That thing blows the Geforce 4600 right out of the water. On average probably 50% faster and in some cases 250% faster than a 4600. Looks like ATI will have the performance crown for at least 4-5 months.
Anands Radeon 9700 Review is Posted! WOW!
- Thread starter coomarlin
- Start date
Yeah, I just finished reading the (p)review. I don't really care much for framerates (as long as the game runs at an acceptable rate), but the (p)review impressed me.
I promised myself not to upgrade until my Radeon 64 is really, really, really no longer good enough to run games at a decent framerate, but it looks like I'm going to break that promise... :Q
I promised myself not to upgrade until my Radeon 64 is really, really, really no longer good enough to run games at a decent framerate, but it looks like I'm going to break that promise... :Q
Most people only seem to care about raw framerates, but in the R300's case, the visuals are apparently stunning. Kyle over at HardOCP reviewed the radeon 9700 and said that the radeon running at 1600x1200 with 4X AA and 16XAF was faster than a Ti4600 without the AA or AF in some benchmarks. Now that is impressive.
I think this is really good for ATI. I like nVidia's cards, but I do not want to see them get into a position where they crumple their opponents. That wold not be good for the video card industry. Competition is good, and in this case ATI has stepped up to the plate.
Tom's hardware mentioned that some nVidia execs said they weren't impressed with the R300? Sounds like they are downplaying the R300 to cover their ass
LOL
I think this is really good for ATI. I like nVidia's cards, but I do not want to see them get into a position where they crumple their opponents. That wold not be good for the video card industry. Competition is good, and in this case ATI has stepped up to the plate.
Tom's hardware mentioned that some nVidia execs said they weren't impressed with the R300? Sounds like they are downplaying the R300 to cover their ass
LOLSadly, it doesn't seem to support dual DVI outputs for flat-panel displays. That lets me out. :disgust: :Q :frown: :|
:disgust: :Q :frown: :|Originally posted by: heliomphalodon
Sadly, it doesn't seem to support dual DVI outputs for flat-panel displays. That lets me out.
Welcome to the minority
Competition is great news for us, nVidia would love people to believe that they beat ATI at every release, but the only reason we got the GF3TI200 and TI500 cards was due to the Rad8500 being too strong for the GF3. Same for GF4TI4200 and the GF2MX400 card for that matter. If nvidia weren't anticipating Rad9000 then they would never have released the 4200, it is more about filling the Rad9000's market segment before the card is even out! Looks as though they weren't able to fill the Rad9700 market though, sure they've sold a lot of 4600 cards, but Rad9700 will be the way to go when it is truly available. nVidia will be quiet as they have been successfully saturating the market with their GF4 cards. The won't want to hurt GF4 sales by tipping their hand or encourage people to buy Rad9700 by giving us a taster of their new DX9 AGP8x card. I have always said that the new gen of cards supporting DX9 and AGP8x will have to significantly improve Ani and pure perf more than anything else. AA is pretty great on current nVidia cards (4xAA isn't really necessary, QxAA & Ani is easily as good and faster too). Since AGP8x is unlikely to boost perf much, if at all and since DX9 will take 12 months to really prove useful (by which time cheaper and faster cards will be out anyway), what really matters is pure speed, and Rad9700 SEEMS to deliver. Just look at the 3 cards that will (when you can get the Rad9700) be in the top price segment's perf from that link. Parhelia (erm, oops), GF4TI4600 (respectable BUT price cut anyone) and Rad9700 (if they get moving). However lets not get too carried away. The Rad9700 is faster, but early reviews are quite rushed at the mo. 25%-50% is more realistic, but still fantastic, only nVidia knows if there new card will compete.The 4x AA performance on that card is unreal!!! This is exactly what we need to finally be able to enable the most intensive form of AA in any game and not worry about the game becoming unplayable. I really wish we could seen some data on Aniso though. But I hope that it compares to the 64-tap setting Nvidia cards allow, and with a much lower performance drop that Nvidia cards suffer from.
This card to me is the one to get. The one other feature that I really like is the Fullstream feature. That is one really useful feature for many of us, and I think that there will many more applications than simply trading blockiness for bluriness.
