Anonymous sperm donor identified

chcarnage

Golden Member
May 11, 2005
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In the past I've thought about the anonymity of sperm donors. Which is the higher value, the right of the donor to remain anonymous, or the right of the child to know the biological father? I tend to the latter. Looks like this becomes a topic again.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18825244.200

If I remember correctly, the number of sperm donors in a European country decreased significantly after the introduction of a new law which doesn't guarantee anonymity anymore...

LATE last year, a 15-year-old boy rubbed a swab along the inside of his cheek, popped it into a vial and sent it off to an online genealogy DNA-testing service. But unlike most people who contact the service, he was not interested in sketching the far reaches of his family tree. His mother had conceived using donor sperm and he wanted to track down his genetic father.

That the boy succeeded using only the DNA test, genealogical records and some internet searches has huge implications for the hundreds of thousands of people who were conceived using donor sperm. With the explosion of information about genetic inheritance, any man who has donated sperm could potentially be found by his biological offspring. Absent and unknown fathers will also become easier to trace.

The teenager tracked down his father from his Y chromosome. The Y is passed from father to son virtually unchanged, like a surname. So the pattern of gene variants it carries can help identify which paternal line an individual has descended from and can also be linked to a man's surname.

The boy paid FamilyTreeDNA.com $289 for the service. His genetic father had never supplied his DNA to the site, but all that was needed was for someone in the same paternal line to be on file. After nine months of waiting and having agreed to have his contact details available to other clients, the boy was contacted by two men with Y chromosomes closely matching his own. The two did not know each other, but the similarity between their Y chromosomes suggested there was a 50 per cent chance that all three had the same father, grandfather or great-grandfather.

Importantly, the men both had the same last name, albeit with different spellings. This was the vital clue the boy needed to start his search in earnest. Though his donor had been anonymous, his mother had been told the man's date and place of birth and his college degree. Using another online service, Omnitrace.com, he purchased the names of everyone that had been born in the same place on the same day. Only one man had the surname he was looking for, and within 10 days he had made contact.

"This is the first time that I know of it being done," says Bryan Sykes, a geneticist at the University of Oxford and chairman of OxfordAncestors.com, a genetic genealogy service. The case raises serious questions about whether past promises of anonymity can be honoured, he says.

Around 1 in 800 births in 2002 and 2003 in the UK were the product of donor sperm, according to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, a public body that regulates fertility technologies. And an estimated 25,000 people have been born from donated sperm in the UK in the past 15 years. Also, around 90,000 donor inseminations take place in the US annually, although not all result in pregnancies.

In the UK and various other countries, sperm donors must now allow their identity to be revealed to their children once they reach a certain age, but in the US most sperm donors are still anonymous. "Sperm banks are recruiting donors and promising them anonymity," says Wendy Kramer, the mother of a donor child and founder of DonorSiblingRegistry.com, an online service that matches donor offspring with their half-siblings. "I don't think that's a valid promise any more."

As more genetic information becomes available online, finding a donor father can only get easier. FamilyTreeDNA.com is running 2400 projects to trace particular surnames and has a database of over 45,000 Y chromosome signatures. The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, promises to go even further. It is recruiting people from around the world and hopes to compile a database of about 500,000 representative individuals, with confirmed pedigrees going back at least four generations. The foundation will keep a database of information on Y chromosome markers, mitochondrial DNA (passed down through the maternal line) and 170 other genetic markers.

The news will be especially unsettling for men who donated anonymously before the power of genetics was fully appreciated. Donors were often college students who traded their sperm for beer money. Many have not told their wives or children and have never considered the implications of having a dozen offspring suddenly wanting to meet them. "The case shows that there are ethical and social concerns about assisted reproduction that we did not think about," says Trudo Lemmens, a bioethicist at the University of Toronto, Canada.

And the implications go beyond offspring searching for their genetic fathers. "The DNA could have come from a crime scene," says Sykes. Police could perform similar searches to identify a criminal's surname, giving vital leads in a case. "There are tremendous forensic ramifications," he adds.

From issue 2524 of New Scientist magazine, 03 November 2005, page 6
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
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Great. . .I bet the next thing to come will be when the sperm donors are forced to pay child support for women who received their "donations" and then fall on hard times and have trouble raising the child.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Great. . .I bet the next thing to come will be when the sperm donors are forced to pay child support for women who received their "donations" and then fall on hard times and have trouble raising the child.

