And the Bush debacle rumbles on.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/opinion/10thur4.html
A Disgraceful Signal at Amtrak
The sudden firing by the Amtrak board of David Gunn, the best president in years of the nation's only passenger railroad, was a body blow to anybody who cares about long-range passenger trains.

Mr. Gunn has done a masterly job in the last three years of holding down costs without dismantling the railroad. That, apparently, was his problem. Mr. Gunn was trying to save Amtrak, but the Bush administration wants to privatize it, bit by bit.

The battle between Mr. Gunn and Amtrak board members - all of them appointed by President Bush - intensified in recent weeks when the board took steps to break off the more profitable Northeast Corridor, putting it into its own division and sharing its control and costs with the states. Senator Frank Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, called it a "fire sale" intended to break up the nation's railroad system.

So last week Senator Lautenberg and Senator Trent Lott, Republican of Mississippi, managed to get a 93-to-6 vote to authorize $11.6 billion for passenger rail service in the next six years - as close to an all-out endorsement of Amtrak as you can get.

But while senators were trying to help Amtrak move forward, its board took a step backward. It complained yesterday that Mr. Gunn - who has greatly increased ridership, improved management and upgraded equipment - was moving too slowly. After his firing, Mr. Gunn said, "Obviously what their goal is, and it's been their goal from the beginning, is to liquidate the company."

For Amtrak's 25 million passengers, this should be a call to arms. Amtrak should be a public transportation trust. It will never be self-sufficient, nor show a conventional profit, any more than the airline industry can fly without federal help. The Bush administration long ago threatened to disassemble Amtrak. Yesterday it began at the executive suite.

Seems if you are good at what you do you are fired by this administration that demands failure.

 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
Originally posted by: techs

Seems if you are good at what you do you are fired by this administration that demands failure.

The sad fact is the reverse of that is true too.
 

ShadesOfGrey

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2005
1,523
0
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"Seems if you are good at what you do you are fired by this administration that demands failure." Nice troll.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
"Seems if you are good at what you do you are fired by this administration that demands failure." Nice troll.
troll is too nice of a word. :confused:

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I don't know, our passenger railroads are in pretty bad shape at the moment. I think some serious changes would be great, privatization might actually help.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
I didn't know Halburton wanted it's own railroad.

/now that's a troll
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
So requiring 3.5 Billion a year in taxpayers money to remain afloat is doing a masterful job?

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Seriously, who would even bid on Amtrak if it were privitized? The reason Amtrak exists is because private railroad companies wanted to get out of the passenger rail business because they couldn't compete with cars and air travel. Private companies don't want to be in the profitless passenger rail service.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
at this point I don't think we can trust Bush to hire anybody that is even remotely competent. It's a crapshoot as to who he's going to hire.
 

PELarson

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2001
2,289
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
So requiring 3.5 Billion a year in taxpayers money to remain afloat is doing a masterful job?


Funny thing is that we use 10x that to keep the Airline industry afloat each year.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: Genx87
So requiring 3.5 Billion a year in taxpayers money to remain afloat is doing a masterful job?


Funny thing is that we use 10x that to keep the Airline industry afloat each year.

You think the big airlines are being run masterfully?

 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
"Seems if you are good at what you do you are fired by this administration that demands failure." Nice troll.
troll is too nice of a word. :confused:

You and your buddy ShadesOfGrey (are you British?) have anything to add of substance? As usual, that'd be a resounding NO!
My .02 on this, Amtrak has been on life support for years. I think the gov should wash its hands of it.
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
Amtrak has never, ever, not even once, shown a quarterly profit. It does not matter who is in charge, Amtrak is broken and should be liquidated and the land sold to private developers. The land is worth billions, the company is worth nothing.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Amtrak is a load of sh1t. Let's try and get someone running it who can make the company break even at the least.

Most Amtrak trains I've taken are pretty much packed, if they can't make money then, they have problems.

Same thing with airlines. Both of them should drastically increase their ticket pricing.
 

jimkyser

Senior member
Nov 13, 2004
547
0
0
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Amtrak has never, ever, not even once, shown a quarterly profit. It does not matter who is in charge, Amtrak is broken and should be liquidated and the land sold to private developers. The land is worth billions, the company is worth nothing.

