Anger Showing Among Special Operations Forces

[Nemesis 1]

Well in that area of the world last spring the britts had people in trouble . it was americans from the embassecy that saved the britts , This event lasted along while considering the 2 specials ops soldiers didn't die till 4:30 in the morning

 

[hal2kilo]

Murdering 4 Americans isn't wise on his part The president refuses to show the exacute order that would clear himself of any wrong doing

Prove it or shut the F up you disrespectful asshole.

The hate and blind rage displayed in these posts is fucking incredible.

 

[Fern]

Naval Support Activity base in Naples, Italy. They can scramble Seals and/or Marines in a half hour and be briefed of their mission in flight.

No need for Naples. I keep hearing about our forces in Sigonella. Depending upon the site, I see a distance of +400 miles (some say 420, others say 470). We have rapid response teams, including about 120 Marines from what I hear along with all the air assets needed (e.g., C130's etc.)

Fern

 

[EagleKeeper]

You gotta be pretty careful about launching an air strike on sovereign foreign soil and killing their citizens. Most countries don't take that very well. That's why it's the job of the host country to provide security for the embassies.

Why do I even try to use logic with conservatives on this board again?

And what should be done when the host is unable/unwilling to deliver the security needed.

 

[Fern]

Prove it or shut the F up you disrespectful asshole.

The hate and blind rage displayed in these posts is fucking incredible.

Basically he's correct. If Obama had ordered that we do whatever necessary an execute order would be typed up.

So, it either exists or it doesn't. If it does then Panetta's claim that he and the two generals decided to do nothing means they disobeyed Obama's orders.

Things don't add up.

Fern

 

[Fern]

You gotta be pretty careful about launching an air strike on sovereign foreign soil and killing their citizens. Most countries don't take that very well. That's why it's the job of the host country to provide security for the embassies.

Why do I even try to use logic with conservatives on this board again?

I'd say that only launching an air strike after your consulate came under attack by a terrorist group is being "pretty careful". This is especially so when the nascent Libyan govt has no control over that part of the country.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Prove it or shut the F up you disrespectful asshole.

The hate and blind rage displayed in these posts is fucking incredible.

You see nothing ironic about this post? Nothing at all?

And what should be done when the host is unable/unwilling to deliver the security needed.

Evidently to the proggies, the answer is "Die quietly".

The problem I have with these stories is credibility. Active duty SpecOps cannot come forward when they feel wronged; they can only be represented by their buddies who are no longer active. However - just because retired warriors are making this case doesn't mean it's true, for they're as vulnerable to political expediency as the rest of us. Even assuming the sentiment is true - and I tend to believe it is, as their brother warriors put their asses on the line and got left dangling, which has to cause some anger and feelings of betrayal - that doesn't necessarily translate to Obama malfeasance.

Clearly the Obama administration is still in stonewall mode, but politically it's the wise (if callous) thing to do. Clearly some atrocious security decisions were made before this incident, and clearly the chain of command left these SEALs hanging out to dry when the had the means and the moral duty to support them. But does that reflect on Obama's leadership? There's so much FUD and smoke being spread here that I honestly don't know, and I'm a right wing, fairly anti-Obama guy. If I'm not convinced, I can't see a statistically significant number of swayable voters pulling the lever based on this tragic incident. And of course, assuming Obama wins there is zero chance of any meaningful investigation here. Hell, they might even go back to the riot over a video story.

 

[Jhhnn]

No need for Naples. I keep hearing about our forces in Sigonella. Depending upon the site, I see a distance of +400 miles (some say 420, others say 470). We have rapid response teams, including about 120 Marines from what I hear along with all the air assets needed (e.g., C130's etc.)

Fern

The distance is nonetheless too great for help to have arrived in time, even with perfect information & instant response. Absolute reasonable minimum, 3 hrs, and by then Smith was already dead, Stevens likely fatally afflicted as well. Libyan civilians pulled Stevens from the building just over 3 hrs into the affair, indicating that it was over at that point.

