And guess what type of Leadership Egypt elects:

[airdata]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/w...gypt-shows-mandate-for-islamists.html?_r=1&hp



So much for the Egyptian Arab Spring. Now instead of a relatively secular dictator we have to deal with a democratically elected Islamist government.

Would you rather have a guy like Hamid Karzai in Aghanistan who we planted there, who has said he would side w\ pakistan in a conflict against the US?

I guess we have to put people in power so that we have enemies for the military industrial complex to go after in the future.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Would you rather have a guy like Hamid Karzai in Aghanistan who we planted there, who has said he would side w\ pakistan in a conflict against the US?

I guess we have to put people in power so that we have enemies for the military industrial complex to go after in the future.

This assumes that the Afghans would in mass support a pro-US and pro-Western values leader who would not side with the Taliban, Pakistan, hardcore Islamic rule, etc over the "infidels".

 

[irishScott]

Would you rather have a guy like Hamid Karzai in Aghanistan who we planted there, who has said he would side w\ pakistan in a conflict against the US?

I guess we have to put people in power so that we have enemies for the military industrial complex to go after in the future.

So because I'm dismayed at the direction Egypt's taken I'm a ultra-interventionalist Neocon?

I would have rathered the Egyptian people not give the "let the children burn if they're not properly dressed" and "stone rape victims for adultery" party such a broad showing. Such mentalities need to die, and the sooner they die the better. Seems Egypt is going to continue to host the remnants of the dark ages for some time to come.

 

[soulcougher73]

I was more hopeful than happy. Unfortunately my hopes were misplaced.

"Hope and Change"..its ok..we had none either

 

[CPA]

Yeah, I wasn't sure why people on these forums were so happy about Mubarak being ousted from Egypt.

This. But most were probably happy because that's what the media told them they should feel - "Arab Spring! Arab Spring!, ooooo, fuzzy feelings"

 

[Braznor]

Bah, I had predicted this all before this happened.

What did you all expect anyway?

 

[QuantumPion]

I predict that within 5 years Egypt will declare war on Israel, ending 30 years of peace. Israel will subsequently steamroll them and take back the Sinai. Then Egyptians will whine and moan about their stolen land for decades.

 

[irishScott]

I predict that within 5 years Egypt will declare war on Israel, ending 30 years of peace. Israel will subsequently steamroll them and take back the Sinai. Then Egyptians will whine and moan about their stolen land for decades.

And Lemon Law will wail about how the Israeli Nazis' ultimate goal is to capture the Pyramids of Tanis and raid the Ark of the Covenant so they can finally kill off the Palestinians with their evil Nazi dildos of death.

 

[CPA]

I predict that within 5 years Egypt will declare war on Israel, ending 30 years of peace. Israel will subsequently steamroll them and take back the Sinai. Then Egyptians will whine and moan about their stolen land for decades.

You forgot step 3: Push their own citizens that they do not want into that new Israeli land and then claim it belongs to them.

 

[Kadarin]

Yeah, I suspect that Egypt will suffer a tyranny of the majority, where ultraconservative Islam will plunge the country into a cultural abyss from which it won't recover. Islam does not in any way advance the human condition.

 

[woolfe9999]

But the Arab nations did change to bring on the Arab Spring - they became too hardline conservative Islamic to tolerate their secular dictators.

Still, even if their choices are anathema to me, they have the right to make those choices.

What is this "they have the right to makes these choices" straw mannery? I looked up thread and I don't see anyone arguing differently. This doesn't mean we aren't entitled to be critical of those choices, to observe that these kinds of regimes are not in best interest of the US or the rest of the world, or to hope that they make better choices in the future. It's not as if nations each exist in their own vacuum. Their choices have consequences outside their nation. But acknowledging that doesn't alter the fact that they have the right to determine their own form of government. "I am disappointed with your decision" /= "you have no right to make that decision."

Seriously, I don't think anyone here needs a lecture on the concept of majority rule.

- wolf

 

[Lemon law]

I am somewhat surprised but not totally disappointing that the Muslim brotherhood and ultra conservatives dominated the recent Egyptian legislative elections. But that is just the first set of the Egyptian legislative branch. With future coming elections to determine the Egyptian executive poobah who will tend to set the agenda.

The most important thing to realize is that Mubarak and his legacy of corruption that totally looted the Egyptian economy for three decades is not only gone, but he alienated everyone.

The point to make, is that the new set Egyptian legislators will have to go through a giant learning curve to become as corrupt and totally dominating as Mubarak. And short of completing that learning curve, they will be up for reelection and still facing new young but now more maturer set of a reformers still pushing for a more modern Egypt free from corruption.

Its the second set of Egyptian legislators that will be more telling, because if the first set that tend to be conservative Islamists don't deliver the economic bacon for the Egyptian people, they may not win reelection.

 

[Jhhnn]

A host of progressive & moderate elements boycotted the elections, leading to the results we see.

They have their reasons, but I'm not sure it was a good idea.

