another crack in the veneer, science triumphs over closed minds

[preCRT]

finally some common sense :beer:



GU to Continue Controversial Research
Use of Aborted Fetal Cells Prompts Probe at Catholic Institution

By Amy Argetsinger and Avram Goldstein
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 30, 2004; Page B01

The letter last fall from an antiabortion group posed an unexpected quandary for Georgetown University Medical Center.

A Florida-based group wrote to Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington that some scientists at Georgetown, a Catholic university, were doing research using cells derived from aborted fetuses.

An in-house investigation verified the claim. But when 14 of the researchers involved said that ending the use of the cells in question would jeopardize years of work and funding, the matter was turned over to ethicists. In a recommendation that scholars said could mark a first in Catholic medical research in the United States, Georgetown has decided to let those researchers continue their work.

story

 

[McCarthy]

The Rev. Kevin T. FitzGerald, a university bioethicist, said he reasoned that the scientists did not know the cells had come from aborted fetuses when they began their work and should not be forced to abandon potentially lifesaving studies or risk forfeiting grants. The benefits to society, he said, far outweigh the harm done by using the cells, because the abortions were not performed for the purpose of providing the cells to scientists.

Where'd they think the cells came from? Yes, you can get them from miscarriages, but to claim they didn't know sounds like a cop out. Researchers using cells from miscarriages have usually gone to the extra effort to make sure that's where their cells came from, if they didn't make that effort then they damn well knew at least some were all but certain to be from abortions.

Agree or disagree about the research, but CYA speak doesn't impress me, especially out of a church that is getting nailed for covering things up in other matters.

 

[labrat25]

this is good for science, but trying to pick a fight with religous people ain't cool

i'm a scientist (and don't believe in God) but that doesn't mean i insult them, discussion is cool, but trying to start fights ain't

let people believe what they want, discussion is good, but insults aren't

 

[Zephyr106]

That's all well and good, but when I think of the "religion versus science" conflict, most of the time the fight pickers seem to be religious fundamentalists. Fighting to keep scientific theories out of textbooks when those theories "conflict" with a particular religion, and those theories have as much scientific evidence as other theories that don't happen to conflict and hence are not cared about. I will definately not say that scientists are inherently more open-minded that religious fundamentalists, but I have not heard of scientists trying to censor religious writings when those writings fly in the face of science.

Zephyr

 

[Mean MrMustard]

I don't see a problem with using aborted fetuses for this research. As long as the the fetuses weren't aborted FOR the purpose of being used in research, then what's the harm in using to better human knowledge.

Did the Rev. cop out? Probably. But that still doesn't change the fact of the matter stated above.

This antiabortion group has no basis in this argument.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

What this really boils down to is Abortion clinics talking women into going thru with their abortions so that they can sell the murdered babies for scientific experiments.

 

[IGBT]

We're all one big village now ya know....if it doesn't happen here..some other village will do it...

 

[maluckey]

The Roman Catholic Church has had a mixed history to be fair, but it has also allowed certain scientists leeway in the pursuit of higher learning. It's nothing new. Da Vinci was allowed to use corpses in his research, which was banned for everyone else. The current Pope supports scientists and astronomers that postulate theories that would have been considered heretical a short time ago. The current Pope has allowed Stephen Hawkings to speak to Catholic scientists about his theories, and himself supports the work of Hawkings.

The Roman Catholic church would not have issues with using fetal stem-cells from miscarried fetuses. Where it draws the line is aborted fetuses. Studies show that the overwhelming majority of aborted fetuses are for convenience, and not to save lives, so the church understandably sees this as wrong, and wants no part of it.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: maluckey
The Roman Catholic Church has had a mixed history to be fair, but it has also allowed certain scientists leeway in the pursuit of higher learning. It's nothing new. Da Vinci was allowed to use corpses in his research, which was banned for everyone else. The current Pope supports scientists and astronomers that postulate theories that would have been considered heretical a short time ago. The current Pope has allowed Stephen Hawkings to speak to Catholic scientists about his theories, and himself supports the work of Hawkings.

The Roman Catholic church would not have issues with using fetal stem-cells from miscarried fetuses. Where it draws the line is aborted fetuses. Studies show that the overwhelming majority of aborted fetuses are for convenience, and not to save lives, so the church understandably sees this as wrong, and wants no part of it.

Hmm, maybe the women could get a few bucks off the price of the abortion for the fetus. You know, get it credited back to thier visa (it says in the yellow pages most of the clinics take visa mastercard and offer 90 day same as cash financing)


I wonder if it would be based on wieght...

 

[BugsBunny1078]

As I said the clinics operate a double ended business. On one end they charge for abortions and on the other end they sell murdered babies to scientists. I don;t worry about it too much though because they're all going to have to answer to God.