And you people LIKE linux!?!?!?!

[sswingle]

Ok, so I guess I am learning a little, but I don't get why stuff needs to be so hard.

I start off by installing Yahoo Messenger. It was very easy, I just double clicked the file, and it walked me through it. So I'm thinking,
Linux isn't so bad after all. So then I try to download Firefox, since I hear a lot of people saying good things about it. It comes in a
compressed file. I manage to get it uncompressed, but no amount of running files will get it to do anything. So I read the help,
and it says something about typing ./mozilla-install at the command prompt. So I do that, and it says something like file not found.
I don't see the file listed either, but...thats what the instructions said.

So I give up on Firefox. I'll deal with this Netscape POS for now, even though its not called Netscape, it reeks of the crappy program
I left back with IE 5 came out.

So then I decide to download Java, so I can play my yahoo games. So I go over there, and lo and behold, it says its a self extracting
install. I'm thinking, ok cool, just like the messenger install. So I download it, double click, and what do I get but a huge text file full of code.
So I look over the directions, and it says to put it in the usr/java folder. Well, it doesn't let me create the folder. I give it my root password
so now I can create the folder, but I can't get the install file to copy over there. The paste option is grayed out.
So I'm like, fine, I don't care what folder its in, I just want to run it. So I follow the instructions, and back on the command prompt,
I get the program to run. I scroll through a mile of EULA and say yes I agree. And then it merely says DONE.
Ok, so now the instructions say to run a file from my Mozilla install directory. Good enough, so where is that. I can't find where ANY program
is installed, let alone find Mozilla. So I right click the icon and go to properties. Do you think THAT told me where Mozilla was actually
located? Of course not.

Badmouth windows all you want, at least it doesn't take me an hour to install two programs and in the end have NOTHING installed.

 

[Crusty]

What distro are you using?
Most likely FireFox comes pre-packaged and you just need to use the right tool to get it installed.

But either way, if you have the source downloaded, you would do something similar to this:

cd /dir/where/source/is/located
./configure
make
make install

It might vary a little here and there...but that's what the INSTALL and README file's are for

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Bad things happen when you don't know what you're doing.

and I can install twenty programs in a minute or two, so linux obviously ain't the problem here.

 

[eigen]

I you are using an up to date distro you prolly have some type of package manager that does this for you. Like yum or apt ...Let say you wanted to install java j2re for me I would type yum install j2re and yum would take care of the rest. Including dependncies. In this repsect it far better than windows by far.Can you update every package/program on windows with a single command. I can.

And yes we like linux, I use linux for things other than the average user might and the things I do with it cannot be done as easily or efficiently on windows.

 

[Zelmo3]

Once again it's just a matter of what you're used to. When I moved to Windows XP from 98 there were things that baffled me because they seemed so stupid, such as putting files in a myriad of seemingly useless places rather than just leaving them in "Program Files," "Windows," or their own top-level directory. And again, going from Windows 3.1 to 98 had me confused as to why there should be a "Program Files" directory in the first place.
Using Linux takes some getting used to in much the same way. You just need to get a feel for what each top-level directory's purpose is, what works well in GUI, and what is best done in CLI. Once you get the hang of it, Linux can be very manageable, extraordinarily customizable, and quite capable of doing everything you want, and much more. Many distros even go so far as to make the whole process easier than any other OS experience.
for example, I downloaded SuSE 9.1 as soon as it was available on their FTP server and put it on my main rig and laptop. It installed drivers for all of my hardware (the only one that needed an update was the video driver to get 3D, which can't legally be included in distributions), and let me choose from oodles of software titles to install. Once it was done I had a fully functional system that needed no more tweaking than to change the appearance as I liked.
When I later put Windows XP on, I found that once the OS was installed I still had to install motherboard drivers to get my ethernet working, get Service Pack 1 to even be able to use USB, fetch various other updates for security and functionality, then install drivers for the rest of my hardware and finally put on some software so I would have something to use. Once that was all done I could tweak the look and feel how I liked it, which by that time I had forgotten how to do some of it and it took a bit of digging and Googling to get it all right.

