Rumsfeld and his aides will cease.

"A lot of them are hugely frustrated," in part because Rumsfeld gave the impression that "military advice was neither required nor desired" in the planning for the Iraq war, said retired Lt. Gen. Wallace Gregson, who until last year commanded Marine forces in the Pacific theater. He said he is sensing much anger among Americans over the administration's handling of the war and thinks the continuing barrage of criticism from military professionals will fuel that anger as the November elections approach. He declined to discuss his personal views.

Another retired officer, former Army Maj. Gen. John Riggs, said he thinks his peer group is "a pretty close-mouthed bunch," but even so his sense is that "everyone pretty much thinks Rumsfeld and the bunch around him should be cleared out."

He emphatically agrees, he said, explaining that he thinks the defense secretary and his advisers have "made fools of themselves, and totally underestimated what would be needed for a sustained conflict."

Military experts expressed some concern about the new outspokenness of retired generals.

"I think it flatly is a bad thing," said Richard Kohn, a University of North Carolina military historian who writes frequently on civil-military relations. He said he worries that it could undermine civilian control of the military, especially by making civilian leaders feel they need to be careful about what they say around officers, for fear of being denounced by those officers as soon as they retire.

"How can you prosecute a war if the military and civilians don't trust each other?" Kohn asked.

Also, the generals themselves may be partly to blame for the fiasco in Iraq, along with Rumsfeld and the White House, said Michael Vickers, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a Washington think tank.

"It's just absurd to lay the blame on Don Rumsfeld alone," he said.

Some of Batiste's CNN comments were reported by Reuters.

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
I wish I could add a comment, but considering their qualifications to speak, their words say far more than anything I could post. :Q
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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he should have been fired a long time ago. But I think we're all resigned to the fact that its not going to happen, no matter how many generals call for it.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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I heard he has tried to resign (should be in disgrace) but bush won't let him...
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.

Retiring for someone in the military is an official discharge. He's past the age of draft if it were re-instated. He's no longer employed by the military, they can't call him back up. If he were to go back it would be if he chose to if asked.
 

TGS

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May 3, 2005
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They are no longer in the chain of command. Most of the military commentators are retired generals, or Lt.Col/Cols. There is a big difference between being active duty and criticizing your superiors, then when you are retired or seperated from the service.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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I used to think McNamara was the worst Sec. of Defense we ever had.
But ol' Rummy has not only passed him but he has set a record for incompetance that will be hard to beat. Ever.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.

Well, it's not like it's secret or anything. ;) :D
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: piasabird
I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this.
"They" (whoever "they" are) don't have anything to say about what a retired general says. A retired general is a civilian with the same Constitutional freedom of speech as any other civilian. They can't discuss classified information, but neither can a civilian with classified clearances. That doesn't bar them from speaking their minds about the problems they see.

Who's better qualified than a group of retired generals to give the rest of us the info WE need about such malfeasance by Ronald Dumbsfeld and the rest of the administration?
 

homercles337

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2004
6,340
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.

Youre surprised that they let retired military personell talk about politics? Wow, just wow.

[edit] stupid fingres! [/edit]
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.
Unfortunately we have that darn pesky Constitution with that inconvenient free speech nonsense.
Hopefully, the Supreme Court will say it doesn't apply to anyone who criticizes the Government.

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: dahunan
I heard he has tried to resign (should be in disgrace) but bush won't let him...
I believe Rummy or Bush said that so it's true.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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I recall an interview of Rumsfeld where he said he'd TWICE tried to resign but was rejected both times by the Propagandist.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.

I take it you don't care for his opinion? Perhaps he should be shot as a traitor?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: dahunan
I heard he has tried to resign (should be in disgrace) but bush won't let him...
If Bush let him resign, it would reflect badly on Bush.

Also, I do not think that Rummy would have the gonads to offer it voluntarily.

Therefore it is a snake eating it's tail situation.

Rummsfield has made a multiude of poor choices and refuses to take off his rose colored glasses.

 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: dahunan
I heard he has tried to resign (should be in disgrace) but bush won't let him...
If Bush let him resign, it would reflect badly on Bush.

Also, I do not think the Rummy would have the gonads to offer it voluntarily.

To his credit he said he has offered twice already

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: conjur
Make it *5*
... and counting. From the article at your link:
CNN is reporting that a fifth retired general is calling for Rumsfeld?s resignation.
  • ?I really believe that we need a new secretary of defense because Secretary Rumsfeld carries way too much baggage with him. ? Specifically, I feel he has micromanaged the generals who are leading our forces there,? said retired Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack, former commander of the 82nd Airborne Division.
Actually, this may be the sixth general. Generals Newbold, Eaton, Zinni, and Batiste have gained prominent attention in calling for Rumsfeld?s resignation. But another less-noticed general, Ret. Army Gen. John Riggs, told the Washington Post recently:
  • [Riggs] believes that his peer group is ?a pretty closemouthed bunch? but that, even so, his sense is ?everyone pretty much thinks Rumsfeld and the bunch around him should be cleared out.?
Given the inability of Bush to do what needs to be done, it?s time to revisit one of ?Rumsfeld?s Rules? pertaining to presidential staff:
  • Be able to resign. It will improve your value to the President and do wonders for your performance.
Too bad the rats don't know they're supposed to be the ones to leave the sinking ship and leave it to the captains to try to save it. :p
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Bush let him resign, it would reflect badly on Bush.

Also, I do not think that Rummy would have the gonads to offer it voluntarily.

Therefore it is a snake eating it's tail situation.

Rummsfield has made a multiude of poor choices and refuses to take off his rose colored glasses.

I think President Bush sees it that way, but I don't agree it's true.

One of the qualities I actually respect about President Bush is his loyalty. President Clinton, as an contrasting example, seemed completely willing to cut loose cabinet members when it suited him politically (remember Jocelyn Elders?), but President Bush is a friend to the end, to his appointees. That said, he seems to be loyal to a fault, even when it defies common sense and political expediency. At some point it seems to me more like stubbornness than loyalty.

Frankly I thought Secretary Rumsfeld became a huge political liability after Abu Ghraib, and should have been deep-sixed then (I have to assume that was one of the times he offered his resignation), but President Bush seems to feel that llowing that would make him look weak (which I guess is what you're saying).

It seems to me that at some point as a leader you have to maintain accountability, and even if Rumsfeld had nothing at all to do with the events at Abu Ghraib, he was derelict in his responsibilities by failing to keep the President informed. It seems painfully clear to me he never had a plan for winning the peace in Iraq, and the consensus among the generals seems to be that he's making their job harder, not easier. I thought he should have been gone years ago, and I feel the same way now.

As for the topic at hand, why do these bleeding-heart generals hate America? :p
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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Hey, last I looked slavery was abolished in America.
If Rummy wants to quit Bush can't order him to stay on.
The whole "Rummy tried to resign" is just typical propaganda.
 

surreal1221

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2005
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Even a retired general can be called back up for military service.

I am surprised they let retired military generals speak out like this. I wonder if there would be a legal option to cut off retirement for military people who talk out against their military leaders. It is like complaining about receiving a military retirement.

So now you want the Bush administration to command these retired Generals to shut up? Just like the rest of the military members? Just like the rest of America's citizens.