Anand's Review of Parhelia is up!

[PG]

"Look at the G400 MAX go. At 1600x1200 it pummels the next fastest card."

That was a comment for only a 16 bit color Expendable benchmark and the G400 was beaten by a Voodoo3 at all other resolutions. The G400 did well at that one high res, but not all all resolutions. There were no results for the Vodoo3 at 1600x1200, so maybe a simple 3Dfx driver problem gave Matrox the win in that specific resolution.


"This chart is pretty clear cut in showing the G400 MAX in the commanding lead. The G400 MAX takes advantage of the efficient 32-bit color/16bit Z-buffer mode and speeds past the TNT2 (that is held back by the 32-bit color/32-bit Z-buffer mode)."

That commanding lead was only abut 5 - 6 fps at 1600 X 1200 and the TNT2 was slightly faster at 1024x768. Overall the G400 was faster, but all the cards produced low frame rates at high res so the lead might be a moot point.
I don't see the G400 blowing the other cards away, but no, it was never a dog. I just don't think anyone can say any of those 3 cards kicked butt.

 

[vash]

The game industry has conditioned everyone to believe that FPS is king. But, as has been stated before, above 60fps is psychological. Turn off your FPS meter and tell me when you are running at 60fps compared against 90fps.

The game industry hasn't conditioned me to believe 60 FPS is key. Playing games like Quake3 has conditioned me to know higher framerates give me the better ability to shoot and hit things. Quake3, and its weapons, is a perfect example of why framerate is key. Below the 125fps mark, the lightning gun isn't so useful. Above the 125fps mark and the gun is too deadly. The same can almost be said with the railgun and rocket launcher.

Also, I do know the difference between 60fps and 100fps. Try playing a game at 100fps all the time, then turn down the max to 60fps. You'll definitely notice a difference. From my own playing, I can see a difference between 60fps and 85 fps. Much above 85fps and it gets a bit blurry.

To me, framerate is paramount, especially in all games. An un-AA'd picture, at 10x7 means a lot, because that's the resolution I'll be playing the game at. The Parhelia looks good at 10x7, with all eye candy on, but its just not fast enough with all eye candy on. If the card was only faster without AA, etc, then it would be more competitive in my mind.

Maybe with the introduction of the 256 meg card we'll see a bit of a speed bump and it'll be even better in other people's eyes.

vash

 

[virus]

As soon as I get home. I'm going to reinstall Ghost Recon and my G400. If I remember right, I found it playable at 1024x768. The only game I required a faster card for was GTA3. Everything else I play, the G400 was still usable. UT is even playable at 1600x1200x16bpp.

When I upgraded from a Duron 650@800 to an Athlon XP 1600+. I got a very noticable increase (almost double) in speed with the G400. The G400 was still CPU limited as far as I can tell.

BTW, I can even hear the difference between silver and copper cable.

 

[Drogo007]

Playing games like Quake3 has conditioned me to know higher framerates give me the better ability to shoot and hit things. Quake3, and its weapons, is a perfect example of why framerate is key. Below the 125fps mark, the lightning gun isn't so useful. Above the 125fps mark and the gun is too deadly. The same can almost be said with the railgun and rocket launcher.

Only true if Quake 3 suffers from "Motoracer 2 Syndrome". If the Developers create a game wherein people with a faster computer have a fundamental, measurable advantage over an owner of a somewhat slower system (even when both systems meet the requirements), then the developers have created a fundamentally flawed game. In motoracer 2, take two players of nearly equal skill, and put one on a computer that is somewhat faster, he'll win every time because his motorcycle ACTUALLY TRAVELS FASTER. This is a flaw in the game. So are you claiming that Id has created a flawed game? I don't think so and my experience with Quake suggests the same. Aside from aiming issues (which FPS can be a factor in, although a somewhat minor one), the Lightning gun dishes out damage at the same rate regardless of your framerate. If I'm wrong, then Quake does indeed suffer from Motoracer 2 Syndrome, and your statement is correct.

