Anandtech second review of 8600GT/GTS is very good

[yacoub]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2975

As stated in the comments, it's disappointing but helpful to see confirmation of the mediocrity of these cards. It is good to see a nice unbiased review that does not sugar-coat the pathetic results these cards are posting in some games and the so-so to just-okay results in other games.

The fact remains a new generation of cards should consistently outperform the previous generation at the same price/performance level.

The 8600GT needs to CONSISTENTLY outperform the 7600GT, the 8600GTS needs to CONSISTENTLY outperform the 7900GS/7900GT, and neither of these cards can manage that because they are cut down too far. A 256-bit bus and 64 stream processsors on the GTS for the same price point and it would have been a success and ensured NVidia victory across the board because the GT could then be the 128-bit 32SP card, etc down the line.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Abysmal AA performance with the 8600GTS, a 50% drop in framerate in FEAR. The 8800GTS 320MB didn't fare well either despite having more RAM and a 2.5x wider memory bus; became 40% slower. And this is just 1280x1024.

 

[Aikouka]

7900GT looks more like a "competitor" for the 8800GTS to me.

 

[yh125d]

That just makes it easier for me to justify getting a x1950pro instead

 

[Matts0344]

I agree, I really enjoyed the review.

What are the next cards that will be come out for Nvidia?

8600GS, 8880GS, 8900GT, etc?

 

[PingSpike]

Its performance between different titles is to inconsistent to justify its price. As the AT review points out, there are no DX10 games and probably won't be for awhile.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
7900GT looks more like a "competitor" for the 8800GTS to me.

Well if the 8600GT blew away the 7600GT as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, and the 8600GTS blew away the 7900GS as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, then yeah, the 7900GT is the previous generation competitor for the 8800GTS. But given that the 8600GTS can barely keep pace with a 7900GS, there's a huge disparity there (because NVidia hacked down the 8600GTS too much on the stream processors and bus bandwidth).

 

[Acanthus]

Ive been saying it since the specs were leaked a month ago.

The card is starved for bandwidth, and its a damn joke.

It will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

My biggest problem with Nvidias move is they failed to raise the lowest common denominator this generation, meaning programmers wont improve games all that much if the average joes hardware cant run it.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: yacoub
Well if the 8600GT blew away the 7600GT as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, and the 8600GTS blew away the 7900GS as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, then yeah, the 7900GT is the previous generation competitor for the 8800GTS. But given that the 8600GTS can barely keep pace with a 7900GS, there's a huge disparity there (because NVidia hacked down the 8600GTS too much on the stream processors and bus bandwidth).

That's not how I compare them:

8800GTX : 7900GTX
8800GTS : 7900GT
8800GTS 320 : 7900GS
8600GTS : 7600GT
8600GT : 7600GS

Seems more logical to me. I don't see why a #600 part should ever be compared to a #800 part, unless the #800 part had some serious downscaling that made it on par with the #600 part.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Ive been saying it since the specs were leaked a month ago.

The card is starved for bandwidth, and its a damn joke.

It will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

My biggest problem with Nvidias move is they failed to raise the lowest common denominator this generation, meaning programmers wont improve games all that much if the average joes hardware cant run it.

What is the lowest common denominator? Last generations mid range was the 7600 series. How does the 8600 series compare? i am looking at the benchmarks and the 8600GTS blows away the 7600GT, both cards were initially priced in the same bracket.

I'd say the lowest common denominator for the mid range has been moved up.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: yacoub
Well if the 8600GT blew away the 7600GT as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, and the 8600GTS blew away the 7900GS as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, then yeah, the 7900GT is the previous generation competitor for the 8800GTS. But given that the 8600GTS can barely keep pace with a 7900GS, there's a huge disparity there (because NVidia hacked down the 8600GTS too much on the stream processors and bus bandwidth).

That's not how I compare them:

8800GTX : 7900GTX
8800GTS : 7900GT
8800GTS 320 : 7900GS
8600GTS : 7600GT
8600GT : 7600GS

That's your failure to compare the proper cards, then. If you're going to pretend the 8800GTS is two different levels simply because it has different RAM counts, then you have to differentiate the 7900GT and 7950GT as separate cards.

So once again you have:

8800GTX : 7900GTX
8800GTS : 7900GT
8600GTS: 7900GS
8600GT : 7600GT


And regardless the performance numbers speak for themselves as to how these cards fail.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: yacoub
Well if the 8600GT blew away the 7600GT as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, and the 8600GTS blew away the 7900GS as well as the 8800GTS blows away the 7900GT, then yeah, the 7900GT is the previous generation competitor for the 8800GTS. But given that the 8600GTS can barely keep pace with a 7900GS, there's a huge disparity there (because NVidia hacked down the 8600GTS too much on the stream processors and bus bandwidth).

That's not how I compare them:

8800GTX : 7900GTX
8800GTS : 7900GT
8800GTS 320 : 7900GS
8600GTS : 7600GT
8600GT : 7600GS

Seems more logical to me. I don't see why a #600 part should ever be compared to a #800 part, unless the #800 part had some serious downscaling that made it on par with the #600 part.

Good luck getting young yacoub to understand where these cards sit\sat in Nvidia's model. The 7600 GT when debuted was the 8600GTS. Somehow yacoub thinks the 7900GT when debuted was the mid range card from Nvidia which is simply silly considering its core was an exact replica of the 7900GTX and was priced at 349 out of the gate.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Ive been saying it since the specs were leaked a month ago.

The card is starved for bandwidth, and its a damn joke.

It will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

My biggest problem with Nvidias move is they failed to raise the lowest common denominator this generation, meaning programmers wont improve games all that much if the average joes hardware cant run it.

