And Time Person of The Year is...Ben Bernanke!

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
What is the problem with Bernanke as the person of the year? It's not some sort of award or recognition of something great that someone did, it's just saying this person had a huge impact on the year and was in the news a lot.

Like him or not, Bernanke has had a huge impact on the US and world economy, and with the collapse/bailout etc etc, he's been all over the place. We'll see how all this mess turns out, but I don't have an issue with him as the person of the year.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
What is the problem with Bernanke as the person of the year? It's not some sort of award or recognition of something great that someone did, it's just saying this person had a huge impact on the year and was in the news a lot.

Like him or not, Bernanke has had a huge impact on the US and world economy, and with the collapse/bailout etc etc, he's been all over the place. We'll see how all this mess turns out, but I don't have an issue with him as the person of the year.
Ah fvck it, I'm doing what others do every year when this comes out. You are right, I am shamed ;)
 

whylaff

Senior member
Oct 31, 2007
200
0
0
I like the subtitle of this article. But, If Bernanke is going to be our overlord, he should be driving a more fitting vehicle. I do not think of an overlord when I see a Ford Focus. And what kind of overlord shares his car with his wife? Speaking of which, as overlord, why does he only have one wife?
 

wiretap

Senior member
Sep 28, 2006
642
0
71
Engineering the collapse of economies seems to be the qualifier for winning.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I'd have preferred a symbol for the whole problem: Goldman Sachs.

You know, in a way, Craig, the market that you hate so much tried to get rid of Goldman Sachs, but the big government you love so much intervened and kept them around.

Is it irony? :hmm: Nope, not at all.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
You know, in a way, Craig, the market that you hate so much tried to get rid of Goldman Sachs, but the big government you love so much intervened and kept them around.

Is it irony? :hmm: Nope, not at all.

You're quite wrong. I won't try to list many ways, but one for a start is your straw man that I'm against 'the market' rather than being against abuses within the market.

I'm against the excessive concentration of wealth that leads to the excessive concentration of power that prevents fairness, what you seem to call 'the market', and allows for corruption in or out of government.

You are so fixated on government you don't understand that 'government' is irrelevant to the issue - that absent our nice democratic government, there would be worse oppression by another name.

It's ridiculous what you say - I criticize the corruption of Goildman Sachs and you try to say that I'm not actually criticizing Goldman Sachs but something else.

There is no 'market' in a sense you won't understand, I suspect. That's an imaginary construct for ideology that is sometimes useful and sometimes not. Unlike 'the market', Goldman Sachs is a real entity doing real things, including abusing power, which it's able to do with no government or bad government alike. The issue is with that real entity, not with the 'market' ephemeral idea.

'The market' exists within man-mande rules that can be progressive or not, allow too big to fail or not. Both before and after the creation of the SEC under Joe Kennedy's leadership, 'the market' existed- but it acted very differently because of the man made rules. If you have some ivory tower notion of no rules, then a many coming to you with a gun and taking your possessions is 'the market' too.

You are having a hard time dealing with a pretty straightforward issue of the behavior of Goldman Sachs without bring up ideological gibberish.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
You're quite wrong. I won't try to list many ways, but one for a start is your straw man that I'm against 'the market' rather than being against abuses within the market.

I'm against the excessive concentration of wealth that leads to the excessive concentration of power that prevents fairness, what you seem to call 'the market', and allows for corruption in or out of government.

You are so fixated on government you don't understand that 'government' is irrelevant to the issue - that absent our nice democratic government, there would be worse oppression by another name.

It's ridiculous what you say - I criticize the corruption of Goildman Sachs and you try to say that I'm not actually criticizing Goldman Sachs but something else.

There is no 'market' in a sense you won't understand, I suspect. That's an imaginary construct for ideology that is sometimes useful and sometimes not. Unlike 'the market', Goldman Sachs is a real entity doing real things, including abusing power, which it's able to do with no government or bad government alike. The issue is with that real entity, not with the 'market' ephemeral idea.

'The market' exists within man-mande rules that can be progressive or not, allow too big to fail or not. Both before and after the creation of the SEC under Joe Kennedy's leadership, 'the market' existed- but it acted very differently because of the man made rules. If you have some ivory tower notion of no rules, then a many coming to you with a gun and taking your possessions is 'the market' too.

You are having a hard time dealing with a pretty straightforward issue of the behavior of Goldman Sachs without bring up ideological gibberish.


Even if one was to agree with you, you make a case against the government having more control over entities like GS at the same time. What you call excessive wealth already exists at GS as well as, in my opinion at least, the corruption in the government (which you and I blame on different things, but lets set that aside for the moment). So if GS already has the money, power and corrupted officials how would any real reform be passed? GS would simply use their wealth and power to ensure that while the reform might look and sound good it wouldn't fix anything that you listed. You are a smart man so I assume you don't expect a corrupted government to vote against their personal interests do you?

