Anatomy of a well-intentioned Linux Troll

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Soviet
If your a cheapskate of you dont like big companies or you want to do somthing sad weird and daft that no normal person would ever want to do on their operating system by all means! use linux! Otherwise, stay the hell away from that turkey! Its not better than windows, its not just as easy, it sure as hell isnt worth it

That sounds awfully subjective to me. 🙁

and i will gladly give gates my cash for somthing that can do the following:
1. Run my computer, memory management etc etc

This isn't exactly a Windows only type of thing. 😛

2. present info to me in an easy and understandable fashion

I get that on half a dozen OSes. 😛

3. word process

Abiword, Kword, and Swriter all work fine.

4. run all my apps, even those intended for earlier crappier os's

I get this on a half dozen OSes. 😛

5. paint

I have illegals do that. It's cheaper.

6. play music

:roll:

7. record music

:roll:

8. burn things to a cd

Available on any number of OSes.

9. play movies

Available on any number of OSes.

10. surf the web

Available on any number of OSes.

I could go past 10, some people could go WAY past 10. Moaning over having to pay for a cd that can do ALL that is just sad... Its worth it, so the whole "linux is free so its better" arguement falls flat on its face. You get what you pay for! (unless you pirate it but thats another story)

I get what I pay for, and much much more. 😀

I do actually buy cds on occassion. The money goes to support the project, and it's a really nice thing to do. 🙂

Basically i dont like linux but i do admire the fact that some guy managed to write this thing and start his own os and now there are many many people working on the thing. He simply did it after gates managed it.

And Gates did it after many many others. I wonder if it bothers him that he has the second most popular OS on the planet... 😛

 

[Maximilian]

You just like linux because you want to be different :s ...... You dont actually have a proper reason other than not being a sheep!

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
And Gates did it after many many others. I wonder if it bothers him that he has the second most popular OS on the planet... 😛

LMAO....that is a funny thought


If the whole "hit f6" thing is so easy, why is there at least 1-5 posts a week on it?

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Soviet
You just like linux because you want to be different :s ...... You dont actually have a proper reason other than not being a sheep!

If you're saying that there are no reasons whatsoever that would ever cause anyone to logically come to the conclusion that they should prefer Linux over something else (Windows) for their application, then... well, I stand in awe at how well a person can delude themselves for the purposes of making themselves feel good and insulting others.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: ProviaFan

Originally posted by: Soviet
You just like linux because you want to be different :s ...... You dont actually have a proper reason other than not being a sheep!

If you're saying that there are no reasons whatsoever that would ever cause anyone to logically come to the conclusion that they should prefer Linux over something else (Windows) for their application, then... well, I stand in awe at how well a person can delude themselves for the purposes of making themselves feel good and insulting others.

I like it when people are in awe of me 🙂

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Soviet
You just like linux because you want to be different :s ...... You dont actually have a proper reason other than not being a sheep!

I don't care much for Linux. It's ok, but I try to use it as little as possible. The fact I can get paid support for it is a bonus at work though (yes, I know this is available for Windows too).

I prefer OpenBSD for a number of reasons:

1. It feels comfortable. It's like a nice worn pair of jeans, or those old ratty shoes your woman keeps telling you to toss out. It's probably not the best, but I like it. 🙂
2. The development work they do is amazing. They're some rad hackers.
3. The development is going in a direction that helps me out.
4. It appeals to my paranoid nature.
5. It's logical and documented.
6. The firewall is top notch, and I haven't seen any other that can compete. And I mean everything from Checkpoint to Zone Alarm has a LONG way to go, IMO.
7. The user community is amazing, brilliant, and often hilarious.
8. Shoes are overrated, but :beer: isn't.

I could go more technical, but what's the point?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
And Gates did it after many many others. I wonder if it bothers him that he has the second most popular OS on the planet... 😛

LMAO....that is a funny thought

Do you know the name of the OS I'm talking about (and no, it isn't Linux). It's a small Open Source OS out of japan, that apparently runs on just about everything embedded. 😛

If the whole "hit f6" thing is so easy, why is there at least 1-5 posts a week on it?

Exactly my original point. :beer:😀

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Soviet
You just like linux because you want to be different :s ...... You dont actually have a proper reason other than not being a sheep!

I don't care much for Linux. It's ok, but I try to use it as little as possible. The fact I can get paid support for it is a bonus at work though (yes, I know this is available for Windows too).

I prefer OpenBSD for a number of reasons:

1. It feels comfortable. It's like a nice worn pair of jeans, or those old ratty shoes your woman keeps telling you to toss out. It's probably not the best, but I like it. 🙂
2. The development work they do is amazing. They're some rad hackers.
3. The development is going in a direction that helps me out.
4. It appeals to my paranoid nature.
5. It's logical and documented.
6. The firewall is top notch, and I haven't seen any other that can compete. And I mean everything from Checkpoint to Zone Alarm has a LONG way to go, IMO.
7. The user community is amazing, brilliant, and often hilarious.
8. Shoes are overrated, but :beer: isn't.

I could go more technical, but what's the point?

Fair enuf.... If yer happy with it.... Least you arent trying to convince others to use it like so many ive seen do with linux or OSX or w/e.

 

[CTho9305]

4. run all my apps, even those intended for earlier crappier os's

I get this on a half dozen OSes.

No you don't. If you had a binary linked against gcc 3.2's libstdc++, and you switch to gcc 3.4, guess what? I just played an old dos game today on windows XP and it just worked. Even if you had the source for a linux app, there's no guarantee you'll have versions of the -devel packages that it works with (or even a compiler that it works with).

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Soviet
Fair enuf.... If yer happy with it.... Least you arent trying to convince others to use it like so many ive seen do with linux or OSX or w/e.