What is the lowest common denominator? Last generations mid range was the 7600 series. How does the 8600 series compare? i am looking at the benchmarks and the 8600GTS blows away the 7600GT, both cards were initially priced in the same bracket.

I'd say the lowest common denominator for the mid range has been moved up.

The 8600GT, which you are ignoring and which is the direct replacement for the 7600GT, does indeed raise the bar a whopping handful of fps in the tests shown. I guess if you care more about pedantic semantics than seeing a significant improvement, you're right.

 

[PingSpike]

Marketing positions are irrelevant IMO, the only metric that matters is performance per dollar compared against any products that are available for purchase. And by that metric, these cards fail to compete. There are readily available last generation products that cost less money and offer better consistent peformance.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Ive been saying it since the specs were leaked a month ago.

The card is starved for bandwidth, and its a damn joke.

It will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

My biggest problem with Nvidias move is they failed to raise the lowest common denominator this generation, meaning programmers wont improve games all that much if the average joes hardware cant run it.

What is the lowest common denominator? Last generations mid range was the 7600 series. How does the 8600 series compare? i am looking at the benchmarks and the 8600GTS blows away the 7600GT, both cards were initially priced in the same bracket.

I'd say the lowest common denominator for the mid range has been moved up.

The 8600GT, which you are ignoring and which is the direct replacement for the 7600GT, does indeed raise the bar a whopping handful of fps in the tests shown. I guess if you care more about pedantic semantics than seeing a significant improvement, you're right.

Perfect example right here of not getting it.

When debuted which price bracket did the 7600GT occupy? Now compare that to where the 8600GTS sits on the price bracket.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Marketing positions are irrelevant IMO, the only metric that matters is performance per dollar compared against any products that are available for purchase. And by that metric, these cards fail to compete. There are readily available last generation products that cost less money and offer better consistent peformance.

You are correct however I doubt Nvidia will continue to make 7900 series cards that canibalize their 8600 line. And when AMD gets the chance they will stop production on their X1900 series cards which will also canibalize their mid range.

Give the market a few months to sort it out.

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: AcanthusIt will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

QFT

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: crimson117

Originally posted by: AcanthusIt will not perform well in DX10, common sense says games will be more demanding than DX9 games, even with the improvements in efficiency.

QFT

To be honest, I dont expect any of these first gen DX10 cards to be very good DX10 performers. We might find a demo or two with sprinkled in DX10 effects where it pulls decent performance. But once the full brunt of the library is used, these cards will be low end junk.

I suggest not buying a card based on its lvl of features that arent currently being used, nor expected to be used in the next 12 months.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Genx87
young yacoub

Ah yes, must slide an ad hominem in there to ensure you sound superior, nay even wise and aged. It's not my fault the cards suck so don't take your angst out on me, chief. (Or should I call you "kid", so I sound old too?)

And

Originally posted by: Genx87
To be honest, I dont expect any of these first gen DX10 cards to be very good DX10 performers.

Funny, the 8800GTS and GTX seem to be quite amazing performers.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: Genx87
young yacoub

Ah yes, must slide an ad hominem in there to ensure you sound superior, nay even wise and aged. It's not my fault the cards suck so don't take your angst out on me, chief. (Or should I call you "kid", so I sound old too?)

And

Originally posted by: Genx87
To be honest, I dont expect any of these first gen DX10 cards to be very good DX10 performers.

Funny, the 8800GTS and GTX seem to be quite amazing performers.

Lots of DX10 titles out there?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: yacoub
That's your failure to compare the proper cards, then. If you're going to pretend the 8800GTS is two different levels simply because it has different RAM counts, then you have to differentiate the 7900GT and 7950GT as separate cards.

So once again you have:

8800GTX : 7900GTX
8800GTS : 7900GT
8600GTS: 7900GS
8600GT : 7600GT

Just because there's no exact defining model difference does not mean you can bump a card up from mid-range to high-end because it "fills the gap." Yes, the 320MB model of the 8800GTS isn't that different than its beefier brethren, but it serves as a separate comparison model if you drastically need to compare something.

Originally posted by: yacoub
And regardless the performance numbers speak for themselves as to how these cards fail.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just arguing against your comparison cards. These cards don't perform linearly compared to the 8800GTS when you compare the price differences and framerate differences.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Genx87
Lots of DX10 titles out there?

Actually nVidia has a DirectX 10 demo available for these cards on its website. Also, people buying these may mention DX10 as a reason to buy them, but their immediate use will obviously not be DX10. I mainly bought mine to avoid buying (what I refer to as) "old tech" and sure, I'll have a DX10 part when DX10 games are available; that's just a caveat of my setup.

 

[Mem]

Anybody that is looking at the 8600 range might as well wait for AMD/ATI midrange models,I was really disappointed with the 8600GTS card in benchmarks.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

I dont see how someone can still try to come up with stuff to try to justify the poor performance of these things *points at Genx87*

Seriously, who cares where the cards are SUPPOSED to fit? Fact of the matter is at the moment a x1950pro is much cheaper AND equal or faster, making the 8600GTS look like crap, and 8600GT well.. I wont even comment on it

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
I dont see how someone can still try to come up with stuff to try to justify the poor performance of these things *points at Genx87*

Seriously, who cares where the cards are SUPPOSED to fit? Fact of the matter is at the moment a x1950pro is much cheaper AND equal or faster, making the 8600GTS look like crap, and 8600GT well.. I wont even comment on it

To shine a different light on it. Next generation when the mid range cards barely beat the 8800 series are we all going to collectively cry ourselves to sleep that we didnt get an upgrade path from last generations high end to this generations mid range?

 

[nyker96]

this 8600xxx thing doesn't look too impressive, maybe AMD's DX10 mid range parts will be more appealing.