This card to me is the one to get. The one other feature that I really like is the Fullstream feature. That is one really useful feature for many of us, and I think that there will many more applications than simply trading blockiness for bluriness.
<snip>
Tom's hardware mentioned that some nVidia execs said they weren't impressed with the R300? Sounds like they are downplaying the R300 to cover their ass
Nvidia got thier ass kicked today... and theyre way too proud to admit it... two words: ha ha
I want a 9700 so bad but why does the industry have to ruin it by constantly alleging that
the NV30 will be superior? It isn't even close to being out yet!
the NV30 will be superior? It isn't even close to being out yet!
Remember gururu, neither is the Rad9700! Even the clock speeds haven't been officially announced yet, although everybody believes they will be about 325/650 we're still looking at September at best for true availability, and by then the new nVidia cards will be very close. Great news on what to expect from Ani perf on the Rad9700, check out this:TomsHW Rad9000Pro Review (START)
TomsHW Rad9000Pro Review (ANI Followed by AA)
Aniso perf in Q3A: GF4 take about a 10-15% hit to enable LV2 (equiv of Rad4xAni), 20-30% to enable LV8 (Rad16xAni). Rad8500 & 9000P take a small hit 5% for 4xAni & 10% for 16xAni, and Rad9700 should certainly have this enhanced further. But even at these levels that is a diff of 12% & 25% GF4 vs 5% & 10% Radeon cards. Remember that Rad9700, unlike Rad9000Pro uses the MS-AA technique at long last, and is suggested to be superior to GF4TI's implimentation in both quality and speed. Here's how the Rad9000Pro stacks up for AA:AA in Q3A: GF4MX take hits of about 50% 2xAA/QxAA & 70% 4xAA. GF4TI 20-25% 2xAA/QxAA & 50-60% 4xAA. Rad8500/9000P take about 50-60% 2xAA & 80-90% 4xAA hits.
droooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
No more 8 bit colors!!! Yeah!!! That means that I have more than 256 greens or blues or reds to play with. It also opens up the door to using the VPU as a CPU.
I just hope that the date it is suppossed to show up (w/i 30 days) is true. Last year the 8500 was 6+ weeks late after its "due date".
I just hope that the date it is suppossed to show up (w/i 30 days) is true. Last year the 8500 was 6+ weeks late after its "due date".
Guys, what's with the scales used on the benchmarks? There's just a bunch of 1's and 0's on the horizontal axis.... wtf does it mean?
Just as I expected, the ATI fanboys are circle-jerking themselves into a frenzy and crowing over the momentary edge they have. Here's the reality check:
* The latest thing will always be faster than the older thing. Matching what's current is stupid and a waste of time. Proof? Parahelia. Anyone even care about this thing now? Didn't think so.
the only reason we got the GF3TI200 and TI500 cards was due to the Rad8500 being too strong for the GF3. Same for GF4TI4200 and the GF2MX400 card for that matter. If nvidia weren't anticipating Rad9000 then they would never have released the 4200,
To believe that requires us to believe that Nvidia suddenly said, "Oh, sh*t!!! We're getting stomped! We better design and put out something new!!!" These companies plan YEARS in advance and only a fool would imagine that they could design, tape out, fab and ship chips to makers in the couple of months that occured between the 8500 and the Ti200/500s. Which leads to...
Tom's hardware mentioned that some nVidia execs said they weren't impressed with the R300? Sounds like they are downplaying the R300 to cover their ass
Sounds like you need to open a window.
Remember when the 8500 came out? It was the "GeForce 3 killer" and they asked Nvidia about this and the spokesman said effectively, "If they want to compete against the GF3, we welcome that." Why that response? Because they knew that GF4 would lay waste to the 8500.
As someone also mentioned, if Nvidia were to immediately reply with, "Oh yeah? Check these specs!", they'd immediately kill CURRENT sales of GF4s as people waited for the Next Big Thing to come out. Can't stay in business long shooting yourself in the foot like that. They have cards to fill every price point between budget gamer and power-mad maniac.
