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Another business leader slams Obama

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tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
100s of thousands of jobs directly created by patriot Romney and capitalist Bain.

Be gone with thee filthy liberal.
Don't worry Spidey..there will be plenty of jobs after Obama is relected...

1. Quell Rebellion of you and your like
2. fix damage from rebellion
3. Burying the dead rebels
4. Manage detainment camps for rebels that lived
5. Re-education camps for the rest...
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,426
8,404
136
There is always a market for the right kind of product. Even with the slow economy, people are still lining up to buy the latest iGadget and spend additional money for the iGizmo apps and accessories. The consumers are not doing the business any favor, they are simply following their wants and needs.
So do businesses need consumers to survive or not? You just stated that there will always be buyers but if they aren't essential then why does it matter if they exist? Why do sellers cater to their needs. Surely if you don't need consumers you wouldn't bother creating a product for them.

Hell! Why aren't businesses making black & white tube tvs or peg legs? Both have got to be cheap to make and as you said there will always be buyers.
 
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Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
So do businesses need consumers to survive or not? You just stated that there will always be buyers but if they aren't essential then why does it matter if they exist? Why do sellers cater to their needs. Surely if you don't need consumers you wouldn't bother creating a product for them.

Hell! Why aren't businesses making black & white tube tvs or peg legs? Both have got to be cheap to make and as you said there will always be buyers.
The businesses need to know what the consumer wants, and the consumer will show up to gladly fork over their own or someone else's money. The consumers exist all around you, there's no need to debate whether they exist or if they are important. It simply comes down to an idea of how to separate consumers from their money.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
15,149
2,545
126
Yes, yes he does. If you've ever been in business the fundamentals are always the same. His examples of give and take to reach a win/win seem to fall of deaf communist motherfucker ears.

Do you understand what construction is and how many jobs it creates? Sure he's specialized in his locale but the principles remain the same.

This is a prime example of "yes, I built that". As in, he built it.

Fuck you communists, fuck you all. America will WIN despite you and obama.
Spidey's off his meds again.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
All this job creator stuff is complete bullshit.

The real job creators are the middle class. Without people buying your crap no hiring is done. Demand is the real job creation catalyst. Without the middle class you don't have demand.
Ding, ding, ding.....WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,426
8,404
136
The businesses need to know what the consumer wants, and the consumer will show up to gladly fork over their own or someone else's money. The consumers exist all around you, there's no need to debate whether they exist or if they are important. It simply comes down to an idea of how to separate consumers from their money.
So what you are saying is that if the consumer has money that they can separate with then they will buy crap?

Sounds like the exact reasons why a strong consumer class is needed and why tax cuts for businesses don't grow the economy.

Thanks for making my argument for me;)


Checkmate;)
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,185
107
106
How exactly does a president "create" jobs? Businesses create jobs.
They dont directly create them dum-dum. They impose outrageous and hurtful regulations (in the case of obama) then look at how many jobs were created that month and take credit for it because they allowed them to be created.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
So what you are saying is that if the consumer has money that they can separate with then they will buy crap?
It's not a question of IF. The consumer has money, no question about it. If they're not spending it on your crap, then you're trying to sell them the wrong kind of crap and it's time to reconsider your business strategy.

Sounds like the exact reasons why a strong consumer class is needed and why tax cuts for businesses don't grow the economy.

Thanks for making my argument for me;)


Checkmate;)
There is no such thing as "consumer class" - every single person alive is a consumer in one way or another. If the housing market is weak, then the logical thing to do is admit that more houses is not what the consumer wants, and look at what they may want instead. The misguided thing to do is look at the slow housing market and say "we need to find a way to get the consumers to buy houses they don't really want in order to stimulate the economy" thereby creating an artificial demand, which is how we got into this mess to begin with.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,426
8,404
136
It's not a question of IF. The consumer has money, no question about it. If they're not spending it on your crap, then you're trying to sell them the wrong kind of crap and it's time to reconsider your business strategy.


There is no such thing as "consumer class" - every single person alive is a consumer in one way or another. If the housing market is weak, then the logical thing to do is admit that more houses is not what the consumer wants, and look at what they may want instead. The misguided thing to do is look at the slow housing market and say "we need to find a way to get the consumers to buy houses they don't really want in order to stimulate the economy" thereby creating an artificial demand, which is how we got into this mess to begin with.

So a slow housing market means buyers don't like the houses being built? Are you for real with this shit?

So in the mid 2000's buyers liked the houses being made, does that mean the bubble burst because the right type of houses weren't being made?
Shit I thought housing went up because lending requirements were weakened (meaning people could get money easier)?

Your economic theory just makes way more sense! Some one should have told ford that, he could have made more money selling expensive cars that people like versus selling cheaper cars that people can afford./s

Would you like to try again and further embarrass yourself?
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
So a slow housing market means buyers don't like the houses being built? Are you for real with this shit?

So in the mid 2000's buyers liked the houses being made, does that mean the bubble burst because the right type of houses weren't being made?
Shit I thought housing went up because lending requirements were weakened (meaning people could get money easier)?

