Ancient civilization? with poll

How old is ciliaztrion

  • 6k parise Jesus

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • 8k mainstream

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • 20K Tin foil hats

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • we walking with dinosaurs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You spelled Civilization wrong

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Some scientist anthropologist ect. are coming around to the idea that a comet that hit the earth some 12900 years ago ended the days of all the large mammals. There is ample evidence for this. And some say the collapse of an advanced human civilization that was responsible for a lot of the megalithic archaeology sites they are finding today. I'm not talking today's level of technology but more than just stone or copper tools.

Archaeologist until recently claimed the stone shaping and moving were done more recently by civilizations like the Mayan, egyptians. I don't buy it. Not to mention the same style of "cravings" occur all over the world even easter island. And some of the stones found weigh hundreds of tons. Notice the nubs at the bottom they also occur all over the world at other megalithic sites. How was that information shared across the oceans? And this is just one of many similar items such as metal clasps between the carved stones.

qG2bEz8.jpg


So I had some ideas some are supported some not.

An advanced civilization was around at least 20+ thousand years all over the world not todays advanced but more so than copper and stone.

They built the megalithic sites being unearthed all around the world these days. Recent civilizations built on tops of these sites, there is evidence for this.

The "Clovis comet" some 13K years ago hit the north american Ice sheet (thats why no crater has been found). Causing catastrophic flooding and sea level rise all around the world wiping out much of north american civilizations and the large mammals. This also caused extreme climate change collapsing civilizations all around the world.

-Well there you go my fingers are tired and my brain hurts. Any thoughts? The field is amazing wish I had chosen to be an archaeologist or paleontologist .

:lollipop:
 
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local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,851
515
136
What do you define as civilization? Tools, huts, farming, writing, architecture, infrastructure? Depending on what you call civilization the answer could be all over the place.

But I am with you a bit on one thing, the common trends we can see across the entire world from the oldest civilizations are a bit intriguing. Like pyramids, I know the official answer is that pyramidal structures are the simplest to make for primitive people and that is fine but why are these simple structures usually built to such precision? Ok fine all the ones built by shoddy contractors fell down. But then you have the Nazca Lines, the newly discovered Paracas geoglyphs, geoglyphs found under the rain forest, and other large man made creations that we can only really see well from the air type stuff around the world.

It may all just be coincidence but it still feels like we are missing a piece of the puzzle. I think there is something that we have not found that may link these together and no I do not necessarily mean "aliens", although I am a bit of an interdimensional hypothesis believer.

One thing I don't believe is that there was an advanced human civilization in the past that spread all this stuff around. As a species we have proven that we are very good at leaving our mark on any location we inhabit on this planet and if a civ existed that could spread that knowledge around the world the marks it left behind would be obvious.

TLDR:
MNnu47K.png
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,581
511
126
You should not underestimate our ancestors; they were as smart as us, and didn't have internet porn to distract them.

I agree and double down to say smarter in certain cases.

There's never going to be another Mozart or Beethoven or Wagner. Ever.

For starters - society doesn't allow kids to be treated like that anymore. Their synapses were honed from an incredibly young age, often by disagreeable means. And these guys had NOTHING to distract them from their composing. That's all they did, all day long (well, almost).
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,504
5,909
136
I agree and double down to say smarter in certain cases.

There's never going to be another Mozart or Beethoven or Wagner. Ever.

For starters - society doesn't allow kids to be treated like that anymore. Their synapses were honed from an incredibly young age, often by disagreeable means. And these guys had NOTHING to distract them from their composing. That's all they did, all day long (well, almost).

you never know, it could happen again.

i was intrigued by the emergent civilization in "a deepness in the sky" by vinge. a society that learned enough about the brain to tweak people's minds and basically make them idiot savants in any given field. and then in order to survive, they did this to almost their entire population. they're very good at what they do, and if it were possible, i could see humanity doing something like this in the future.

think of the efficiency that could be gained, the waste that could be lost and the strides that could be made if everyone only innately cared about technological progress for survival, and were happy spending every single waking moment doing it.

of course this type of civilization would preclude music as it is pointless for survival and advancement, but they could definitely have physicists at the einstein or newton level (and possibly much greater).
 
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Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
What do you define as civilization? Tools, huts, farming, writing, architecture, infrastructure? Depending on what you call civilization the answer could be all over the place.

But I am with you a bit on one thing, the common trends we can see across the entire world from the oldest civilizations are a bit intriguing. Like pyramids, I know the official answer is that pyramidal structures are the simplest to make for primitive people and that is fine but why are these simple structures usually built to such precision? Ok fine all the ones built by shoddy contractors fell down. But then you have the Nazca Lines, the newly discovered Paracas geoglyphs, geoglyphs found under the rain forest, and other large man made creations that we can only really see well from the air type stuff around the world.

It may all just be coincidence but it still feels like we are missing a piece of the puzzle. I think there is something that we have not found that may link these together and no I do not necessarily mean "aliens", although I am a bit of an interdimensional hypothesis believer.

