Another autonomous vehicle crash in AZ

[Puffnstuff]

This involved a Waymo van and a Honda that swerved to avoid a collision entering the lane that the van was in striking it. I find the CPD's statement on the wreck interesting and if you read it the wording implies that the van was at fault even though it was in its legal lane when the Honda swerved out of their lane and struck it.

The police say they're going to review the cameras to see who ran the light and Waymo has no comment as of now. No matter who's at fault each time an autonomous vehicle is involved in an accident it sows the seeds of doubt amongst people.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/waymo-self-driving-suv-involved-crash-chandler-arizona-2018-05-04/

 

[sandorski]

One day all auto accidents will involve AVs.

 

[JSt0rm]

Somebody ran into an ai vehicle. Lol.

 

[shortylickens]

I bet there will be fewer accidents with computer controlled cars than human controlled cars. Eventually it will be mandatory.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'm not sure why anyone would expect AV to never be involved in an accident. Seems rather unreasonable.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm not sure why anyone would expect AV to never be involved in an accident. Seems rather unreasonable.

Its not that, rather its the defensive driving capabilities that are being called into question here.

 

[TheVrolok]

Its not that, rather its the defensive driving capabilities that are being called into question here.

I guess I would wonder by what standard that is being judged? Can we say with any level of precision what would or would not have happened had a human been piloting the vehicle? Maybe it would have been worse?

 

[Jaskalas]

Waymo releases dash cam video of autonomous vehicle involved in crash

Human driver crossed the center divider right in front of the AV. It appears the victim would have had less than 2 seconds til impact to respond and somehow maneuver outside the path of collision. Good luck with that.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I guess I would wonder by what standard that is being judged? Can we say with any level of precision what would or would not have happened had a human been piloting the vehicle? Maybe it would have been worse?

Waymo releases dash cam video of autonomous vehicle involved in crash

Human driver crossed the center divider right in front of the AV. It appears the victim would have had less than 2 seconds til impact to respond and somehow maneuver outside the path of collision. Good luck with that.

The investigators have to make that determination and the camera footage is the key to this situation. I don't think that anybody could've avoided the collision and we didn't have that footage when the story broke. Personally I'm not opposed to autonomy as I've seen people doing all kinds of distracting things while driving.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I bet there will be fewer accidents with computer controlled cars than human controlled cars. Eventually it will be mandatory.

Until hacked that is.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Waymo releases dash cam video of autonomous vehicle involved in crash

Human driver crossed the center divider right in front of the AV. It appears the victim would have had less than 2 seconds til impact to respond and somehow maneuver outside the path of collision. Good luck with that.

That was going to happen no matter who or what was in charge of the Waymo. In simple scenarios automation can have advantages.

 

[SKORPI0]

Its not that, rather its the defensive driving capabilities that are being called into question here.

Correct. Car drives fine until something unexpected happens. That would be the real test on how fast it can detect and avoid these accidents from ever occuring.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Correct. Car drives fine until something unexpected happens. That would be the real test on how fast it can detect and avoid these accidents from ever occuring.

Technotheists as I shall call them hate this next question.

What will the system do and not do to avoid an accident? Its a simple question, no? No.

 

[Zorba]

Waymo releases dash cam video of autonomous vehicle involved in crash

Human driver crossed the center divider right in front of the AV. It appears the victim would have had less than 2 seconds til impact to respond and somehow maneuver outside the path of collision. Good luck with that.

Yeah, I don't see how that could at all be considered the Waymo's car's fault. Even the best defensive driving would've had a very hard time not getting hit right there.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

No matter who's at fault each time an autonomous vehicle is involved in an accident it sows the seeds of doubt amongst people.

No, it really doesn't. It's fodder for monumentally stupid people or anyone with an anti-AV agenda (not naming any names here). For those of us in the real world the real seeds of doubt are planted by the real pertinent facts of motor vehicle accidents where more than 6 million crashes annually result in 30,000 fatalities annually almost all of which are caused by human errors. We're left wondering why AVs have not gotten here sooner to remove the braindead chimps behind the wheel from the equation.

And hey, what a shock!! Video confirms that the crash was caused by the braindead chimp, not the computer.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I hope nobody is injured. 404 vehicle malfunction not found

 

[pmv]

As an anti-robocar-ist, I have to say I don't find much grist for my mill in this particular case. I shall wait for the next incident to come along. I'm sure I won't be waiting long.

 

[The Merg]

Waymo releases dash cam video of autonomous vehicle involved in crash

Human driver crossed the center divider right in front of the AV. It appears the victim would have had less than 2 seconds til impact to respond and somehow maneuver outside the path of collision. Good luck with that.

Reaction time for a person is about 1.5 to 2.5 seconds... Almost a certainty that the crash would have been unavoidable...