I'm not an advocate. I piss people off too easily. 😱

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

4. run all my apps, even those intended for earlier crappier os's

I get this on a half dozen OSes.

No you don't. If you had a binary linked against gcc 3.2's libstdc++, and you switch to gcc 3.4, guess what? I just played an old dos game today on windows XP and it just worked. Even if you had the source for a linux app, there's no guarantee you'll have versions of the -devel packages that it works with (or even a compiler that it works with).

I do get this. I use plenty of applications where the authors intended it to be used on Linux. :evil:

Often times older libraries are still around, so as long as they're labeled properly (like it isn't looking for libstdc++.so instead of libstdc.so.40.0 or whatever) it should be fine. C++ apps seem to be fairly rare these days...

 

[CTho9305]

C++ apps seem to be fairly rare these days...

Mozilla? Firefox? (They're why I had to find out about this library BS 😉)

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

C++ apps seem to be fairly rare these days...

Mozilla? Firefox? (They're why I had to find out about this library BS 😉)

That's 2, and KDE makes 3. I use the packages for my OS revision, which means that the libraries linked in the binaries are the right ones. Doing other wise would be stupid. 🙂

 

[CTho9305]

I use the packages for my OS revision, which means that the libraries linked in the binaries are the right ones. Doing other wise would be stupid. 🙂

Great, so on linux, if I want an application, it has to be approved and packaged by some group? That's like having to go through Microsoft to get applications. Plusses and minuses. If it's some tiny random app, that's a minus. If you're waiting for a security update (or even new feature update) longer as a result, that's a minus.

I've seen these trolls complain that there are too many programs installed for any given task (solution: Ubuntu--one program for each task) or that the boot-up is verbose instead of silent (solution: Mepis, Mandriva, just about any user-friendly distro) or that themes are difficult to install (solution: Gnome) or that there needs to be a Windows clone distro (solution: Linspire).

So, at least with SuSe, that means that if I want both themability and session management that isn't broken, I'm SOL? (Gnome sessions don't work right) edit: It just seems that of the million choices for each task, every option has one big problem or another.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Great, so on linux, if I want an application, it has to be approved and packaged by some group? That's like having to go through Microsoft to get applications. Plusses and minuses. If it's some tiny random app, that's a minus. If you're waiting for a security update (or even new feature update) longer as a result, that's a minus.

Then compile it yourself. I can generally wait, or make the necessary changes myself. 🙂

The benefits of using pre-packaged software is that there is a better chance it will work. It's been tested and looked over by a number of people instead of relying on some yahoos (😉) that develop the software for a very limited range of systems.

 

[drag]

Noc is absolutely right.

With Debian all the packages aviable are supported by individual debian developers. There is a set and documented person that is held responsable for each and every package that is provided by them.

These guys tend to be pretty decent. They volenteer for the position and are usually associated with that piece of software in some way. Sometimes they are 'upstream' developers for that package, but more then likely they depend on that package professionally for whatever reason and understand it's functionality pretty well and communicate with the original developers of the software.

That way if you discover a bug then do your best to troubleshoot it and post all relevent information on it they will be more then likely be able to help you resolve it, and if they can't then they can usually decide pretty well if it's your problem or the problem of the software authors themselves.

Not that it's a perfect system, far from it, but it's pretty handy resource to have aviable to you.

Then you have the security team that try to keep up on the latest developements with software flaws and try to keep everybody informed of the problems in software they don't support (testing and unstable) and release overiding packages in what they can support (stable)

This is in contrast to things you have to go thru with Microsoft were they even try to charge you money for the pleasure of filing a bug report. (unless it's security related)

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: spyordie007
There have been a lot of great posts here so I'm not going to try and step on anyone's toes however an observation:

I periodically use Linux and have some experience with it; however it's all "play" experience. I have no real "production" experience using Linux as a client machine (in certain server situations this is differant, however that's outside of the scope of this discussion). I have found that Linux is a bit "rough around the edges" for several reasons (such as those that Drag mentioned), not that it does a bad job but just that at times I as a user have to go a bit further than I would on another system to get what I would consider basic funcationality working.

Max OS X is a great example as an alternative. I know less about Mac OS X than I do about Linux however from a usability perspective I am able to pick it up much quicker. The UI (and yes even command prompt) are structured in a way that I can figure out how to do things quicker. Lets face it even if there is a great man page on an application it's easier if I dont have to read it. Granted some of this was due to hardware support (eliminating some of the pain-points with linux) but a lot of this is software as well.

The advantage that Microsoft and Apple have here than Linux (generally) does not is that they have teams dedicated to usability studies and setting things up so that users can figure out how to use them quickly (I'm speaking of both users with previous experience as well as first-timers). Linux generally doesnt have a "centralized" group responsible for this as it's developed more in a "building-block" fashon.

People are just starting to do long term and wide spread usability studies for LotD (linux on the desktop 😉 ). With Linux 2.6 and it's success in the server room many companies/developers are shifting their priorities. There are a few companies that are involved in usability studies. Novell's big on this one. For them to survive long term it's critical that Linux is a good alternative to Windows on the corporate desktop.

They sponsored stuff like this:
http://www.betterdesktop.org/welcome/

Everyonce and a while you'll here and see projects for usability studies. There are a few coming out of the EU that are often government sponsored. Sun Microsystems gave a big boost to Gnome usability a couple years ago with some professional-style studies. Both Gnome/KDE have usability projects and UI guidelines that are fairly tightly enforced within there respective desktop/developement enviroments.

This sort of thing hasnt't been going on very long though and is still smallish in scope.

 

[jhu]

netcraft confirms: bsd is dying!