Another attack in Paris, one police officer is dead, two are wounded

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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,104
10,422
136
Hunt for the others?
I'm missing indicators that there was more than one gunman.
 
Svnla

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Jaskalas said:
Hunt for the others?
I'm missing indicators that there was more than one gunman.
Click to expand...

Investigators searched a home early Friday in an eastern suburb of Paris believed linked to the attack. A police document obtained by The Associated Press identifies the address searched in the town of Chelles as the family home of Karim Cheurfi, a 39-year-old with a criminal record.

Police tape surrounded the quiet, middle-class neighborhood in Chelles, and worried neighbors expressed surprise at the searches. Archive reports by French newspaper Le Parisien say that Cheurfi was convicted of attacking a police officer in 2001.

Authorities are trying to determine whether "one or more people" might have helped the attacker, Interior Ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet told reporters at the scene of the shooting.
Click to expand...

I will edit to make it clearer (helper(s) and not shooter(s)).
 
A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
Sad to see. Seems to becoming the norm. Hopefully the wounded are ok. Paris seems to be a target lately.

Mass shooting in Fresno earlier this week too, ISIS also claimed it. As it was a guy yelling "Allahu Akbar" during attacks.
 
A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
Genx87 said:
On the CBS evening news saw the little pizzeria we had lunch at 2 weeks ago.
Click to expand...

I recognized a few places I was around too. Beautiful city, and rich in history. Sad to see this.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/europe/champs-elyses-in-paris-closed/index.html

The man was a French national who shot two officers in 2001 after being stopped by a police car, the source said. He was taken into custody but while being questioned grabbed another officer's gun and shot him three times, the source said. He was convicted in that attack and had a criminal record because of involvement in violent robberies, the source said.
Click to expand...

So this guy was known, as he tried to kill cops before.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,104
10,422
136
We call these attacks terrorism, elevating them over normal crime.

But what, exactly, represents an elevated response on our end? We simply pour more resources into finding accomplices and/or associates of the terrorist(s)? Is that extra investigative due diligence the extent of how we distinguish terrorism? When we give such acts of violence notoriety, and attention, it begs an expectation of greater action for response and prevention on our part.

"War on terror"... what war? I don't think bombing Pakistani weddings and others in the Middle East represents prevention. Sure, eliminating ISIS and their territory will help stem their organization and financing, but the ideology and identity of Islamic Terrorism will show up in vulnerable Muslim populations across the globe. Clearly western civilization's open and inclusive nature prevents separation and isolation from these violent offenders. We are incapable of keeping "them" out. Fact is they are here, and will remain, among us.

So a response it seems, besides investigative reaction, would be to address the Muslim community in ways that help assimilate and strengthen it against outside influence. That they do not associate or identify with Middle East groups bent on killing people. That way we isolate the spread of the "infectious disease" (the ideology) without violating who we are as a society. We can work on prevention without repeating the darker mistakes of human history.

But make no mistake... should America and Europe fail to act fully and adequately in dealing with this issue... such attacks will remain common and risk escalation. How many killed or maimed loved ones will our people suffer until we demand easy answers and bloodshed of our own? And I'm not talking on the other side of the globe, but on our streets. We must act for our people to help them find better, and more difficult, answers before hatred spreads too far.
 
A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Jaskalas said:
We call these attacks terrorism, elevating them over normal crime.

But what, exactly, represents an elevated response on our end? We simply pour more resources into finding accomplices and/or associates of the terrorist(s)? Is that extra investigative due diligence the extent of how we distinguish terrorism? When we give such acts of violence notoriety, and attention, it begs an expectation of greater action for response and prevention on our part.

"War on terror"... what war? I don't think bombing Pakistani weddings and others in the Middle East represents prevention. Sure, eliminating ISIS and their territory will help stem their organization and financing, but the ideology and identity of Islamic Terrorism will show up in vulnerable Muslim populations across the globe. Clearly western civilization's open and inclusive nature prevents separation and isolation from these violent offenders. We are incapable of keeping "them" out. Fact is they are here, and will remain, among us.

So a response it seems, besides investigative reaction, would be to address the Muslim community in ways that help assimilate and strengthen it against outside influence. That they do not associate or identify with Middle East groups bent on killing people. That way we isolate the spread of the "infectious disease" (the ideology) without violating who we are as a society. We can work on prevention without repeating the darker mistakes of human history.