You can gurantee it.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,621
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This story had nothing to do with child support. That got projected onto it by the unconscious self hate of white male victims of modern liberal society that has shrunk the artificially inflated ball size of so many hyper-males blown up by old time but paternalistic religion as it spastically flops, like a dying fish in the bottom of society's boat. But out of curiosity, why should the sperm donor not pay child support? Suppose, just for example, had the woman been raped and was anti abortion, would he also get off there? How does the deposition of the 'sacred seed' in a place that slips them into women not impel the same obligation?
 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,524
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
This story had nothing to do with child support. That got projected onto it by the unconscious self hate of white male victims of modern liberal society that has shrunk the artificially inflated ball size of so many hyper-males blown up by old time but paternalistic religion as it spastically flops, like a dying fish in the bottom of society boat. But out of curiosity, why should the sperm donor not pay child support? Suppose, just for example, had the woman been raped and was anti abortion, would he also get off there? How does the deposition of the 'sacred seed' in a place that slips them into women not impel the same obligation?

i read that twice and i still don't understand it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,621
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Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
This story had nothing to do with child support. That got projected onto it by the unconscious self hate of white male victims of modern liberal society that has shrunk the artificially inflated ball size of so many hyper-males blown up by old time but paternalistic religion as it spastically flops, like a dying fish in the bottom of society boat. But out of curiosity, why should the sperm donor not pay child support? Suppose, just for example, had the woman been raped and was anti abortion, would he also get off there? How does the deposition of the 'sacred seed' in a place that slips them into women not impel the same obligation?

i read that twice and i still don't understand it.

Obviously so, I wrote 'society' instead of 'society's'. Fized it and it is now perfectly clear.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,621
6,452
126
Oh, man, maybe that lack of a possessive wasn't all that was throwing you off. OK, maybe this will help:

A projection is the psychological phenomenon if seeing out in the world what is occupying your mind consciously or unconsciously. A thief, for example, fears that others will steal from him, and a person with great animosity for others will fear being murdered. This truth, while widely known is little appreciated and seldom applies to oneself as a means of self analysis. The result is that people miss out of using a tool of powerful self analytic capacity. We are the world because of projection. What we see is what we are or are feeling without knowing it's what we are feeling.

The anticipation of dread, paranoia, the statement that sperm donors will soon be asked to pay child support, as a small example, arise in the mind as a reflection of feelings, unconscious and otherwise, but unconscious in coloration. An analysis of the projected fears of humanity, the notion of Armageddon, for example, reveal the fact that humanity hates itself, ie that each of us experiences self hate at an unconscious level and this self hate expresses via projection as the notion it's a hostile and evil world. That opinion, in turn is used to justify hating the other, because of course they hate me.

Against our overall insanity humanity is struggling to evolve out of its unconscious nightmare but without awakening to its true reality. We have freed our slaves, for example, on whom we used to dump all our self hate. And we have in the west begun the process of freeing our women from second class status. That status was imposed by the religious bigots of the past who imposed a dogmatic form of paternalistic monotheistic religion on the world in revolution against the religion of the Earth Mother. It was a revolution of men against women designed to insure sex whenever men want it. The Women's Revolution has thrown paternalistic egotistical males on their ear. Women have begun to demand that men be sensitive. That means they have to grow, emotionally. But emotional growth is the last thing an egotistical hyper male wants to do. Read macho male if that helps. We are evolving away from our defenses against recognizing our self hate. Rage, physical intimidation via strength, war, beer, fighting, dog eat dog competition, etc etc etc, these are all things we engage in to pretend we don't inwardly feel weak, and the more so the weaker we feel and need to mask that.

But these feelings of inadequacies, these feelings that we are really worthless and rightfully hateful, while lies we were impelled to believe because we were put down as children, while actually lies, are still deeply rooted in our psyches, but of course to varying degrees and with different characteristics. Like in everything, some people still have one hand on the vine. So you find this problem of woman hate, woman inferiority, particularly in indoctrinated members of the three major paternalistic-monotheistic religions. It takes time to evolve and we are all on different places on the curve.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
But out of curiosity, why should the sperm donor not pay child support? How does the deposition of the 'sacred seed' in a place that slips them into women not impel the same obligation?
For once, you and I disagree.

If Federal and state law held that a sperm-bank donor is liable for child support, then it would be completely reasonable (and inevitable) for a man who donated sperm to be held accountable when his sperm help create a child.