For proof I offer the latest financial reform bill that was passed by the house. Funny how the derivatives they talk about "regulating" have so many loopholes that it likely won't apply to most banks (end user exemption, foreign exchange exemption, balance sheet risk exemption, etc). Make no mistake, the people who wrote this bill are not stupid and they know full well the result of language in the legislation. Yet in front of the cameras they slap each other on the back and talk about how historic the vote was and how it will prevent the nonsense from the last few years from ever happening again. Most people don't understand the first thing about the bill or what it is trying (not) to regulate so if you like the people doing the backslapping you will probably approve of the bill if you don't you won't.

I bet most D's here approve of it and I bet most R's don't. This obviously isn't the "fix" you had in mind, so how is it reasonably accomplished?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Great, he joins the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Obama, and Ayatollah Khomeini.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,673
2,425
126
Sarah Palin was the worst pick. And L. Ron Hubbard.

Sarah was a runner-up (just like in the beauty contests) and I couldn't find anything about L. Ron Hubbard ever winning this, and don't remember that.

To me the absolute worst, most pandering Time Person of the Year was 2006 when they put a mirror on the cover and said "you were the person of the year."

Picking Bernanke makes absolute sense to me for the reasons PokerGuy said.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Sarah was a runner-up (just like in the beauty contests) and I couldn't find anything about L. Ron Hubbard ever winning this, and don't remember that.

Ack, my sarcasm was not strong enough - I didn't know Palin was a finalist, I gave them more credit.

Picking Bernanke makes absolute sense to me for the reasons PokerGuy said.

As I commented above, it makes some sense but I'd prefer Goldman Sachs as much more useful.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Even if one was to agree with you, you make a case against the government having more control over entities like GS at the same time. What you call excessive wealth already exists at GS as well as, in my opinion at least, the corruption in the government (which you and I blame on different things, but lets set that aside for the moment). So if GS already has the money, power and corrupted officials how would any real reform be passed? GS would simply use their wealth and power to ensure that while the reform might look and sound good it wouldn't fix anything that you listed. You are a smart man so I assume you don't expect a corrupted government to vote against their personal interests do you?

For proof I offer the latest financial reform bill that was passed by the house. Funny how the derivatives they talk about "regulating" have so many loopholes that it likely won't apply to most banks (end user exemption, foreign exchange exemption, balance sheet risk exemption, etc). Make no mistake, the people who wrote this bill are not stupid and they know full well the result of language in the legislation. Yet in front of the cameras they slap each other on the back and talk about how historic the vote was and how it will prevent the nonsense from the last few years from ever happening again. Most people don't understand the first thing about the bill or what it is trying (not) to regulate so if you like the people doing the backslapping you will probably approve of the bill if you don't you won't.

I bet most D's here approve of it and I bet most R's don't. This obviously isn't the "fix" you had in mind, so how is it reasonably accomplished?

There's a question you need to decide when faced with a corrupted democracy: are you better off with a more radical solution, throwing out the baby and the bathwater, or not?

First, when I ask that, it's not rhetorical as if there's only one answer. You can ask the question, even if practically there's not a thing you can do about it, and there isn't.

Second, when I say 'not' above, I mean bother whether the status quo is better than the alternative, or whether it's worth 'fixing' the problems, both of which are not getting rid of the system.

When you refer to GS having the power and money, you are not considering variables - the American people could force great changes tomorrow if they could get their act together and push them.

That theoretical power is derived from the vote; the sad fact is there's a long list of why it's little exercised.

Rather than a length discussion of my point, I'll just refer you to the many times in history when the 'fat cats' lost - even if they're too few. It happens (when there's a democracy). GS it too powerful, but can be beat.

You're absolutely right on the reform bill. From Matt Tiabbii's radio comments yesterday: It was written up as a good reform bill (something that wouldn't have happened with a Republican Congress IMO) - but Geitner removed key provisions that pretty much gutted it. But that's just another symptom of the problem we're discussing.

That's why I think you are going a bit too far in suggesting all Congress is corrupt and this was written from the start as a phony bill - there is a real battle and cynicism weakens the public side.

I agree about the public not being informed and concerned enough tabout this and that allowing the bill to get gutted.

On your last point, about D support and R opposition, I don't see the point you are making much there - yes, I support the inadequate but still positive bill, and many R's likelly oppose it. I'm not sure that has much relevance to the other issue we're discussing. I don't support it because of the D, I support it because it's better than not having it. I would agree too many dems are likely to support it because it's calle dthe reform bill, and not appreciate the issue of it being gutted.