Also, I do know the difference between 60fps and 100fps. Try playing a game at 100fps all the time, then turn down the max to 60fps. You'll definitely notice a difference. From my own playing, I can see a difference between 60fps and 85 fps. Much above 85fps and it gets a bit blurry.

Fair enough. I'll believe you can tell the difference since I'll get a headache rather quickly if my monitor is at 60Hz, while I'm fine if my monitor is 75Hz or above.

To me, framerate is paramount, especially in all games. An un-AA'd picture, at 10x7 means a lot, because that's the resolution I'll be playing the game at. The Parhelia looks good at 10x7, with all eye candy on, but its just not fast enough with all eye candy on. If the card was only faster without AA, etc, then it would be more competitive in my mind.

And everyone is welcome to have their own opion. I don't begrudge you yours.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: bdog231
Amish-

I think you should just let it go. Your not changing anyone's stance on the Parhelia, let alone the G400.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm just stating the facts. I know the fps-whores around here won't ever be swayed.

amish

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

I have a GF4MX overclocked to 280/500... performance wise it should be on par with a GF2 Ultra.
I can NOT play UT at settings I desire (1024x768x32 high details) and still have the FPS and smoothness that I require.

I play at 800x600x16 with medium details because when I am on a DM server with 16 people and fighting for the lead FPS is VERY important.

 

[McCarthy]

Are you guys discussing Amish or the Parhelia? I quit halfway though this thread as I wasn't sure what the topic was anymore

--Mc

 

[merlocka]

So are you claiming that Id has created a flawed game? I don't think so and my experience with Quake suggests the same

I don't know if flawed is the right word, but I can comment on this a bit.

In quake3, the physics of jumping can change very slightly depending on the FPS you have. It's not a more=better type of thing, but the way that trajectories are calculated, you can actually move and jump slightly faster/further depending on your current framerate.

I can't recall the exact numbers, but "upset chaps" did a nice write up on it. Search for that clan name.

The theory is, lock your frame rate at one of the idea values and make sure it never ever ever ever dips below that value.

The lightning gun changes things slightly. It is (in theory) the second most deadly weapon in Q3 (plasma gun is the most deadly), but in practice it's the killer. With sick fps, you can train it on an opponent much better than with "reasonable" fps rates. I can notice the difference beteween 60fps and 85fps, and even the difference between 85fps and 150ish (about as high as my system can go).

 

[Belegost]

I completely believe Amish. I run a 3dfx Banshee, (on a Duron 950@1065) a generation behind the V3s, and G400s. I have been able to play with smooth enough framerates:

UT 1024x768 High detail actors, medium detail enviroment; 26 fps avg on most maps, though it drops on the high poly ones like EpicBoy.

Jedi Knight II 800x600 med detail. I never checked the fps, but I played the entire single player campaign, as well as enough of the multiplayer to know it was boring, smooth enough for me.

Return To Castle Wolfenstein: same as JKII.

The only game that brought my system to it's knees was Tribes2. There's serious problems trying to run the game through D3D, and using a MiniGL driver to run it through OpenGL rendering was choppy.

I don't see what the big deal is about framerates...

** shrugs

 

[Degenerate]

I don't see what the big deal is about framerates...

Most people play FPS games to have fun... that actually means kill people.
I dunno about you but once the frames drop to below 40-50, the rockets, the AWP, the rail, the desert eagle no longer want to work.

 

[MTVsucks]

Im running a g400 and i love it. Picture is perfect, tv out is awsome. I will admit i am not a gamer at all, but when i fire up games i have no problems, they are smooth with no distortion. rtcw played perfect, no problems at all playing it.

 

[DaFinn]

Uhhh, I had to roll back to see the thread title

"Anand's Review of Parhelia is up!"

WTH for everybody is talking about G400??? What ever happened to keeping discussion ON TOPIC?
I though I find peoples opinions about Parhelia but nooo... People here are still talking about G400...
Its so sad