Andrew Yang - [UBI] a candidate that wants to give you $1000/month to EVERY ADULT IN USA.

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
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Universal Basic Income Explained by Kurzgesagt (Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation)

Yes, all the skeptical questions we all have are directly addressed.

Andrew Yang on The Ben Shapiro Show

This is an extremely well conducted on interview. It's an intelligent exchange of ideas and discussions. And if you're super into politics, Ben is supposedly uber right wing. So Andrew's is in a lion's den, especially in today's deeply divided climate.

I'd like to keep this apolitical. It's about technology eating capitalism and how we address it.

Moved from OT.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,412
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I'd like to keep this apolitical. It's about technology eating capitalism and how we address it.

i think it's most likely in the 21st century US that the automation increases unchecked, the gap between the haves and have-nots widens, and we end up with perhaps %50 of the population on welfare in 50 years or so.

in which case welfare basically becomes the UBI.

maybe we'll even get some of those final fantasy style two-tiered cities where the haves live on the elevated section, and the have-nots live on the ground or underground.

of course this means we'll need flying cars by then. we had better have flying cars by 2050 or i'm gonna be really disappointed with when i was born.
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
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i think it's most likely in the 21st century US that the automation increases unchecked, the gap between the haves and have-nots widens, and we end up with perhaps %50 of the population on welfare in 50 years or so.

in which case welfare basically becomes the UBI.

maybe we'll even get some of those final fantasy style two-tiered cities where the haves live on the elevated section, and the have-nots live on the ground or underground.

of course this means we'll need flying cars by then. we had better have flying cars by 2050 or i'm gonna be really disappointed with when i was born.

America and the West are on the downswing. SE Asia and Asia in general are on the upswing. If you want a better life you want to move to SE Asia. The cost of living in VN is pretty amazing.I have a buddy who is living on 1000 USD a month. Has a beautiful condo on the beach. A maid that cleans and cooks for him. His quality of life is much much better than it ever was when he lived in America.

I do think automation will take away lower tier jobs, like cashier and truck driver. Do I think it will have be wide spread and eliminate 90% of jobs. No, I seriously doubt it. It's going to come in waves. Automation will come in slowly and take away a few positions, and it will build up from there. We don't really know how far it will go though. We have to wait to find that out. IMO, I think it's wishful thining that Yang will solve everyones money woes. The issue is people are terrible with money. They are terrible producing it. They are terrible saving it. And, they are terrible investing it. It's why lottery winners go broke. Financial IQ is in the guitter. Anyway, what's to say that people don't ask for more money. You gave us $1k. Why not $1,500. Or, why not $2k and on. Where does it end?

I still believe in the American system. My sister who is gay, is a computer programmer. She is in a field dominated my men. Guess what her yearly salary is? It's $120k a year and she's up for another raise. Why is she successful? It's because she works and is extremely focused. She produces results and is rewarded for it. People hate when I say that, but it's true. To say that there aren't opportunities anymore is ridiculous. The same people who state this usually have terrible habits. They play video games for hours on end. Are on socail media for most of the day. Watch Netflix for ungodly hours. They typically waste money and their time. Yea, it's a blank statement but there is some truth to it. If we were to look down on their day to day you'd see some pretty bad habits that are holding them back. No one is agaist you. In fact, it's your mindset. It's you against you. Period.

Finally, stop wishing for how you'd like to see life. When you realize that life is hard and it is incredibly UNFAIR. Then you can move forward. But when you constantly blame others, and want handouts then you become the victim. Even if Yang were elected as POTUS it would take a tremoundous amount of support to get this past, which ain't happening in in our current climate. In 20-years? Maybe. Now though? I seriously doubt it. It's on you to step up. Not the politicans. You don't like your job. Move. You want a better life? Invest in yourself. The government isn't going to come and save you. You can either take the red or blue pill. Take the red pill. See the world for how it is, and not for how you'd like it to be.

 
Last edited:
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Universal Basic Income Explained by Kurzgesagt (Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation)

Yes, all the skeptical questions we all have are directly addressed.