But make no mistake... should America and Europe fail to act fully and adequately in dealing with this issue... such attacks will remain common and risk escalation. How many killed or maimed loved ones will our people suffer until we demand easy answers and bloodshed of our own? And I'm not talking on the other side of the globe, but on our streets. We must act for our people to help them find better, and more difficult, answers before hatred spreads too far.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind it's your peers behind Trump (or in this case Le Pen) to put them browns in their place. You know, the same people looking to get their sizeable gubmint subsidies through resentment of politically expendable races.
 
HTFOff

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
56
91
High level sources say this may have been orchestrated by Trumpf himself with funding from Breitbart.com.

They're not all terrorists guys.

#NotMyTerrorist
 
M

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
Jaskalas said:
So a response it seems, besides investigative reaction, would be to address the Muslim community in ways that help assimilate and strengthen it against outside influence. That they do not associate or identify with Middle East groups bent on killing people. That way we isolate the spread of the "infectious disease" (the ideology) without violating who we are as a society. We can work on prevention without repeating the darker mistakes of human history.
Click to expand...

What are these "ways" though? How do you address a religious community that wants to insulate culturally? How do you address a religion that tends to radicalize a certain percentage of its believers due to what it teaches?
 
D

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,467
16,800
146
Majes said:
What are these "ways" though? How do you address a religious community that wants to insulate culturally? How do you address a religion that tends to radicalize a certain percentage of its believers due to what it teaches?
Click to expand...

You cordon them, and let them play among themselves. Bring the individuals to task if there's legal problems with said individuals, and make it very, very clear that the community itself is fine, and not being persecuted otherwise you end up with an uprising.

Now, this is complicated if the 'legal problems' constitutes individuals blowing themselves up, since there's nobody to bring to task at that point. You can try to target the leaders of whatever niche group is generating those individuals though, which is what we (the US) try to do now. Admittedly we've kinda gone off the rails though.
 
DrunkenSano

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
There will never be a solution because religion and extreme differences in culture is involved. Unless you remove the religion and culture, which is akin to genocide and something that no one should ever support, there will always be these types of conflicts. They hate the western culture, it's been drilled into them since they were children, you can't fix that. It's something that's been going on for over a thousand years.
 
Orignal Earl

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Jaskalas said:
We call these attacks terrorism, elevating them over normal crime.

But what, exactly, represents an elevated response on our end? We simply pour more resources into finding accomplices and/or associates of the terrorist(s)? Is that extra investigative due diligence the extent of how we distinguish terrorism? When we give such acts of violence notoriety, and attention, it begs an expectation of greater action for response and prevention on our part.

"War on terror"... what war? I don't think bombing Pakistani weddings and others in the Middle East represents prevention. Sure, eliminating ISIS and their territory will help stem their organization and financing, but the ideology and identity of Islamic Terrorism will show up in vulnerable Muslim populations across the globe. Clearly western civilization's open and inclusive nature prevents separation and isolation from these violent offenders. We are incapable of keeping "them" out. Fact is they are here, and will remain, among us.

So a response it seems, besides investigative reaction, would be to address the Muslim community in ways that help assimilate and strengthen it against outside influence. That they do not associate or identify with Middle East groups bent on killing people. That way we isolate the spread of the "infectious disease" (the ideology) without violating who we are as a society. We can work on prevention without repeating the darker mistakes of human history.

But make no mistake... should America and Europe fail to act fully and adequately in dealing with this issue... such attacks will remain common and risk escalation. How many killed or maimed loved ones will our people suffer until we demand easy answers and bloodshed of our own? And I'm not talking on the other side of the globe, but on our streets. We must act for our people to help them find better, and more difficult, answers before hatred spreads too far.
Click to expand...

It was the West and Saudi that spread the Islamist ideology in the first place
The US printed up millions of textbooks to teach children this ideology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#Western_patronage
 
D

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Majes said:
What are these "ways" though? How do you address a religious community that wants to insulate culturally? How do you address a religion that tends to radicalize a certain percentage of its believers due to what it teaches?
Click to expand...

What likely will happen is simply surrender. Try to ignore the problem as much as they can, then try to equivocate it away with Tim McVeigh times twenty. Just live with the terrorism.
 
D

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Jaskalas said:
We call these attacks terrorism, elevating them over normal crime.