C130's are immaterial- the only way to get rapid response to the compound would have been via helicopter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_the_U.S._diplomatic_mission_in_Benghazi

The whole notion that Obama refused to send help is scurrilous. The whole thing took less than 3 hrs, and reasonable help was further away than that.

 

[smashp]

This Swift Boat Karl Rove Crap is getting sickening. They just cant make their Fud stick on the Wall. Now I really understand why Romney couldn't wait to release his statement at 10:24 PM on Sept 11th.

"I'm outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It's disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks"

Oh yeah, this was all about some Twitter tweet that some Twat working in the Egypt embassy wrote early in the day about the 2000 Salafist activists at the gates protesting

They tried to make this about the Apology tour, then the obama foreign policy, now of course later in October days away from the election, Call of traitor and treason.

Just go to google news and search for Benghazi stories Outside of the United States (notice i dont mention from non-right wing nutjob sites, even though thats all they are posted on).

There is next to no press outside of politically motivated individuals pushing this crap. If there was any there there, Issa would hold hearings. But if its all just pontificating BS, than none of those (r) congress boys want to start crap during an election year.

 

[Fern]

The distance is nonetheless too great for help to have arrived in time, even with perfect information & instant response. Absolute reasonable minimum, 3 hrs, and by then Smith was already dead, Stevens likely fatally afflicted as well. Libyan civilians pulled Stevens from the building just over 3 hrs into the affair, indicating that it was over at that point.

Even if they couldn't have gotten there earlier enough to save Stevens there were plenty of other people there. The two ex-SEALS are said to have saved quite a few. And of course those two ex-SEALS who flew in from Tripoli could likely have been saved.

C130's are immaterial- the only way to get rapid response to the compound would have been via helicopter.

And military personnel disagree you with about a C130. They have a top flight speed close to 400 mph. Benghazi has an airport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benina_International_Airport

The whole notion that Obama refused to send help is scurrilous. The whole thing took less than 3 hrs, and reasonable help was further away than that.

Where are you getting 3 hrs from?

I'm hearing 7 hrs. Attack started at about 9PM and the two SEALs were killed at about 4:30AM the next day IIRC. Your own link confirms the 7 hrs period:

The Benghazi attack consisted of military assaults on two separate U.S. diplomatic compound about 1.2 miles apart, one for the consulate that began at 9:40 pm local time and a second one for the CIA annex at about 4 am

Clearly, SOMEBODY did refuse to send help. And so far, if Petraeus is to be believed, it wasn't the CIA that refused. It couldn't have been the State Dept; they are not in that chain of command. Accordingly, there are only two possibilities: The White House and the military. It really is that simple.

Right now we're stuck with conflicting stories. Obama said he ordered them to do whatever was necessary. Panetta said he and the generals decided to do nothing, disobeying Obama's orders. The military is not in the habit of disobeying a President's orders. Something is clearly amiss here. Either Obama ordered them to do nothing, or the military disobeyed Obama, neither of which is acceptable.

I suspect there's more going on here than meets the eye. I find Amb. Steven's presence in Benghazi rather curious given the dangerous conditions and the fact that every other country etc had already pulled out of there. I don't see why his meeting with the Turkish official couldn't have been in Tripoli. The rumors floating around about MANPADS and illegal arms shipments to Syria via Turkey have left me wondering if concerns about those surface-to-air missiles are what made us refuse help.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

Even if they couldn't have gotten there earlier enough to save Stevens there were plenty of other people there. The two ex-SEALS are said to have saved quite a few. And of course those two ex-SEALS who flew in from Tripoli could likely have been saved.



And military personnel disagree you with about a C130. They have a top flight speed close to 400 mph. Benghazi has an airport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benina_International_Airport



Where are you getting 3 hrs from?