So again, it's mostly a matter of what you're used to. Once you get used to Linux it can be a Very Good Thing.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
Ok, so I guess I am learning a little, but I don't get why stuff needs to be so hard.

I start off by installing Yahoo Messenger. It was very easy, I just double clicked the file, and it walked me through it. So I'm thinking,
Linux isn't so bad after all. So then I try to download Firefox, since I hear a lot of people saying good things about it. It comes in a
compressed file. I manage to get it uncompressed, but no amount of running files will get it to do anything. So I read the help,
and it says something about typing ./mozilla-install at the command prompt. So I do that, and it says something like file not found.
I don't see the file listed either, but...thats what the instructions said.

So I give up on Firefox. I'll deal with this Netscape POS for now, even though its not called Netscape, it reeks of the crappy program
I left back with IE 5 came out.

So then I decide to download Java, so I can play my yahoo games. So I go over there, and lo and behold, it says its a self extracting
install. I'm thinking, ok cool, just like the messenger install. So I download it, double click, and what do I get but a huge text file full of code.
So I look over the directions, and it says to put it in the usr/java folder. Well, it doesn't let me create the folder. I give it my root password
so now I can create the folder, but I can't get the install file to copy over there. The paste option is grayed out.
So I'm like, fine, I don't care what folder its in, I just want to run it. So I follow the instructions, and back on the command prompt,
I get the program to run. I scroll through a mile of EULA and say yes I agree. And then it merely says DONE.
Ok, so now the instructions say to run a file from my Mozilla install directory. Good enough, so where is that. I can't find where ANY program
is installed, let alone find Mozilla. So I right click the icon and go to properties. Do you think THAT told me where Mozilla was actually
located? Of course not.

Badmouth windows all you want, at least it doesn't take me an hour to install two programs and in the end have NOTHING installed.

You know, just because you're not able to figure out how to install the program in your distro doesn't mean it's hard at all to do so, if you are completely new to Linux (which you obviously are) then i assume you have picked a distro that is easy to get up and running like Mandrake or Fedora? Ok, now read the instructions for package management in your distro, USE the package manager for your system to install mozilla-firefox and JAVA.

Was that hard?

I just updated my entire system using one command (pacman -Syu), how do you do that in windows, you can't, can you, you need to browse around for the latest versions of all of your programs and install updates for them and then run windows update and/or office update just to update your system.

 

[Cogman]

I said it once, ill say it again, LFS and BLFS really helped me understand how linux works. Im a hands on guy so building my own OS really help. Now the disadvantage is you cant use tools like RPM and such, But I hear that LFS is implementing that into their tutorial So maybe it wont be so bad .

 

[sswingle]

I am using Redhat 8. I wanted something similiar to what they have at work, which is redhat 7.2

I am currently downloading Suse 9.1, hopefully it will be more user friendly.

 

[Crusty]

Haha, Redhat is probably the most user-friendly distro out there for new users.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
I am using Redhat 8. I wanted something similiar to what they have at work, which is redhat 7.2

I am currently downloading Suse 9.1, hopefully it will be more user friendly.

Redhats package manager is called RPM, you can get both Mozilla-FireFox and JAVA as RPM's.

Suses package manager is called YAST! and you will have the same problems installing your programs if you don't use Suses package manager as you had with Redhat without using RPM.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
Ok, so I guess I am learning a little, but I don't get why stuff needs to be so hard.

I start off by installing Yahoo Messenger. It was very easy, I just double clicked the file, and it walked me through it. So I'm thinking,
Linux isn't so bad after all. So then I try to download Firefox, since I hear a lot of people saying good things about it. It comes in a
compressed file. I manage to get it uncompressed, but no amount of running files will get it to do anything. So I read the help,
and it says something about typing ./mozilla-install at the command prompt. So I do that, and it says something like file not found.
I don't see the file listed either, but...thats what the instructions said.

So I give up on Firefox. I'll deal with this Netscape POS for now, even though its not called Netscape, it reeks of the crappy program
I left back with IE 5 came out.