But current Federal and state laws state that sperm-bank donors CANNOT be held liable for child support. It would therefore be grossly unjust if a man, donating sperm under conditions fully compliant with the law, were to be assesssed child-support . Why would you think otherwise? Do you think men should be "fooled" into donating sperm, and then assessed child support as a "Gothcha!?"

If the laws were changed to make sperm-bank donors liable for child support, no non-insane man would ever donate sperm. Thus, single women, or those in relationships with men unable to father a child, would be unable to conceive.

It's thus in society's interest to protect sperm-bank donors from child-support claims.

 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
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It's already happened... Link
In America too

Granted these weren't annonymous donations but the pregnancies were not sexual in nature. In both cases the the women were impregnated through invitro fertilization at a clinic. But it's not a huge leap to go from known donors to unknown donors.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened in California yet. There are guys in that state paying child support for kids that have been genetically proven to belong to someone else.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,621
6,452
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Originally posted by: shira
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
But out of curiosity, why should the sperm donor not pay child support? How does the deposition of the 'sacred seed' in a place that slips them into women not impel the same obligation?
For once, you and I disagree.

If Federal and state law held that a sperm-bank donor is liable for child support, then it would be completely reasonable (and inevitable) for a man who donated sperm to be held accountable when his sperm help create a child.

But current Federal and state laws state that sperm-bank donors CANNOT be held liable for child support. It would therefore be grossly unjust if a man, donating sperm under conditions fully compliant with the law, were to be assesssed child-support . Why would you think otherwise? Do you think men should be "fooled" into donating sperm, and then assessed child support as a "Gothcha!?"

If the laws were changed to make sperm-bank donors liable for child support, no non-insane man would ever donate sperm. Thus, single women, or those in relationships with men unable to father a child, would be unable to conceive.

It's thus in society's interest to protect sperm-bank donors from child-support claims.
You should always be suspicious of yourself if you disagree with me. It can only mean that I am not stating a case I believe in or you are wrong. :) In this case it is the former. But I do think it interesting that our right winged friends here who so fear woman's power to choose to have an abortion against the wishes of her husband could also do so against the wishes of a donor. I would think that any donor who could demand his baby be brought to term, as our right winged folks doubtlessly wish, should also then pay child support, no?

 

imported_motodude

Senior member
Aug 3, 2004
344
0
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh, man, maybe that lack of a possessive wasn't all that was throwing you off. OK, maybe this will help:

A projection is the psychological phenomenon if seeing out in the world what is occupying your mind consciously or unconsciously. A thief, for example, fears that others will steal from him, and a person with great animosity for others will fear being murdered. This truth, while widely known is little appreciated and seldom applies to oneself as a means of self analysis. The result is that people miss out of using a tool of powerful self analytic capacity. We are the world because of projection. What we see is what we are or are feeling without knowing it's what we are feeling.

The anticipation of dread, paranoia, the statement that sperm donors will soon be asked to pay child support, as a small example, arise in the mind as a reflection of feelings, unconscious and otherwise, but unconscious in coloration. An analysis of the projected fears of humanity, the notion of Armageddon, for example, reveal the fact that humanity hates itself, ie that each of us experiences self hate at an unconscious level and this self hate expresses via projection as the notion it's a hostile and evil world. That opinion, in turn is used to justify hating the other, because of course they hate me.

Against our overall insanity humanity is struggling to evolve out of its unconscious nightmare but without awakening to its true reality. We have freed our slaves, for example, on whom we used to dump all our self hate. And we have in the west begun the process of freeing our women from second class status. That status was imposed by the religious bigots of the past who imposed a dogmatic form of paternalistic monotheistic religion on the world in revolution against the religion of the Earth Mother. It was a revolution of men against women designed to insure sex whenever men want it. The Women's Revolution has thrown paternalistic egotistical males on their ear. Women have begun to demand that men be sensitive. That means they have to grow, emotionally. But emotional growth is the last thing an egotistical hyper male wants to do. Read macho male if that helps. We are evolving away from our defenses against recognizing our self hate. Rage, physical intimidation via strength, war, beer, fighting, dog eat dog competition, etc etc etc, these are all things we engage in to pretend we don't inwardly feel weak, and the more so the weaker we feel and need to mask that.