I'm hearing 7 hrs. Attack started at about 9PM and the two SEALs were killed at about 4:30AM the next day IIRC. Your own link confirms the 7 hrs period:



Clearly, SOMEBODY did refuse to send help. And so far, if Petraeus is to be believed, it wasn't the CIA that refused. It couldn't have been the State Dept; they are not in that chain of command. Accordingly, there are only two possibilities: The White House and the military. It really is that simple.

Right now we're stuck with conflicting stories. Obama said he ordered them to do whatever was necessary. Panetta said he and the generals decided to do nothing, disobeying Obama's orders. The military is not in the habit of disobeying a President's orders. Something is clearly amiss here. Either Obama ordered them to do nothing, or the military disobeyed Obama, neither of which is acceptable.

I suspect there's more going on here than meets the eye. I find Amb. Steven's presence in Benghazi rather curious given the dangerous conditions and the fact that every other country etc had already pulled out of there. I don't see why his meeting with the Turkish official couldn't have been in Tripoli. The rumors floating around about MANPADS and illegal arms shipments to Syria via Turkey have left me wondering if concerns about those surface-to-air missiles are what made us refuse help.

Fern

Heh. The two fatalities at the annex occurred from a mortar attack in the initial moments. More personnel on the scene would have been meaningless. The attack was repulsed, if the intent ever was to overrun the place.

The rest? standard after the fact second guessing & blaming, wrapped in more innuendo & speculation. "Do whatever is necessary" means "do what you think you can that's constructive" which means nobody disobeyed orders at all... pure hogwash on your part.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Prove it or shut the F up you disrespectful asshole.

The hate and blind rage displayed in these posts is fucking incredible.

All Obama has to do is show us the execute order that had to be hand written. without Its all on him . we know were the missiles went.

 

[Matt1970]

You realize its in a city right, full of people? I know to people like you all brown people are terrorists, but it is a city. Maybe you and eaglekeeper should sign up and go show us how its done, or continue talking big about how many brown people you'd like to kill.



Haha, breitbart, you people will believe anything.

You are calling me a racist? Fuck you. You are welcome to go back through any of my posts and find one racist statement I have ever made. For your information an angry mob storming our embassy shooting AK47s and RPGs is hardly going to have many innocent people in it.

 

[Matt1970]

You gotta be pretty careful about launching an air strike on sovereign foreign soil and killing their citizens. Most countries don't take that very well. That's why it's the job of the host country to provide security for the embassies.

Why do I even try to use logic with conservatives on this board again?

Ya, and we shouldn't be taking it too kindly when they overtake our embassy which is US soil. An angry mod is attacking US Citizens on US Soil and you are worried it might upset the foreign Government? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

 

[CitizenKain]

You are calling me a racist? Fuck you. You are welcome to go back through any of my posts and find one racist statement I have ever made. For your information an angry mob storming our embassy shooting AK47s and RPGs is hardly going to have many innocent people in it.

Truth hurts huh? If you think just dropping bombs somewhere in a city is a great idea, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[monovillage]

You are calling me a racist? Fuck you. You are welcome to go back through any of my posts and find one racist statement I have ever made. For your information an angry mob storming our embassy shooting AK47s and RPGs is hardly going to have many innocent people in it.

Kain, Jhhnn, Thrash are just lying and trying to help this administration in their cover-up/stonewall by diverting any and all inquiries. It's the kind of lying pieces of shit that they are, it's what they do, lie for their causes. Get used to the attacks because you want to discuss what they want to hide.

 

[Jaskalas]

Basically he's correct. If Obama had ordered that we do whatever necessary an execute order would be typed up.

So, it either exists or it doesn't. If it does then Panetta's claim that he and the two generals decided to do nothing means they disobeyed Obama's orders.

Things don't add up.

Fern

Panetta made it explicitly clear that he does not order forces into spontaneous events that crop up, even in this case where it's our Ambassador being killed.

Americans overseas, you stand alone.