Nvidia doesn't waste time bragging about how good their blueprints are - they build the damn chips and lay waste to the competition. Remember that company who had their fans constantly nattering about how superior the NEXT chip would be? Each failure brought the hope of a future success for these poor fools. That was 3dfx. ATI is nowhere that stupid, but not being dumb isn't the same as actually being smart, is it?
You guys are applauding ATI for doing what they should be doing - delivery products that are improvements on previous efforts. To act like they've done something special is like throwing a party for someone who didn't run down any pedestrians on the way to work this morning.
It's a game of leap frog and ATI has leapt ahead, no doubt. But, to delude yourselves into thinking that Nvidia isn't sitting on something even better is wishful thinking and destined to bring you heartache in a few months.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
* The latest thing will always be faster than the older thing. Matching what's current is stupid and a waste of time. Proof? Parahelia. Anyone even care about this thing now? Didn't think so.
the only reason we got the GF3TI200 and TI500 cards was due to the Rad8500 being too strong for the GF3. Same for GF4TI4200 and the GF2MX400 card for that matter. If nvidia weren't anticipating Rad9000 then they would never have released the 4200,
To believe that requires us to believe that Nvidia suddenly said, "Oh, sh*t!!! We're getting stomped! We better design and put out something new!!!" These companies plan YEARS in advance and only a fool would imagine that they could design, tape out, fab and ship chips to makers in the couple of months that occured between the 8500 and the Ti200/500s. Which leads to...
Tom's hardware mentioned that some nVidia execs said they weren't impressed with the R300? Sounds like they are downplaying the R300 to cover their ass
Sounds like you need to open a window.
Remember when the 8500 came out? It was the "GeForce 3 killer" and they asked Nvidia about this and the spokesman said effectively, "If they want to compete against the GF3, we welcome that." Why that response? Because they knew that GF4 would lay waste to the 8500.
As someone also mentioned, if Nvidia were to immediately reply with, "Oh yeah? Check these specs!", they'd immediately kill CURRENT sales of GF4s as people waited for the Next Big Thing to come out. Can't stay in business long shooting yourself in the foot like that. They have cards to fill every price point between budget gamer and power-mad maniac.
Nvidia doesn't waste time bragging about how good their blueprints are - they build the damn chips and lay waste to the competition. Remember that company who had their fans constantly nattering about how superior the NEXT chip would be? Each failure brought the hope of a future success for these poor fools. That was 3dfx. ATI is nowhere that stupid, but not being dumb isn't the same as actually being smart, is it?
You guys are applauding ATI for doing what they should be doing - delivery products that are improvements on previous efforts. To act like they've done something special is like throwing a party for someone who didn't run down any pedestrians on the way to work this morning.
It's a game of leap frog and ATI has leapt ahead, no doubt. But, to delude yourselves into thinking that Nvidia isn't sitting on something even better is wishful thinking and destined to bring you heartache in a few months.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
You sound like the villian in cartoons after he gets his butt kicked by the hero.
Let ATi have their day in the sun, lord knows they've earned it.WoW , what a helluva card damn fast for future games , i dont' know why they still use the Q3 and all this old stuff , they sould bench only UT2 and Doom3 , who care about 280 - 350 fps in Q3 .
This card is the future and i doubt that NV30 will be faster , i think and i am 100% sure that cards will be equal , when NV30 will be out the 9700 drivers will be solid and fast and they will do everything to keep cards on par .Look the huge work with the 8500 ,..the thing is a lot older but is on par with TI4200 .
Also , I had no ideea that Nvidia could bewitch so profoundly some guys ,...understand now why they buy 3DFX , ...voodoo baby .
Some guys on forums look like Pinochio when he was transformed in a donkey , ...40 - 50 to 200% (AA) faster in future games and they still argue , ...when Nvidia released a card with such Gap ?
I will buy this card 1 month after release , hopefully the prices will go down a bit then .
Truth is that the card is awesome for future ,....
__________________
This card is the future and i doubt that NV30 will be faster , i think and i am 100% sure that cards will be equal , when NV30 will be out the 9700 drivers will be solid and fast and they will do everything to keep cards on par .Look the huge work with the 8500 ,..the thing is a lot older but is on par with TI4200 .
Also , I had no ideea that Nvidia could bewitch so profoundly some guys ,...understand now why they buy 3DFX , ...voodoo baby .