Nice gaggle of chest thumping Israeli fanboi rants, too. The people who shaped your opinions are proud of their work, I'm sure.

 

[Infohawk]

You can't discount the people's role in their own fate. I do believe many Americans would be dead rather than live in a dictatorship. The same is not true for Egyptians or Chinese. In many ways they have the government they want. The Egyptian revolution was mostly about economics, not freedom or love of liberal democracy. They're not asking for real freedom.

 

[woolfe9999]

You can't discount the people's role in their own fate. I do believe many Americans would be dead rather than live in a dictatorship. The same is not true for Egyptians or Chinese. In many ways they have the government they want. The Egyptian revolution was mostly about economics, not freedom or love of liberal democracy. They're not asking for real freedom.

Yup, another reason why neo-conservatism was a failed foreign policy. It was premised on the notion that people everywhere want democracy when clearly they do not.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's a little early to announce the death of Democracy in Egypt, don't you think?

 

[Craig234]

A host of progressive & moderate elements boycotted the elections, leading to the results we see.

They have their reasons, but I'm not sure it was a good idea.

Nice gaggle of chest thumping Israeli fanboi rants, too. The people who shaped your opinions are proud of their work, I'm sure.

I haven't followed the issue about why they did that.

It seems like a bad idea to me generally, except in one case, when they are claiming the elections are so falsified that not voting makes their point rather than be part of it.

We have a lot of scummy anti-democracy people posting implicitly endorsing a dictator.

 

[bfdd]

lets stop demonizing them before they do anything. if, and a big if, they ever acted against us we would have reason to act. now though they are a new democracy, just like we were once, with maybe radical beliefs relative to others, just like we were once, it is our chance to shine and support those who sought a form of democracy(one of the key steps towards liberty).

 

[the DRIZZLE]

we can either be assholes about it or we can support the democracy. we don't have to agree with their policies and such, but that doesn't mean we can't work together and lead a good example. it sucks that this is the route they took, it's not one i would have preferred, but it's not my nation and i wasn't voting.

I value individual human rights over democracy. IMO a less democratic government with more individual freedom is far superior to Islamist regime with popular support.

American schools put way too much emphasis the importance of democracy and not enough on liberty.

 

[gingermeggs]

I was more hopeful than happy. Unfortunately my hopes were misplaced.

If your so passionate about it maybe you should live there and be the spearhead of the new modern Egyptian democracy....
So hows YOUR economy going?
Is it time to focus on your own backyard and whats not right with your banksters and YOUR democracy????????????
Time for Irish jokes I guess, crime is easy with so many idiots to fool with!

 

[gingermeggs]

I haven't followed the issue about why they did that.

It seems like a bad idea to me generally, except in one case, when they are claiming the elections are so falsified that not voting makes their point rather than be part of it.

We have a lot of scummy anti-democracy people posting implicitly endorsing a dictator.

Looks like democracy has belly flopped onto concrete everywhere....maybe marx had it right so many years ago...........monkeys will vote for what???? arnie???? bama??? osama????
What you need is the new Yossip, someone not afraid to hang shit on their mom!
Like Sultanism, but like only today man, you dig it gaybud???????

 

[gingermeggs]

lets stop demonizing them before they do anything. if, and a big if, they ever acted against us we would have reason to act. now though they are a new democracy, just like we were once, with maybe radical beliefs relative to others, just like we were once, it is our chance to shine and support those who sought a form of democracy(one of the key steps towards liberty).

I like what you say-
give em space to grow and evolve....as long as their peaceful it's a win.
If they don't well shut em out of the modern world, let em throw rocks at each other, until they figure out it doesn't get you anywhere positive.

 

[cybrsage]

Yup, another reason why neo-conservatism was a failed foreign policy. It was premised on the notion that people everywhere want democracy when clearly they do not.

If they did not want democracy, they would not have rioted against the military rulers during the brief interrum where their own military ruled them.

But they did, demanding elections.

 

[chucky2]

Yeesh, cut'em some slack! So they elected what in Reality will be a sh1tty set of representatives...it's their first shot after having basically a dictatorship for 30 years, give'em some time to grow and mature into it. The US is no better, we've got a whole town of people that would be in almost all our best interests to have a neutron bomb go off in it, weep for the few %'s of good people that got toasted, and then cheer for the cleaning that was finally accomplished.

We're no better in the grand scheme of things - especially since we know better - than the Egyptians.

 

[irishScott]

If your so passionate about it maybe you should live there and be the spearhead of the new modern Egyptian democracy....
So hows YOUR economy going?
Is it time to focus on your own backyard and whats not right with your banksters and YOUR democracy????????????
Time for Irish jokes I guess, crime is easy with so many idiots to fool with!

Actually I'm American. Irish heritage.

And do you have any idea how stupid you sound? Yes, obviously I need to devote 100% of my life to whatever I'm even mildly passionate about. I think Farscape is a great series, was passionate about it. So screw my girlfriend, family, friends, engineering career and life up this point. I'm devoting my life to remaking Farscape!