 

[CitizenKain]

Kain, Jhhnn, Thrash are just lying and trying to help this administration in their cover-up/stonewall by diverting any and all inquiries. It's the kind of lying pieces of shit that they are, it's what they do, lie for their causes. Get used to the attacks because you want to discuss what they want to hide.

Hahahaha, you are in no position to accuse anyone of lying.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Panetta made it explicitly clear that he does not order forces into spontaneous events that crop up, even in this case where it's our Ambassador being killed.

Americans overseas, you stand alone.

We have sworn testemony that alot of what he says is a lie . that testimony has been viewed on this forum . So believe who ever ya like . I didn't know he was the president . The president says he gave orders to go in , If the president is telling truth there will be an execute order. He is sending a good message to young fighting men . We will leave you to die . tuff luck boys take one for the country

 

[werepossum]

Heh. The two fatalities at the annex occurred from a mortar attack in the initial moments. More personnel on the scene would have been meaningless. The attack was repulsed, if the intent ever was to overrun the place.

The rest? standard after the fact second guessing & blaming, wrapped in more innuendo & speculation. "Do whatever is necessary" means "do what you think you can that's constructive" which means nobody disobeyed orders at all... pure hogwash on your part.

The annex attack occurred some hours after the initial attack. A prompt response would not have saved Smith and Stevens, but could well have saved the SEALs, assuming it's true that one of them lased the mortar. Mortars must either have direct line of sight or forward observers to correct fire; either can be taken out with a laser-guided bomb or an old-fashioned .50 Barrett. And had Stevens been given a proper American security detail when he requested it - as is only common sense in any Arab or Muslim country - he'd likely be alive today. An indigenous security detail will scatter at any determined attack, abandoning their nominal non-Muslim responsibility to save their own Muslim skins. To quote the Pig, everyone knows this. Even Obama - now.

 

[monovillage]

The annex attack occurred some hours after the initial attack. A prompt response would not have saved Smith and Stevens, but could well have saved the SEALs, assuming it's true that one of them lased the mortar. Mortars must either have direct line of sight or forward observers to correct fire; either can be taken out with a laser-guided bomb or an old-fashioned .50 Barrett. And had Stevens been given a proper American security detail when he requested it - as is only common sense in any Arab or Muslim country - he'd likely be alive today. An indigenous security detail will scatter at any determined attack, abandoning their nominal non-Muslim responsibility to save their own Muslim skins. To quote the Pig, everyone knows this. Even Obama - now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...4c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html

Over 7 hours according to this timeline. I love how the title celebrates that they didn't find "evidence" of conspiracy. ....................at least so far.

 

[ivwshane]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...4c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html

Over 7 hours according to this timeline. I love how the title celebrates that they didn't find "evidence" of conspiracy. ....................at least so far.

As opposed to you who is rooting for a conspiracy? You are an ass.

 

[Matt1970]

Truth hurts huh? If you think just dropping bombs somewhere in a city is a great idea, I don't know what to tell you.

I think understand why you would call someone racist for wanting to defend Americans in need of help. You have no excuse for what the Obama adminstration did so it is better to start insulting the people seeking aswers.

 

[thraashman]

Ya, and we shouldn't be taking it too kindly when they overtake our embassy which is US soil. An angry mod is attacking US Citizens on US Soil and you are worried it might upset the foreign Government? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

You should at least make sure you're informed before you make an argument. Embassies are sovereign territory of the host country not the represented country. It's one of the reasons embassies don't host military personal generally but instead a security force. Most governments are not ok with a foreign military force being deployed on THEIR soil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy#Extraterritoriality

 

[Darwin333]

Truth hurts huh? If you think just dropping bombs somewhere in a city is a great idea, I don't know what to tell you.

According to reports there was an ex-seal on the ground lazing a target which means that precision munitions could have been used and collateral damage minimized. Not only that but a low flyover by a few F-18s could very well have scared at least some of the attackers away. I know if I was attacking an American Embassy and some American planes with the ability to fuck all our shit up showed up, I would be gone.