Amtrak owns little if any actual land. The rails in the NE corridor, even the electrified ones that Amtrak uses, belong to Norfolk Soutern. In the west they have trackage rights over the rails of UP and BNSF, but they don't own the tracks.

As was noted above, privatization of Amtrak will not work. The whole reason it exists is that the big railroads didn't want to provide passenger service anymore and the gov't tokk it over so it wouldn't dissapear. Those railroads never made any money on passenger service but instead used it as an advertising vehicle. Once the costs outstipped the benefits, they were ready to dump it.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
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First off if the railroads got the same amount of public money the airlines and the hiways did we could travel in our own personal railroad cars for 6 bucks from New York to Washington.
Second off how does 11.5 billion over 6 years come to 3.5 billion a year?
Third off, isn't the train the most fuel efficient form of transportation?
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
Thank you JK. I was not aware that Amtrak didn't own all that land. I especially thought the NE corridor would be very valuable.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
And if the land were sold then it would be impossible to re-establish railroad right of ways without huge eminent domain proceedings.
And there are predictions that with the coming energy crunch the railroads will be essential to our nations competiveness.
Not to mention no one can even cite one instance of private railroads "competing' over the same track. I guess they mean privatize like the cable companies. That surely has brought down prices, hasn't it (NOT)?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Amtrak board members - all of them appointed by President Bush

how are the board of directors of a private company appointed by the President of the United States???

EDIT***

nevermind i found my answer, learned something new.

and the members of Amtrak's board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I just this year took the amtrak from SF to NYC on a three day journey, The tracks are pitiful and very bumpy, the cars are in disrepair the employees morale is sh1t and we had to pull over for trains of logs as they had higher priority.

A disgrace that the California Zephyr line that helped found this country is a rotted shadow of what was once the classiest way to travel, and airline travel is basiclly a greyhound ride that is just faster and less scenic.

Regardless we got some great photos through the greasy cracked windows of the lounge/observation cars as we watched the mountains and praries of this country pass by on cracked and torn couches.

Still a unforgettable journey with breathtaking scenery and good company of diehard rail fans and sightseers from across the world.

(Dont even get me into the comments I was hearing from fellow world travellers about the state of our rail system compared to their home countrys rail networks)
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Oh yeah, I wonder what the freight railway companies will do when the money they get from Amtrak (the hidden federal subsidy)will be gone?
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
0
0
'Regardless we got some great photos through the greasy cracked windows of the lounge/observation cars as we watched the mountains and praries of this country pass by on cracked and torn couches."

Excellent SR. LOL. Sounds like a tour bochure gone bad.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: tommywishbone
'Regardless we got some great photos through the greasy cracked windows of the lounge/observation cars as we watched the mountains and praries of this country pass by on cracked and torn couches."

Excellent SR. LOL. Sounds like a tour bochure gone bad.



It was a wild trip and will never forget it even for all its bumps, I wish I had the time to tell you all the stories this old conductor told us late at night about the endless trips he has made on the Zephyr. (some were scary too!) Do yourself a favor if you ever get a chance and do it sometime yourself, while you still can :(

It cost us a grand total of 170$ each round trip on amtrak SF to NYC and worth every penny once you get way high into the rockies.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
troll is too nice of a word. :confused:

QFT. This is the kind of nonsense that will guarantee Republican victory in '06 and '08.

The libbies are so desperate they'll grasp at any straw they can find.

OP, I'd like for you to do a little research on Amtrak and tell me, in all its years of operation, has it ever turned a profit? And are we to believe all Amtrak's troubles began with W?

 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,651
3,531
136
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: moshquerade
troll is too nice of a word. :confused:

QFT. This is the kind of nonsense that will guarantee Republican victory in '06 and '08.

The libbies are so desperate they'll grasp at any straw they can find.

OP, I'd like for you to do a little research on Amtrak and tell me, in all its years of operation, has it ever turned a profit? And are we to believe all Amtrak's troubles began with W?

Thankfully the Senate disagrees with your assertion that we don't need a diverse national transportation system.