Your economic theory just makes way more sense! Some one should have told ford that, he could have made more money selling expensive cars that people like versus selling cheaper cars that people can afford./s

Would you like to try again and further embarrass yourself?
Would you like me to explain how the price of a product affects demand?

The buyers don't want the houses being offered at the price they're being offered. You can either lower the price to increase demand, or you can try to sustain the bubble by various manipulative tricks. When Ford built cars, he didn't go to the government and demand that the government pump more money to the consumers so that he can sell his cars. You just owned yourself with your own theory.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,860
0
71
Would you like me to explain how the price of a product affects demand?

The buyers don't want the houses being offered at the price they're being offered. You can either lower the price to increase demand, or you can try to sustain the bubble by various manipulative tricks. When Ford built cars, he didn't go to the government and demand that the government pump more money to the consumers so that he can sell his cars. You just owned yourself with your own theory.
Price effects demand of course. If Ferraris were $40K cars then everyone would be buying them. But you're still largely ignoring the fact that demand is what drives a business no matter how you word it. While a business can search for the perfect product or service to try and part a consumer from their money, it is still the consumer driving that business to search for the proper product to supply to get that money. It is the desire for the business to fill a consumer demand, whether realized or unrealized, and make money in the process that is the catalyst.

Therefore, it makes sense to give the consumers more of their money so they have more of it to spend. As consumers have more money, they'll loosen their belts when it comes to spending. Businesses will have an easier time making money as demand for their products pick up.
 
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SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
They dont directly create them dum-dum. They impose outrageous and hurtful regulations (in the case of obama) then look at how many jobs were created that month and take credit for it because they allowed them to be created.
Oh look at that, I'm dumb because I brought up a valid point.

And you guys accuse the other side of slinging poop.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
Price effects demand of course. If Ferraris were $40K cars then everyone would be buying them. But you're still largely ignoring the fact that demand is what drives a business no matter how you word it. While a business can search for the perfect product or service to try and part a consumer from their money, it is still the consumer driving that business to search for the proper product to supply to get that money. It is the desire for the business to fill demand (and make money doing it) that is the catalyst.

Therefore, it makes sense to give the consumers more of their money so they have more of it to spend. As consumers have more money, they'll loosen their belts when it comes to spending. Businesses will have an easier time making money as demand for their products pick up.
The question is how are you going to give the consumer more money. If you're gonna cut taxes across the board, then it's all good and well, but that means the government will have to cut spending, something that nobody in Washington seems willing to do.

On the other hand, you can increase taxes on the rich and give money to the poor and middle class, in which case you're just shuffling money around with no net gain, and pissing people off. That is what the politicians like to do, and that is what I absolutely oppose.

The real drivers of the economy are the businesses, because they actually create products and services that the consumer wants. All the consumer does is exchange money for those goods and services.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,234
18,829
136
The real drivers of the economy are the businesses, because they actually create products and services that the consumer wants. All the consumer does is exchange money for those goods and services.
So they're not job creators, anymore? Just a bunch of hucksters selling plastic baubles to the sheeple. Got it.

;)
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
76
The question is how are you going to give the consumer more money. If you're gonna cut taxes across the board, then it's all good and well, but that means the government will have to cut spending, something that nobody in Washington seems willing to do.

On the other hand, you can increase taxes on the rich and give money to the poor and middle class, in which case you're just shuffling money around with no net gain, and pissing people off. That is what the politicians like to do, and that is what I absolutely oppose.

The real drivers of the economy are the businesses, because they actually create products and services that the consumer wants. All the consumer does is exchange money for those goods and services.
bolded part isn't necessarily true. If the goal is increasing consumption then increasing the income of people who will more than likely use that income to buy things as opposed to putting the increased income in a Swiss bank account, will be more effective.

Its also not clear that reducing government spending in order to cut taxes will increase consumption overall.

The real driving force of the "Cut taxes" crowd isn't economic growth, its just greed.

Greed has limitations as a governing philosophy.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
So what is going to replace all of the Coal fired power plants? Does O-Bamma think electricity will magically flow into the grid?
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
bolded part isn't necessarily true. If the goal is increasing consumption then increasing the income of people who will more than likely use that income to buy things as opposed to putting the increased income in a Swiss bank account, will be more effective.

Its also not clear that reducing government spending in order to cut taxes will increase consumption overall.

The real driving force of the "Cut taxes" crowd isn't economic growth, its just greed.

Greed has limitations as a governing philosophy.
The goal is not to increase consumption for its own sake. The goal is to boost economic output, which involves both production and consumption. You know, things like people having jobs and earning income while producing economic output, instead of just robbing the rich at gunpoint.

You're assuming that rich people just hoard money. No, rich people buy expensive things, like private jets and yachts made by companies employing hundreds if not thousands of workers. And even if they don't do it now, they will either do it later or their kids will do it later.

In any case, refusing to give your earned money to lefty freeloaders is not "greed", it's called cause and effect. You grow up being a lazy slacker, you experience lazy slacker consequences.
 

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