- Merg

 

[JSt0rm]

bet the other driver sues. lol. murica.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

As an anti-robocar-ist, I have to say I don't find much grist for my mill in this particular case. I shall wait for the next incident to come along. I'm sure I won't be waiting long.

And you'll conveniently forget and/or ignore the tens or hundreds of thousands of crashes leading to hundreds or thousands of fatalities caused by chimps on cell phones until it does. There's really no reason to be proud of being willfully stupid.

 

[Jaskalas]

Police: Sedan that collided with Waymo vehicle ran red light

Chandler Police Department spokesman Seth Tyler said that the Waymo-owned Chrysler minivan was in manual mode and slowing for the red light when the collision occurred Friday.​

Couple more details to wrap this up. Wasn't just an accident but a criminal act leading to this. And I'm pretty sure manual mode means human driver in the Waymo vehicle. All human here folks.

 

[Zorba]

And you'll conveniently forget and/or ignore the tens or hundreds of thousands of crashes leading to hundreds or thousands of fatalities caused by chimps on cell phones until it does. There's really no reason to be proud of being willfully stupid.

Right now autonomous vehicles have a much higher death rate per mile than human driving cars, FYI. But, you are comparing an absolutely massive sample size to an extremely small sample size and making broad claims. Never mind humans drive in every condition possible and AVs still only drive under a subset of conditions.

AV will be the future, however, people need to ensure there are actual regulations and safety guidelines in place. They will not just automatically safer, just because people think they should be. Aviation is safe today because it didn't used to be, and people demanded regulation, safety guidelines, and real certification processes.

Cyber security is a good illustration of how bad it could be if there is not a robust certification process and anyone can release AV software/systems.

 

[Zorba]

Police: Sedan that collided with Waymo vehicle ran red light

Chandler Police Department spokesman Seth Tyler said that the Waymo-owned Chrysler minivan was in manual mode and slowing for the red light when the collision occurred Friday.​

Couple more details to wrap this up. Wasn't just an accident but a criminal act leading to this. And I'm pretty sure manual mode means human driver in the Waymo vehicle. All human here folks.

I would be interested to know if while in manual mode the computers still ran in like a "simulation" mode so they could compare what the human did vs. what the computer would've done. Or if at least if all of the sensors are still collecting data so it could be ran on a simulation later.

In this case I have no idea what even a perfect computer could've done. It didn't look like there would've been enough room to stop even if done immediately and I doubt it could've (or would've) accelerated out of harms way.

This could be a thought experiment too, assume the van could've braked so the car missed it, but there was a motorcycle (or kid on the sidewalk) in the lane next to it. If the van avoids the accident, the motorcycle will get creamed. Should the computer decide that the overall harm would be less if it sacrificed itself, or should it let the car hit the motorcycle (or kid on the sidewalk). I think we can all agree that the human would save themselves from pure instinct, but a computer could theoretically make a more calculated decision.

 

[pmv]

And you'll conveniently forget and/or ignore the tens or hundreds of thousands of crashes leading to hundreds or thousands of fatalities caused by chimps on cell phones until it does. There's really no reason to be proud of being willfully stupid.

Forget? Nah. I have to work hard at not constantly going on about them (this isn't the right forum for that - Americans are irremediably car-centric, so it would be futile). I just don't, however, think self-driving cars are the answer. The answer is banning cars entirely from as many areas as possible and putting more restrictions on their use while doing a lot more to encourage and facilitate other forms of travel. Certainly within cities. The emphasis on robocars I just can't help but see as a diversion to avoid facing up to the need to reduce car use. Keep focusing on the fantasy that probably won't happen and likely won't be much of an improvement if it does, so as to not do much about the real problem here-and-now.

(2/3rds of car journeys in London are less than 3 miles - perfectly walkable, never mind cycling or public transport. And the only reason cycling is 'dangerous' and buses are slow, or why parents are scared to let their children walk to school, is because of everyone else clogging up the roads with unnecessary car journeys. It's a partially circular problem.

If you don't like talk of 'restrictions' or 'bans', I'd be happy for motorists to just pay the true cost of their journeys - I suspect that would lead to many choosing other forms of travel).


Edit - on reflection, I'd consider it possible that self-driving cars might make more sense in some places than others. E.g. in low-population-density USA rather than crowded urbanised Europe. But in the latter I fear they will do more harm than good.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And you'll conveniently forget and/or ignore the tens or hundreds of thousands of crashes leading to hundreds or thousands of fatalities caused by chimps on cell phones until it does. There's really no reason to be proud of being willfully stupid.

Thou shalt not blaspheme the Lord, thy Autonomous Vehicle!

Perhaps someday they will be fit for general applications but it's not readily for prime time yet.