Andrew Yang on The Ben Shapiro Show

This is an extremely well conducted on interview. It's an intelligent exchange of ideas and discussions. And if you're super into politics, Ben is supposedly uber right wing. So Andrew's is in a lion's den, especially in today's deeply divided climate.

I'd like to keep this apolitical. It's about technology eating capitalism and how we address it.

Currently we seem to be all about division. I honestly doubt a UBI would ever be implemented in the next 50 years.

#1 - because plenty already receive more than $1,000/month with entitlements. In the video Yang explains that the intention of UBI is to replace the current entitlements.

As is with the deep strife of our country and its politics - I get the feeling it wouldn't be simple to implement just based on people complaining "They don't deserve it, they are rich" or "They don't do anything to deserve it".

I do agree though, it's probably a much better alternative STRICTLY based on cost savings alone.

Currently we have entire departments setup that you have to apply to - be evaluated for - and review candidates to make sure they are "qualified" to receive their benefits. With UBI - all of that is eliminates and it's just a monthly payroll service for everyone, no questions asked.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,592
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The more money becomes available without earning it by providing labor, a service or product - the less valuable it becomes. If everyone can suddenly afford everything the more expensive things become, in other words that $1000 a month of money for nothing will soon afford nothing.

$1000 hamburger, anyone?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,002
136
Universal Basic Income Explained by Kurzgesagt (Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation)

Yes, all the skeptical questions we all have are directly addressed.

Andrew Yang on The Ben Shapiro Show

This is an extremely well conducted on interview. It's an intelligent exchange of ideas and discussions. And if you're super into politics, Ben is supposedly uber right wing. So Andrew's is in a lion's den, especially in today's deeply divided climate.

I'd like to keep this apolitical. It's about technology eating capitalism and how we address it.

Limiting it to every adult is short sighted.

The nest egg of $1,000/mo that builds up over 18 years is more than enough to pay cash for a home. Giving literally everyone an affordable roof over their head, sans monthly payment, would be a HUGE boon that would offset the 25% tax needed to pay for all basic income in the first place.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
11,715
8,174
136
The more money becomes available without earning it by providing labor, a service or product - the less valuable it becomes. If everyone can suddenly afford everything the more expensive things become, in other words that $1000 a month of money for nothing will soon afford nothing.

$1000 hamburger, anyone?

Wrong!

The last time we had inflation was when gas went to $5 a gallon. After that things mostly stayed the same except health insurance premiums, property taxes and rents.

Now that gas is on the rise again thanks to Trump cutting off our supply from Venezuela.. I expect price increases soon because it does cost money to ship things from A to B.

But I'm sure you can find a $1000 hamburger and a $1000 wine in Trump hotels. They've just been marked up from $6 to $1000. :p
 
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dank69

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Oct 6, 2009
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The more money becomes available without earning it by providing labor, a service or product - the less valuable it becomes. If everyone can suddenly afford everything the more expensive things become, in other words that $1000 a month of money for nothing will soon afford nothing.

$1000 hamburger, anyone?
Thank you for your valuable input but we all already know you don't understand economics at all so that's why simplistic soundbites sound good to you.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I love the idea of it, end all housing & assistance programs give everyone a wage to cover that stuff. I’d think our Republican member should would support the idea for that alone. End all government programs and let people spend the money in the free market.

However, I’m also smart enough to know the whole thing falls apart when either:

Someone spends all the money on hookers & blow

or

Someone gambles it all away
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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However, I’m also smart enough to know the whole thing falls apart when either:

Someone spends all the money on hookers & blow
or
Someone gambles it all away

If a person has the funds to survive, but struggles to do so, then they'll need assistance with their mental illness.

Such a person sounds like a candidate for a form of rehab / boot camp style detention where a portion (or all?) of their UBI is used to fund. Until they demonstrate a competency to function independently.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,227
16,687
136
If a person has the funds to survive, but struggles to do so, then they'll need assistance with their mental illness.

