Annapolis Professor Says Academies "Need To Be Fixed Or Abolished"

[Danube]

I can agree with a lot of what this guy writes (although the lowered standards seem to be worse at Annapolis since it tries harder to get athletes who don't really fit military and academic life). I've noticed a decline at the academy I am near. It feels more and more like an average college except with lots of exercises and costumes thrown in.


Some highlights from NYT opinion bit:

"The Academies’ March Toward Mediocrity"


"The Naval Academy, where I have been a professor for 23 years, has lost its way. The same is true of the other service academies. They are a net loss to the taxpayers who finance them, as well as a huge disappointment to their students, who come expecting reality to match reputation. They need to be fixed or abolished...

The institutions are set on doing things their own way, yet I know of nobody in the Navy or other services who would argue that graduates of Annapolis or West Point are, as a group, better than those who become officers through other programs..

Instead of better officers, the academies produce burned-out midshipmen and cadets. They come to us thinking they’ve entered a military Camelot, and find a maze of petty rules with no visible future application...


A program that is placing strain on the academies is an unofficial affirmative-action preference in admissions. While we can debate the merits of universities making diversity a priority in deciding which students to admit, how can one defend the use of race as a factor at taxpayer-financed academies — especially those whose purpose is to defend the Constitution? Yet, as I can confirm from the years I spent on the admissions board in 2002 and ’03 and from my conversations with more recent board members, if an applicant identifies himself or herself as non-white, the bar for qualification immediately drops...



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/opinion/21fleming.html

 

[Danube]

Just awhile ago I was looking at a photo of some local West Point grads and noticed the photographer lowered camera down to height of the female cadet (who's no doubt a nice kid) to conceal fact she is a midget.

West Point gets just over 10,000 applicants a year and takes in around 1200 for a class. They will say they are getting the best but they aren't because they have quotas. West Point is around 20% female now and most of them probably can't bench their own weight.

 

[Kappo]

Having some personal experience with West Point I can agree with a lot of what this guy writes (although the lowered standards seem to be worse at Annapolis since it tries harder to get athletes who don't really fit military and academic life).

Some highlights from NYT opinion bit:

"The Academies’ March Toward Mediocrity"


"The Naval Academy, where I have been a professor for 23 years, has lost its way. The same is true of the other service academies. They are a net loss to the taxpayers who finance them, as well as a huge disappointment to their students, who come expecting reality to match reputation. They need to be fixed or abolished...

The institutions are set on doing things their own way, yet I know of nobody in the Navy or other services who would argue that graduates of Annapolis or West Point are, as a group, better than those who become officers through other programs..

Instead of better officers, the academies produce burned-out midshipmen and cadets. They come to us thinking they’ve entered a military Camelot, and find a maze of petty rules with no visible future application...


A program that is placing strain on the academies is an unofficial affirmative-action preference in admissions. While we can debate the merits of universities making diversity a priority in deciding which students to admit, how can one defend the use of race as a factor at taxpayer-financed academies — especially those whose purpose is to defend the Constitution? Yet, as I can confirm from the years I spent on the admissions board in 2002 and ’03 and from my conversations with more recent board members, if an applicant identifies himself or herself as non-white, the bar for qualification immediately drops...



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/opinion/21fleming.html

With an entire party devoted to screaming racism if you don't like something from someone non-white, why would they need to be any different?

 

[Cheesetogo]

I'm having a hard time connecting the overall reduction in quality to more women entering the academy. Most students are still the traditional male, are they not?

 

[Danube]

I'm having a hard time connecting the overall reduction in quality to more women entering the academy. Most students are still the traditional male, are they not?

Yes most are male - and all viewed as a potential rapist so there are lots of anti-rape PC sensitivity seminars (along with the ones for Muslims etc).

The feminists and the left in general resent the military because it represents a masculine ethic and is also traditional and conservative. They use "diversity" as a way to break it down.

In his book "The Failure Factory: How Unelected Bureaucrats, Liberal Democrats, and Big Government Republicans Are Undermining America's Security and Leading Us to War" Bill Gertz wrote about how Clinton appointed lots of military staff that would aim for "diversity" more than anything else. These were called "Clinton Generals" .

As more women get pumped into military and rise up the ranks (as they will - deserve it or not)its hoped they will feminize it and skew it to the left. The "diversifiers" want to use homosexual in military the same way.

The left's main goal with military is to feminize it, homosexualise it, defund it and tangle it up in PC red tape and suicidal RoE.

It's well known that as one goes up the military ladder guys like those in special forces often have no career at highest levels and a bureaucratic type is more successful. The girls will be perfect for that kind of thin.

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me, in terms of the short female, I see no reason to believe she is any better or any worse than the male counterparts. Naval ships now have power steering as an non optional feature. And in any modern Navy brains and not brawn is the commodity needed.