So then I decide to download Java, so I can play my yahoo games. So I go over there, and lo and behold, it says its a self extracting
install. I'm thinking, ok cool, just like the messenger install. So I download it, double click, and what do I get but a huge text file full of code.
So I look over the directions, and it says to put it in the usr/java folder. Well, it doesn't let me create the folder. I give it my root password
so now I can create the folder, but I can't get the install file to copy over there. The paste option is grayed out.
So I'm like, fine, I don't care what folder its in, I just want to run it. So I follow the instructions, and back on the command prompt,
I get the program to run. I scroll through a mile of EULA and say yes I agree. And then it merely says DONE.
Ok, so now the instructions say to run a file from my Mozilla install directory. Good enough, so where is that. I can't find where ANY program
is installed, let alone find Mozilla. So I right click the icon and go to properties. Do you think THAT told me where Mozilla was actually
located? Of course not.

Badmouth windows all you want, at least it doesn't take me an hour to install two programs and in the end have NOTHING installed.

Betcha would have a harder time with Windows if this the first time you've ever seen it.

You were going about the installs in a completely backward way. You trying to treat it like windows, which it isn't. So of course your going to have a hard time.

 

[Nothinman]

I am using Redhat 8. I wanted something similiar to what they have at work, which is redhat 7.2

Then get Fedora, it's the renamed version of RedHat's consumer edition.

 

[drag]

Redhat 7.0
Redhat 7.2
Redhat 7.3
Redhat 8.0
Redhat 9.0
Fedora Core1
Fedora Core 2


It's been a long long time since Redhat 8.0 came out. Nobody should be installing it nowadays.

As far as Suse 9.1 it's as good or better then Fedora, but the difference for Fedora is that you have Yum!!

Yum = with a little setup installing software is easy as pie.

yum install firefox

That is all you would have to type to get it installed. And when you need to update your system to keep it secure this is what you do:

yum update

Easier then Microsoft.

 

[silverpig]

Just because you don't know, doesn't mean it's hard.

A person growing up on gentoo with their

emerge firefox

to install firefox and

emerge -c firefox

to uninstall firefox would have the same problems going over to windows xp. No portage in xp? WTF? How am I supposed to do things? Why do I have to download firefox first to install it? Why double click? Why is it asking me all of these questions? And to uninstall, why do I have to go start/control panel/add-remove software/ ? Why not just issue one command?

It's all relative.

 

[Booty]

To echo what everyone else is saying... you grew up around Windows, so that's what you're used to... that's what seems easy to you.

In reality, once a Linux machine is setup, it's much easier (in my opinion) to maintain.

I grew up on Windows too, and I didn't really care for Linux the first time I took a run at it... but about 6 months later, I tried again, read some documentation, and once I got the basic concepts of what it was all about, I was hooked. I'm still far from mastering it (only really been using it a year), but I'm getting there. It's just a matter of what approach you take.

 

[sswingle]

Ok, I'll download Fedora next

And another question, how do I switch between GNOME and KDE? I think I like GNOME better, which loaded automatically with Redhat, but in Suse KDE loads.

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
Ok, I'll download Fedora next

And another question, how do I switch between GNOME and KDE? I think I like GNOME better, which loaded automatically with Redhat, but in Suse KDE loads.

In the display manager (the GUI that pops up after bootup where you enter your username and password), there's a "Session" option somewhere. Click on that and you can choose between Gnome and KDE.

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: Cogman
I said it once, ill say it again, LFS and BLFS really helped me understand how linux works. Im a hands on guy so building my own OS really help. Now the disadvantage is you cant use tools like RPM and such, But I hear that LFS is implementing that into their tutorial So maybe it wont be so bad .

Yes, you can do it. Read Beyond LFS I remember that they have a section for you to put "apt-get" or the rpm based package managers in your LFS distro

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
So I do that, and it says something like file not found.