Such a person sounds like a candidate for a form of rehab / boot camp style detention where a portion (or all?) of their UBI is used to fund. Until they demonstrate a competency to function independently.

All fine and dandy until the next Anti Welfare Queen Canidate arrives
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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The entire idea is fundamentally unfair. Young people will get a vast sum of money over their lifetimes, us old folks will get very little. I want my $516,000!
 
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1prophet

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Aug 17, 2005
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Wrong!

The last time we had inflation was when gas went to $5 a gallon. After that things mostly stayed the same except health insurance premiums, property taxes and rents.

Now that gas is on the rise again thanks to Trump cutting off our supply from Venezuela.. I expect price increases soon because it does cost money to ship things from A to B.

But I'm sure you can find a $1000 hamburger and a $1000 wine in Trump hotels. They've just been marked up from $6 to $1000. :p

Which will generate more sales for economical gas cars and electric cars, so whatever Trump's reasoning may be for cutting off our supply from Venezuela, it can be looked at as a positive gain for the environment and alternative energy.

As for UBI it is just another feel good trickle down bullshit plan devised by the rich to keep the masses placated, so they don't wake up and realize how their ever decreasing wages through the exploitation of third world countries, their people, and environments for profits is actually detrimental for them because of the resulting lower wages and benefits regardless of the cheap prices they are brainwashed to believe are actually saving them money.

The rich are not going to part with their money so you can chill in your basement smoking a joint playing video games because you now don't have to work to keep from getting evicted or going hungry regardless of the bullshit their bought and paid for politicians tell you for your vote.

As for the scary robot that is going to take all of your jobs,

http://theconversation.com/automation-robots-and-the-end-of-work-myth-89619

No substitute for people

Technology and how it is developed and adopted is not a neutral force but is shaped by politics and economics. While automation may replace some jobs, the technology rarely acts as a substitute for people. Instead, jobs become codified and reduced to a narrow range of de-skilled tasks. Technology is deeply connected to relations of power and tends not to wipe away inequalities in a society, but builds on existing inequalities.
file-20180116-53289-4ronkq.jpg
Staff label and package items in the on-site dispatch hall inside one of Britain’s largest Amazon warehouses in Dunfermline, Fife, in the run up to Black Friday 2017. Jane Barlow/PA Wire/PA Images
The proliferation of digital technologies can be associated with the growth of insecure, intensive and poor quality work as seen in Amazon warehouses and Foxconn (a major manufacturer of Apple products) who use technology to monitor performance and dehumanise the workplace. The net effect is a polarised labour market of low-skill and low-income workers sitting alongside an elite who enjoy more secure jobs (at least for now).

The future of work seems more likely to revolve around cost-containment strategies which limit investment in infrastructure and efficient technologies, opting instead for cheap sweated labour. It is more likely that managers will forego efficiency-generating gains from digital technologies because of a fear of losing control. Remember the promise of homeworking in the electronic cottage?

In order to realise Keynes’ vision of a shorter working week, managers would have to share control and provide an employment regime supporting genuine self-determination. Unfortunately, modern capitalist relations and geopolitical systems of governance are intolerant of such egalitarianism. For these reasons, it’s time to draw a close to the “end of work” hysteria. It is sham.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,231
6,338
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America and the West are on the downswing. SE Asia and Asia in general are on the upswing. If you want a better life you want to move to SE Asia. The cost of living in VN is pretty amazing.I have a buddy who is living on 1000 USD a month. Has a beautiful condo on the beach. A maid that cleans and cooks for him. His quality of life is much much better than it ever was when he lived in America.

I do think automation will take away lower tier jobs, like cashier and truck driver. Do I think it will have be wide spread and eliminate 90% of jobs. No, I seriously doubt it. It's going to come in waves. Automation will come in slowly and take away a few positions, and it will build up from there. We don't really know how far it will go though. We have to wait to find that out. IMO, I think it's wishful thining that Yang will solve everyones money woes. The issue is people are terrible with money. They are terrible producing it. They are terrible saving it. And, they are terrible investing it. It's why lottery winners go broke. Financial IQ is in the guitter. Anyway, what's to say that people don't ask for more money. You gave us $1k. Why not $1,500. Or, why not $2k and on. Where does it end?