Especially since our OP's boy is citing petty Naval regulations and general browbeating for the reductions in quality.

 

[LumbergTech]

Yes most are male - and all viewed as a potential rapist so there is lots of anti-rape PC sensitivity seminars (along with the ones for Muslims etc).

The feminists and the left in general resent the military because it represents a masculine ethic and is also traditional and conservative. They use "diversity" as a way to break it down.

In his book "The Failure Factory: How Unelected Bureaucrats, Liberal Democrats, and Big Government Republicans Are Undermining America's Security and Leading Us to War" Bill Gertz wrote about how Clinton appointed lots of military staff that would aim for "diversity" more than anything else. These were called "Clinton Generals" .

As more women get pumped into military and rise up the ranks (as they will - deserve it or not)its hoped they will feminize it and skew it to the left. The "diversifiers" want to use homosexual in military the same way.

The left's main goal with military is to feminize it, homosexualise it, defund it and tangle it up in PC red tape and suicidal RoE.

It's well known that as one goes up the military ladder guys like those in special forces often have no career at highest levels and a bureaucratic type is more successful. The girls will be perfect for that kind of thin.

are you aware of the rape rates in the military?

 

[Danube]

are you aware of the rape rates in the military?

I know what they are at the academies and that's almost zip. I'm sure there are more in other places within military since they are forcing more and more women into places they don't belong (like submarines now). Navy ships are getting like brothels and the pregnancy rate goes higher and higher and the women have to be left on shore for a year.


Navy to allow women to serve on submarines
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/ap_on_re_us/us_women_on_submarines

 

[Lemon law]

Given the US military success rate and Vietnam, and in occupations like Iraq and Afghanistan, I can certainly advocate much less killing and a lot more looking at the other person's point of view. If that is what our OP's boy means by Clinton generals, I say we need more Clinton generals and not less. Surely a Clinton general can better the record of the good ole boy network generals since they can hardly do worse!

But in terms of sheer brains and diversity, I have to point out the shining example of Colin Powell, who not only was a non service academy product, but could have fixed many of GWB mistakes if anyone ever listened to him. But Powell was a prize patsy for following orders and taking it on the chin for the team.

 

[Patranus]

Given the US military success rate and Vietnam, and in occupations like Iraq and Afghanistan, I can certainly advocate much less killing and a lot more looking at the other person's point of view. If that is what our OP's boy means by Clinton generals, I say we need more Clinton generals and not less. Surely a Clinton general can better the record of the good ole boy network generals since they can hardly do worse!

The US military operation in Iraq has been very successful.
In fact more people are murdered by illegal immigrants in a single year than have died in Iraq since 2003.

 

[Lemon law]

Tweet, I question your Petranus statistic of, "In fact more people are murdered by illegal immigrants in a single year than have died in Iraq since 2003."

The number of Iraqis, killed, murdered, and exiled in 2003 and beyond, numbers well in the many hundreds of thousands and may in fact exceed a million.

As for Iraqi, it certainly looks far brighter now, but we are all a long way from out of the woods yet. Iraqi stability may be miles wide, but it is barely an inch deep. No real political progress has occurred between the competing groups of Shia, Sunnis, and Kurds, and any number of events could send thing spiraling out of all control.

 

[Danube]

The number of Iraqis, killed, murdered, and exiled in 2003 and beyond, numbers well in the many hundreds of thousands and may in fact exceed a million.

If you use environmental wacko math and include the people who won't be born because of deaths then the lost lives could be in the billions.

 

[Lemon law]

If you use environmental wacko math and include the people who won't be born because of deaths then the lost lives could be in the billions.

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No Danube I am not using wacko math, there were and still are estimates that the deaths numbered at 600,000 to 800,000 level by 2006, and that does not even include the perhaps 2 million exiled for which harder figures exist. Just because an Iraq in anarchy had no means to count the deaths does not mean they did not occur. As entire large cities formerly majority Sunni are now majority Shia, including Baghdad.

 

[Patranus]

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No Danube I am not using wacko math, there were and still are estimates that the deaths numbered at 600,000 to 800,000 level by 2006, and that does not even include the perhaps 2 million exiled for which harder figures exist. Just because an Iraq in anarchy had no means to count the deaths does not mean they did not occur. As entire large cities formerly majority Sunni are now majority Shia, including Baghdad.

Let me rephrase then.
More AMERICANS are killed by illegal immigrants in AMERICAN each year than AMERICANS killed since 2003 in Iraq.

 

[Danube]

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No Danube I am not using wacko math, there were and still are estimates that the deaths numbered at 600,000 to 800,000 level by 2006, and that does not even include the perhaps 2 million exiled for which harder figures exist. Just because an Iraq in anarchy had no means to count the deaths does not mean they did not occur. As entire large cities formerly majority Sunni are now majority Shia, including Baghdad.