But what, exactly, represents an elevated response on our end? We simply pour more resources into finding accomplices and/or associates of the terrorist(s)? Is that extra investigative due diligence the extent of how we distinguish terrorism? When we give such acts of violence notoriety, and attention, it begs an expectation of greater action for response and prevention on our part.

"War on terror"... what war? I don't think bombing Pakistani weddings and others in the Middle East represents prevention. Sure, eliminating ISIS and their territory will help stem their organization and financing, but the ideology and identity of Islamic Terrorism will show up in vulnerable Muslim populations across the globe. Clearly western civilization's open and inclusive nature prevents separation and isolation from these violent offenders. We are incapable of keeping "them" out. Fact is they are here, and will remain, among us.

So a response it seems, besides investigative reaction, would be to address the Muslim community in ways that help assimilate and strengthen it against outside influence. That they do not associate or identify with Middle East groups bent on killing people. That way we isolate the spread of the "infectious disease" (the ideology) without violating who we are as a society. We can work on prevention without repeating the darker mistakes of human history.

But make no mistake... should America and Europe fail to act fully and adequately in dealing with this issue... such attacks will remain common and risk escalation. How many killed or maimed loved ones will our people suffer until we demand easy answers and bloodshed of our own? And I'm not talking on the other side of the globe, but on our streets. We must act for our people to help them find better, and more difficult, answers before hatred spreads too far.
Click to expand...

We aren't bombing the weddings for instance to bomb the wedding. The Islamic terrorists do. We bomb the wedding to get one specific guy and the rest are collateral "enemy combatants." Not that I approve of drone bombings. If I were in charge I probably wouldn't do these drone bombings but at the same time I would take other measures.

Actually it also needs to be said that much of the time we are acting at the behest of local rulers on the ground.

Long term the solution is atheism. Muslim atheism and skepticism must be promoted.
 
M

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
[DHT]Osiris said:
You cordon them, and let them play among themselves. Bring the individuals to task if there's legal problems with said individuals, and make it very, very clear that the community itself is fine, and not being persecuted otherwise you end up with an uprising.

Now, this is complicated if the 'legal problems' constitutes individuals blowing themselves up, since there's nobody to bring to task at that point. You can try to target the leaders of whatever niche group is generating those individuals though, which is what we (the US) try to do now. Admittedly we've kinda gone off the rails though.
Click to expand...

But the community doesn't want to play among themselves. They want to expand and convert, and as they grow there is a percentage of that growth that will be radicalized...
 
Orignal Earl

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Majes said:
But the community doesn't want to play among themselves. They want to expand and convert, and as they grow there is a percentage of that growth that will be radicalized...
Click to expand...

Russia just recently banned an American Christian extremist group from spreading there
I have an acquaintance who follows this ideology after it spread into Canada from America
Him and his wife recently chose to ex communicate their children because they chose not to join
 
Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Orignal Earl said:
Russia just recently banned an American Christian extremist group from spreading there
I have an acquaintance who follows this ideology after it spread into Canada from America
Him and his wife recently chose to ex communicate their children because they chose not to join
Click to expand...
Did that radical group try to inflict death and harm to non-members?
 
A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Orignal Earl said:
It was the West and Saudi that spread the Islamist ideology in the first place
The US printed up millions of textbooks to teach children this ideology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#Western_patronage
Click to expand...

Missing from that section is the oil-for-mosques quid pro quo the west supported, much of which went into the saudi wahhabist muslim world league. Now, wahhabism certainly isn't "terrorism" per se, but much like arming the taliban it had rather counterproductive consequences.
 
A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Ichinisan said:
Did that radical group try to inflict death and harm to non-members?
Click to expand...

Radicalism is by definition more open to retaliation as recourse. Sort of like McVeigh or those right wing cattle-wrangling heros & fans, etc. The difference here is that groups which white nationalists identify with make for much worse politically expendable targets to perpetuate white welfare for the same.
 
Orignal Earl

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
agent00f said:
Missing from that section is the oil-for-mosques quid pro quo the west supported, much of which went into the saudi wahhabist muslim world league. Now, wahhabism certainly isn't "terrorism" per se, but much like arming the taliban it had rather counterproductive consequences.
Click to expand...

Even wahhabism has to be reinterpreted to produce a terrorist
 
A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Orignal Earl said:
Even wahhabism has to be reinterpreted to produce a terrorist
Click to expand...

The problem it created was thousands of mosques in west that answered back (more so) to a certain interpretation overrunning the previous more locally responsible ones.
 
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