But these feelings of inadequacies, these feelings that we are really worthless and rightfully hateful, while lies we were impelled to believe because we were put down as children, while actually lies, are still deeply rooted in our psyches, but of course to varying degrees and with different characteristics. Like in everything, some people still have one hand on the vine. So you find this problem of woman hate, woman inferiority, particularly in indoctrinated members of the three major paternalistic-monotheistic religions. It takes time to evolve and we are all on different places on the curve.


You have 5 seconds!

I hate men, beer, my parents, and montheistic religions. What is consciously or unconsciously occupying my mind.

GO.....
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It's already happened... Link
In America too

Granted these weren't annonymous donations but the pregnancies were not sexual in nature. In both cases the the women were impregnated through invitro fertilization at a clinic. But it's not a huge leap to go from known donors to unknown donors.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened in California yet. There are guys in that state paying child support for kids that have been genetically proven to belong to someone else.

California has laws protecting anonymous sperm donors, which Pennsylvania does not. Like I wrote, and as is pointed out in the story, if anonymous sperm donors are judged liable for child support, men will cease donating sperm. That would be a tragedy for women who cannot otherwise conceive.

You should also note that it would be exactly analogous for egg donors. If this sperm-donor case stands, what would prevent egg donors from being sued for child support if their eggs are used to conceive a child? What woman in her right mind would donate her eggs under such circumstances?

As the story points out, if sperm donated in California were shipped to Pennsylvania, the donor (completely protected under California law) could nevertheless be liable in Pennsylvania. Even an agreement between the donor and the California clinic wouldn't solve the problem, since if the clinic nevertheless (in violation of its contract with the donor) shipped the sperm to a state without donor-protection laws, a plaintiff could come after both the clinic and the donor. So cases like this would be absolutely catastrophic to the entire donor industry.

What's needed is a strong Federal law on this issue. I've been assuming one already existed, but I'm shocked to find that that's not the case.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,621
6,452
126
Originally posted by: motodude
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Oh, man, maybe that lack of a possessive wasn't all that was throwing you off. OK, maybe this will help:

A projection is the psychological phenomenon if seeing out in the world what is occupying your mind consciously or unconsciously. A thief, for example, fears that others will steal from him, and a person with great animosity for others will fear being murdered. This truth, while widely known is little appreciated and seldom applies to oneself as a means of self analysis. The result is that people miss out of using a tool of powerful self analytic capacity. We are the world because of projection. What we see is what we are or are feeling without knowing it's what we are feeling.

The anticipation of dread, paranoia, the statement that sperm donors will soon be asked to pay child support, as a small example, arise in the mind as a reflection of feelings, unconscious and otherwise, but unconscious in coloration. An analysis of the projected fears of humanity, the notion of Armageddon, for example, reveal the fact that humanity hates itself, ie that each of us experiences self hate at an unconscious level and this self hate expresses via projection as the notion it's a hostile and evil world. That opinion, in turn is used to justify hating the other, because of course they hate me.

Against our overall insanity humanity is struggling to evolve out of its unconscious nightmare but without awakening to its true reality. We have freed our slaves, for example, on whom we used to dump all our self hate. And we have in the west begun the process of freeing our women from second class status. That status was imposed by the religious bigots of the past who imposed a dogmatic form of paternalistic monotheistic religion on the world in revolution against the religion of the Earth Mother. It was a revolution of men against women designed to insure sex whenever men want it. The Women's Revolution has thrown paternalistic egotistical males on their ear. Women have begun to demand that men be sensitive. That means they have to grow, emotionally. But emotional growth is the last thing an egotistical hyper male wants to do. Read macho male if that helps. We are evolving away from our defenses against recognizing our self hate. Rage, physical intimidation via strength, war, beer, fighting, dog eat dog competition, etc etc etc, these are all things we engage in to pretend we don't inwardly feel weak, and the more so the weaker we feel and need to mask that.

But these feelings of inadequacies, these feelings that we are really worthless and rightfully hateful, while lies we were impelled to believe because we were put down as children, while actually lies, are still deeply rooted in our psyches, but of course to varying degrees and with different characteristics. Like in everything, some people still have one hand on the vine. So you find this problem of woman hate, woman inferiority, particularly in indoctrinated members of the three major paternalistic-monotheistic religions. It takes time to evolve and we are all on different places on the curve.


You have 5 seconds!

I hate men, beer, my parents, and montheistic religions. What is consciously or unconsciously occupying my mind.

GO.....
Looks like it would be a competative drive that leaves you feeling rushed.

 

winr

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2001
6,081
56
91
If the donors are obligated to pay child support are they entitled to visitation?

:)