Yes, lack of attention to detail will generally cause you headaches. I suspect you just aren't familiar with the commandline environment. I do agree that linux is FAR from ready for the "average" desktop.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
Ok, I'll download Fedora next

And another question, how do I switch between GNOME and KDE? I think I like GNOME better, which loaded automatically with Redhat, but in Suse KDE loads.

Well if you want to do Fedora remember this wiki here about yum

It'll help you set up Yum to use a mirror. Yum is supported out of the box in Core2, and possibly core one.

Even though Fedora has easy to use Yum to install software, the official selection is somewhat limited (only 3 CD's of stuff )

If there is a bunch of stuff you want that's not avaible you can always add a 3rd party repository to the mix. Since these are a independant source your more likely to run into annoying problems. But it works for me. check out Dag if that needs arises..

Apt-get was originally made by Debian (which has the best package selection out there. Something like 10,000+ programs and other packages are aviable (also in other platforms such as PowerPC (Apple), Alpha, Sparc, and soon AMD-64.)). And it was ported to run using RPMs by (I think) connectiva.

That's what I used for Redhat before Yum was made avaible (originally made by Yellow dog Linux).

Apt-get and various repositories are avaible for Mandrake and Suse, too. So don't think that you HAVE to switch just to use advanced package program like Yum. But it's just that in terms of packaging software you go Debian, Gentoo, Fedora, Suse, Mandrake. Were Debian is best, and Mandrake is worst.

Personally I haven't had very good luck with Suse and Apt, but times change and others seem to like it. You can use Apt with Fedora, too. Most repositories support both Yum and Apt, and Apt is aviable from Official Fedora channels, it's just not installed by default.

Also as a newbie it's best by far to do the "Install EVERYTHING' option. It's too easy to leave something out.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
I do agree that linux is FAR from ready for the "average" desktop.

Check out Novell/SuSE 9.1. The easiest installation I have ever seen. Fully plug and play, comes with an excellent desktop - the KDE GUI and OpenOffice and a lot of useful programs. (But not Firefox.) GUI configuration tools. I's call it Ready For Prime Time.

Some distributions have a pretty severe learning curve. I have some experience with Debian, which many consider the best, but I think it is the hardest of all that I have used (Red Hat, Mandrake, Caldera, Knoppix).

 

[civad]

originally posted by :ScottSwingleComputers
And you people LIKE linux!?!?!?!

And you actually POSTED about this?

RTFM, mate

 

[jhu]

linux (and other unixes) are so much more useful when things go wrong, assuming you know what you're doing. best of all, most of the tools are free. e.g. my gf's laptop harddrive somehow corrupted itself. fortunately, after running some forensic tools, it was only the mbr that was corrupted. then i just restored the mbr with said tools and the latop was just as it was before.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: CTho9305
I do agree that linux is FAR from ready for the "average" desktop.

Check out Novell/SuSE 9.1. The easiest installation I have ever seen. Fully plug and play, comes with an excellent desktop - the KDE GUI and OpenOffice and a lot of useful programs. (But not Firefox.) GUI configuration tools. I's call it Ready For Prime Time.

Some distributions have a pretty severe learning curve. I have some experience with Debian, which many consider the best, but I think it is the hardest of all that I have used (Red Hat, Mandrake, Caldera, Knoppix).

The problem I have is that some tools are just so poorly designed from a usability perspective. I've played with lots of distros, and as a power user, I think it's a great OS, but I wouldn't recommend it to the majority of people I know.

edit: An example of what's wrong with open-source software: The Gimp. It is one of the best examples of awful UI design I can think of, yet fanatics try to set it as a competitor to photoshop. Then there's the problem with lack of consistency - I probably can't even count the number of variations of an open/save dialog I've seen in OSS apps. Another complaint is the clipboard system of X... why can't I copy/paste from a terminal to mozilla? Because X has THREE different clipboards: primary, secondary, and clipboard. Not all apps use the same one.

edit2: Ok, so I'm not complaining about linux as a kernel, I'm complaining about the environments usually run on linux.

 

[SinNisTeR]

you got pwned by linux you n00b...