One thing I don't believe is that there was an advanced human civilization in the past that spread all this stuff around. As a species we have proven that we are very good at leaving our mark on any location we inhabit on this planet and if a civ existed that could spread that knowledge around the world the marks it left behind would be obvious.

TLDR:

Unfortunately you mention aliens and everyone brings up the same meme but Aliens or Interdimensional hypothesis or whatever is possible no one really knows. But for a more earthly explanation I was mentioning others.

For example how were these stones cut? They are harder than the copper and and stone tools they found and were supposed to have back than. And with such pression and the same style all over the world. Personally I think they cut them for the looks.

20130817-050045.jpg
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,581
511
126
you never know, it could happen again.

i was intrigued by the emergent civilization in "a deepness in the sky" by vinge. a society that learned enough about the brain to tweak people's minds and basically make them idiot savants in any given field. and then in order to survive, they did this to almost their entire population. they're very good at what they do, and if it were possible, i could see humanity doing something like this in the future.

think of the efficiency that could be gained, the waste that could be lost and the strides that could be made if everyone only innately cared about technological progress for survival, and were happy spending every single waking moment doing it.

True, but there would be a cost. At least IMO there would be.

At the heart of Mozart's or Beethoven's work is their soul. A soul defined by struggle inherent to humanity.

Beethoven was losing his hearing, for God's sake. His response was not to whine and draw inward. It was to rise above his condition in a way few humans could have.

What genetic tweaking can replace that?
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Wikipedia claims the evidence for a Clovis Comet / Younger Dryas impact has been debunked by other scientists so the alien overseers must have left on their own, probably after the unobtanium mines stopped producing ore.
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,144
929
126
The megalithic sites were built by giants. Human giants with skills, tools, and lots of spare time.

Geoglyphs were laid out with the aid of observers in hot air balloons. Must have been hella laborious without radios. Maybe they had a zipline?
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Wikipedia claims the evidence for a Clovis Comet / Younger Dryas impact has been debunked by other scientists so the alien overseers must have left on their own, probably after the unobtanium mines stopped producing ore.

There was/is still a debate and wiki is not always up to date. The last Wiki update is from 2012, A recent report from nature.com just last year, 2017 suggest that there is evidence to support a possible a impact event.

But you could still leave out the comet impact theory and go with some other sort of natural disaster near the end of the last ice age.
 
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May 11, 2008
21,193
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You don't need comets. small Lips (Large Igneous province) will do fine.
It seems even the French revolution was fueled by this in a bizar turn of events.

Even if LIPs are the “smoking gun” behind most mass extinctions, that still doesn’t tell us how they killed animals. It wasn’t the lava. Despite the moniker—flood basalts—these are not raging torrents. You could probably out-walk the lava from a Large Igneous Province. As vast as they were, they flowed in much the same way as lava in Iceland or Hawaii flows today, with glistening orange and grey lobes swelling, stretching, and spilling to make new lobes. An advancing front will typically move at about a kilometer or two in a day (the average person can walk that distance in 30 minutes).

Unfortunately, gas is deadlier than lava.

The 1783-4 Laki eruption in Iceland gave us a tiny taste of what to expect from a LIP. It bathed Europe in an acid haze for five months, strong enough to burn throats and eyes, scorch vegetation and tarnish metal, to kill insects and even fish. That may be a killer, but, as far as science can tell, the haze from a LIP on its own is unlikely to be sufficient to cause a mass extinction. The climate effects of volcanic gases are deadlier still. Stratospheric sulfur from Laki cooled the planet by 1.3 degrees Celsius for three years, triggering one of the most severe winters on record in Europe, North America, Russia, and Japan. Famines ensued in many parts of the world, and that may have planted the seeds for the French Revolution five years later.

A decade-long LIP eruption could cool the planet by about 4.5 degrees Celsius, although the climate would recover in 50 years. This would no doubt cause geopolitical and financial chaos, but it’s unlikely by itself to eradicate a significant percentage of species from the sea, given the time it takes to mix the oceans (about a thousand years) and their huge thermal inertia.

That is borne out by the fact that not every LIP causes a mass extinction. As an example, the Paraná–Etendeka LIP, which erupted 134 million years ago in South America and Southern Africa, had only a small effect on climate and no mass extinction. The Columbia River LIP is another example of a relatively harmless event, despite blanketing a large part of northwestern USA in lava.

Something else must be required to kill off life on a global scale. The clue is, once again, revealed by precise rock dates.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/when-will-the-earth-try-to-kill-us-again/


anatomy2.jpg


https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/when-will-the-earth-try-to-kill-us-again/
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,504
5,909
136
Thanks I was looking for something to read.

sure, they are some of my favorites. "a fire upon the deep" was the first zones of thought book he did, then "a deepness in the sky" which was actually the prequel. if i read them again i'm not sure what order i'd do them in.