Saddam oppressed the Shia (and Kurds) and locked them out despite fact they made up 60% of population. Sunni were only 20% of population. Now that Shia can vote etc I'm not surprised if they are in cities and more in evidence.

 

[Lemon law]

The point is Danube, no one argues that Saddam was not a world class rascal, or that Saddam favored only the 20% Sunni minority. But when population shifts of that magnitude occurred during the US occupation, its was achieved not by peaceful means but rather by violent ethnic cleansing on the US watch which is impossible to deny.

Maybe better estimates may exist in future, but still, by any terms, the US military occupation of Iraq has shaken the world's faith in US diplomacy.

Many of us may have hoped Obama could rehabilitate that world faith in the USA, but sad to say, Obama is redeeming little in Afghanistan. Obama may be much better than GWB, but so far its been too little too late lack of a single clue in Afghanistan.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Please keep this thread on the original subject or it can be locked


Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[ProfJohn]

Good article by someone who knows what he speaks about.

I wonder if it will make a difference.

The goals of the academies should be to produce high level career oriented officers who will rise up to become the generals and admirals of the future. Elements of the academies that don't produce that result should be thrown aside.

 

[cwjerome]

The goals of the academies should be to produce high level career oriented officers who will rise up to become the generals and admirals of the future. Elements of the academies that don't produce that result should be thrown aside.

Perhaps. But it's just one commissioning source, and in my own anecdotal experience, West Point graduates are no more or less qualified than ROTC or OCS graduates.

Speaking of anecdotal experience, that's all the article is... one person's opinion, and not based on much as far as I can tell. Food for thought, but I wouldn't go around make huge assumptions based off of it.

The OP said, "It feels more and more like an average college except with lots of exercises and costumes thrown in."

Well, that's not far off. I would summarize as this: It feels more and more like an above-average college except with lots of exercises, military studies, and costumes thrown in, in a more competitive atmosphere.

I hate to say it, but that's all they've ever been, and I don't see that being too different today. Usually when someone writes something like this there are ulterior motives.

 

[ProfJohn]

Perhaps. But it's just one commissioning source, and in my own anecdotal experience, West Point graduates are no more or less qualified than ROTC or OCS graduates.

That is the problem.

The goal shouldn't be to produce average qualified officers but to produce the best officers in the military. Otherwise we should shut them down and devote more time and money towards ROTC programs.

For the amount of money we spend per student our one and only goal should be to produce flag officers. Otherwise we are wasting a LOT of money on producing average officers who may only spend a few years in the service.

 

[cwjerome]

That is the problem.

The goal shouldn't be to produce average qualified officers but to produce the best officers in the military. Otherwise we should shut them down and devote more time and money towards ROTC programs.

For the amount of money we spend per student our one and only goal should be to produce flag officers. Otherwise we are wasting a LOT of money on producing average officers who may only spend a few years in the service.

Sounds good in writing, not so much in reality. You really want an officer corp where one subgroup is elite and supposed to be better than the others? I think you have no idea what that would mean... the implications are incredibly problematic and undesirable.

Besides, you just can't control for that kind of thing. Intelligent, great leaders come from everywhere and can't all just be trained. OCS allows prior enlisted -with their valuable experience and training- to become officers. Not everyone can go to West Point... there are thousands of highly qualified people whose only choice is ROTC, and they go on to do great things.

This aristocratic fantasy people have about West Point never was and never should be.

 

[Zebo]

Military is just another form of welfare these days. Cream puff generals, unthinking about laws of warfare who get their ass handed to them by men who know how to fight still on 1/1000000th of the budget, the Taliban. Reverence for them is misplaced and we should cancel the whole failed program. I feel sorry for our young men and women led by these fools.

 

[Danube]

Pat Buchanan also wrote about this some months ago:

Dumbing-Down the U.S. Navy

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=32595

 

[ebaycj]

Military is just another form of welfare these days. Cream puff generals, unthinking about laws of warfare who get their ass handed to them by men who know how to fight still on 1/1000000th of the budget, the Taliban. Reverence for them is misplaced and we should cancel the whole failed program. I feel sorry for our young men and women led by these fools.

This.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Just awhile ago I was looking at a photo of some local West Point grads and noticed the photographer lowered camera down to height of the female cadet (who's no doubt a nice kid) to conceal fact she is a midget.

West Point gets just over 10,000 applicants a year and takes in around 1200 for a class. They will say they are getting the best but they aren't because they have quotas. West Point is around 20% female now and most of them probably can't bench their own weight.

Wow, discriminate much, do you? Certainly height is important in the real world, I mean, Napoleon never did anything important, now did he?

Are you a racist too, or just a sexist? Either way, it's disgusting.