The link you posted mentions: "That Barts will be offering good performance for a mid-range circuit is pretty obvious, but exactly how good is not as certain, but more information should appear very soon."
Therefore, we have no idea how much faster 6870 will be compared to 5850 or GTX460 . That article didn't mention anything about 8% hehe.
How much did you say Nvidia pays per wafer vs ATI? Unless you can answer that, you have no idea how much ,or even if the gtx 460 is losing money.How low can NV go with their gtx460 pricing to counter that? I'd have to say $200 for a 1gb gddr5 ~340mm2 card, packaged and shipped, is a slight loss.
I didn't see any official chip size for the Bart. Please link me.Barts is much smaller and can be priced however ATI wants to compete.
You mean direct x 11 performance to finally to the level of Nvidia.you get a 5850 with enhanced dx11
On par with a 5850 with beta or whatever drivers they are using and without finalized clocks. Or this is an underestimate from AMD again.Quote from article.
"According to other sources to NordicHardware AMD will start shipping reference cards to manufacturers and partners this week, for testing and evaluation. We can confirm that several manufacturers have tested the card and performance is said to be on par with Radeon HD 5850, but we will have to return with more details on the performance of the new mid-range cards.?
The 5850 is 8 percent faster, so if this card is "on par" with a 5850, I assume it's also about 8 percent faster. Fair enough?
Agreed ,the gtx 460 just recieved its second driver, it will improve also just like the gtx 470 caught up with the 5870.On par with a 5850 with beta or whatever drivers they are using and without finalized clocks. Or this is an underestimate from AMD again.
lol, it 9am here. I got up a 5am. I want to get 1000 posts todayAgreed ,the gtx 460 just recieved its second driver, it will improve also just like the gtx 470 caught up with the 5870.
Skurge got to bed, what time is it where your at?
Another thread states the mid-range 6870 (A.K.A 6770) will only be as fast as a 5850. So thats only 8 percent faster then a gtx 460. It better launch under 200$ to be competative vs the gtx 460. The gtx460 will be far below the 200$ mark by then.
I was assuming the gtx 460 prices would fall in the next 6 weeks. Seems logical.If this card is about 8% faster than the GTX 460 1GB, why should it launch at under $200?
With the uncertaintiy with the 6***, i am the only one thinking of the possibility that the cancelled TSMC 32nm that it was orginally going to be based on is a lie and it will be based on 32nm ?
This part I agree with... however, it would seem that TSMC is having trouble getting to its next process shrink after 40 nm.My point being is that the 6XXX cards were designed and finalized probably before AMD knew much of anything about the 460 at all, therefore saying the 6XXX series is a reaction to the 460 is probably not true.
Fermi refers to the current generation/family of architectures.I am not making this up. The code name Fermi refers to an architecture. If GT100 is the first generation(chip) based on this architecture, then gt104 is the second generation(chip) based on this architecture. While the word "Generation" is arguable, but the fact stays. GF100 was planned to be released before the end of 2009 and GF104 at the 2nd quarter of 2010. GF100 was 6 month off the mark but not GF104.
Prior to that, nVidia used a different naming scheme.The GT stands for "Graphics Tesla" and this is the second generation Graphics Tesla architecture, the first being the G80.
That is not correct.You are confused. GF104 to GF100 is what Juniper is to Cypress. Both companies create different chips based on the same architecture to target different markets (i.e., high-end and mainstream and low end).
There is no indication of a declining rate of sales (at least not in the steam data and not for the last few months) for the 5xxx series in the DX11 segment. There is a decline of market share which is not the same.Again, I didn't say "460 is making a hole in AMD's bank", but there exists an indication of a declining rate of sales on 5xxx series in the Dx11 segment while 460 is the sharpest one with a 2.86% growth.
That was just a commentary actually, no facts, just my speculation that a if they drop the 1gb gtx460 (obviously crippled to increase yields and help with the tight margins, no full fermi yet) to $175 as you have suggested, its not a money maker.How much did you say Nvidia pays per wafer vs ATI? Unless you can answer that, you have no idea how much ,or even if the gtx 460 is losing money.
You were doing real well until you started to spit out rumors ,guesses, and opinions as fact.
I think it's a realistic scenario. No company cuts 15-20% directly out of its margins for laughs, so something is up with the strategy NVIDIA is taking with the GTX 460. I don't know if they're selling it at a loss, I'd doubt it, but I think they're significantly cutting their margins to gain marketshare and at least make some money for their AIB's. Basically, you summed up Barts very well - you have a card that's superior in every metric to anything else within it's market segment and it's coming out in less than a month. The deciding factor will be how much of a premium AMD charges for this technology, and that will depend on their goals.That was just a commentary actually, no facts, just my speculation that a if they drop the 1gb gtx460 (obviously crippled to increase yields and help with the tight margins, no full fermi yet) to $175 as you have suggested, its not a money maker.
Now, you can speculate on this if you wish.. why do you think NV is dropping prices like mad all of a sudden on their best perf/price GPU, one that is a recommended buy from pretty much all reviewers?
Silver just seems to know a lot of stuff, or just be doing the basic math. We already know most of the specs of the 6770, as that one slide was either a fake, or was going a long with the naming scheme of a new 5770 rev being called the 6770, and 6770 being called 6870. The 460 actually took a large drop in price, and now its right back up there. NV is likely trying to make as much as possible before 6xxx, knowing the popularity of the 460. Most of what we know about the 6770 puts it at $180-240, more or less 460 price range, border line 150 watt, just like the 460, and temps at who knows, but amd has seemed to put on a new stock cooler, so might be better. Then, performance puts it at 5850-5870 range, so right around GTX 470. Id consider that a win if you ask me, 460 will have to drop to way below $200 to keep up, and even then AMD can just let the prices on the 5850 and 5870 plummet to keep pushing the 460 down and get them out of their warehouses.Yeah, but he's just getting started. Give him some time to moult.
The first paragraph of http://www.anandtech.com/show/2549Fermi refers to the current generation/family of architectures.
The 'F' in GF100/GF104/GF106 refers to 'Fermi'. So they are all part of the Fermi family, even though at a micro-architectural level they are not entirely equivalent.
The previous generation/family was called 'Tesla', that's what the T in GT2xx was for (the code names that is, not the product names).
Anandtech mentioned that:
Prior to that, nVidia used a different naming scheme.
G80 = the first generation of the GT architecture.The chip is codenamed GT200 and it's the successor to NVIDIA's G80 and G92 families. Why the change in naming? The GT stands for "Graphics Tesla" and this is the second generation Graphics Tesla architecture, the first being the G80.
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