I still believe in the American system. My sister who is gay, is a computer programmer. She is in a field dominated my men. Guess what her yearly salary is? It's $120k a year and she's up for another raise. Why is she successful? It's because she works and is extremely focused. She produces results and is rewarded for it. People hate when I say that, but it's true. To say that there aren't opportunities anymore is ridiculous. The same people who state this usually have terrible habits. They play video games for hours on end. Are on socail media for most of the day. Watch Netflix for ungodly hours. They typically waste money and their time. Yea, it's a blank statement but there is some truth to it. If we were to look down on their day to day you'd see some pretty bad habits that are holding them back. No one is agaist you. In fact, it's your mindset. It's you against you. Period.

Finally, stop wishing for how you'd like to see life. When you realize that life is hard and it is incredibly UNFAIR. Then you can move forward. But when you constantly blame others, and want handouts then you become the victim. Even if Yang were elected as POTUS it would take a tremoundous amount of support to get this past, which ain't happening in in our current climate. In 20-years? Maybe. Now though? I seriously doubt it. It's on you to step up. Not the politicans. You don't like your job. Move. You want a better life? Invest in yourself. The government isn't going to come and save you. You can either take the red or blue pill. Take the red pill. See the world for how it is, and not for how you'd like it to be.

Wow, that's just craziness. All I ever wanted to do was to be in the garden in the arms of my beloved. I think you have your priorities upside down when it comes to wasting time.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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www.anyf.ca
With everything moving more towards automation and outsourcing and companies always reducing staff I think UBI is the only way forward. I just don't know where the money would come from, that's the main issue. $1000/mo is not enough to live off of so you'd still need a job so there would be some tax base but if you're just taking it from taxes then why give the money in first place. Ex: it's just taking money and giving it back. There needs to be a source of money entering the system somehow for it to be viable.

They would need to tax corporations at the same rate as people, and on gross income (like people) but that would never happen.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,527
15,406
136
The entire idea is fundamentally unfair. Young people will get a vast sum of money over their lifetimes, us old folks will get very little. I want my $516,000!

That's an easy solution that I thought you'd be familiar with as a Republican. Simply fuck off and die. Its weird how you don't endorse that mentality when you are directly affected.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,527
15,406
136
With everything moving more towards automation and outsourcing and companies always reducing staff I think UBI is the only way forward. I just don't know where the money would come from, that's the main issue. $1000/mo is not enough to live off of so you'd still need a job so there would be some tax base but if you're just taking it from taxes then why give the money in first place. Ex: it's just taking money and giving it back. There needs to be a source of money entering the system somehow for it to be viable.

They would need to tax corporations at the same rate as people, and on gross income (like people) but that would never happen.

I'll help you out with the math (simplified of course):

Revenue - employee costs = profit
Revenue - no employees = more profit

Therefore the answer to your question is more taxes on companies (the law could easily be crafted to tax high earners with withe high automation or, preferably, high earners with few employees).
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,308
355
126
I'd prefer if this was something that was available to those on federal assistance as well rather than on an opt-in basis, but on a pro-rated reduced rate, with a minimum benefit. For example, you might lose some UBI if you are on federal assistance, let's say 0.5 dollars less per dollar of federal benefits (to make up for the fact that when you can choose what to spend the money on it goes further) and then cap the reduction to a minimum benefit, say $250-300/month.

Otherwise this plan sounds way too much like the libertarian wet dream of ending the welfare state.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,395
1,180
126
of course this means we'll need flying cars by then. we had better have flying cars by 2050 or i'm gonna be really disappointed with when i was born.
I mean, of all things we could be excited about, are flying cars really that fascinating? I know you're just kidding. I'd be scared to see how advanced VR is, or how far we traveled across the universe, or discover life underneath Europa.

Apprently this is in Politics now, so... Andrew Yang in the video mentioned Alaska is already doing this everyone for decades ($$ from oil reserve). And they love it.