Some guys on forums look like Pinochio when he was transformed in a donkey , ...40 - 50 to 200% (AA) faster in future games and they still argue , ...when Nvidia released a card with such Gap ?
I will buy this card 1 month after release , hopefully the prices will go down a bit then .
Truth is that the card is awesome for future ,....
__________________
You gotta love competition , PC prices would still be astronomical if it weren't for AMD. I think it is great for all consumers. Good job Intel, AMD, NVidia, and ATI for setting up a competitive environment to keep PC prices affordable!
GPJ
GPJ
Someone please tell me what the scale means!?! They're just a bunch of 0s and 1s. No fps?? What's the deal?? I need to know before I start pulling out my hair for buying a 4600 3 weeks ago.
Originally posted by: daywalker
Originally posted by: heliomphalodon
Sadly, it doesn't seem to support dual DVI outputs for flat-panel displays. That lets me out.
Welcome to the minority
Of course I'm in the minority -- but still, ATI could have given us the dual DVI outputs. There may not be many of us with dual flat-panels, but we've got money to spend...
Perhaps the sure-to-be-upcoming FireGL version of the R300 will give me what I want...
Of course it'll cost more and be optimized differently, but I may be able to live with that.The NV30, even if faster, won't make a bang the way this card has. It would literally have to be
50-100% faster than the 9700, and I think by looking at the specs that this is impossible.
ATI must be glowing.
50-100% faster than the 9700, and I think by looking at the specs that this is impossible.
ATI must be glowing.
the scale, for crying out loud...it says "Normalized to GeForce4 Ti 4600"...this means (and you can see) that the GF4 Ti 4600 is the card compared against...therefore it's always a 1.00 or 100%...the R300 is slated against it in percent...if you were to take the framerate of the GF4 (say 100) and multiply it by the number that the R300 gets (say 1.50), you would get the framerate of the R300 (in the example, 100*1.50 = 150). Ah, the only benefits i've seen from the mind numbing comm college stat class...heh.
There's one thing I've noticed and it's this.
>And for those of you that are wondering whether a 128MB card will be necessary, Doom3 will use at least 80MB of textures
The 9000 Pro is going to be 64Mb so if you're thinking of playing DOOM3 later on you may want to consider this and get a 128Mb card.
>DefRef
Nice post but come on.... what nvidia is really worried about is this;
"According to the latest stats from market watcher Mercury Research, ATI's share of the desktop PC graphics business (in 2002) grew six per cent during the second quarter. By contrast, Nvidia's share fell 13 per cent. Nvidia still dominates the market, thanks to a 53 per cent share, down from 66 per cent in Q1. NPD Intelect reported that ATI graphics boards held a 42% market share in 2001"
Losing Market Share while ATI is slowly gobling it up is what they are worried about. There's also talk that ATI may get the chipset and GPU for the Xbox2. and NV30 or 35 is nowhere in sight. Again if this is correct then by the end of the year ATI may be the sole provider of GPU's for the Cube and Xbox2 and will have the fastest 3D card on the market all that with inceasing market share.
If nvidia does not deliver big, cheap and soon they will continue to lose market share to rivals.
>And for those of you that are wondering whether a 128MB card will be necessary, Doom3 will use at least 80MB of textures
The 9000 Pro is going to be 64Mb so if you're thinking of playing DOOM3 later on you may want to consider this and get a 128Mb card.
>DefRef
Nice post but come on.... what nvidia is really worried about is this;
"According to the latest stats from market watcher Mercury Research, ATI's share of the desktop PC graphics business (in 2002) grew six per cent during the second quarter. By contrast, Nvidia's share fell 13 per cent. Nvidia still dominates the market, thanks to a 53 per cent share, down from 66 per cent in Q1. NPD Intelect reported that ATI graphics boards held a 42% market share in 2001"
Losing Market Share while ATI is slowly gobling it up is what they are worried about. There's also talk that ATI may get the chipset and GPU for the Xbox2. and NV30 or 35 is nowhere in sight. Again if this is correct then by the end of the year ATI may be the sole provider of GPU's for the Cube and Xbox2 and will have the fastest 3D card on the market all that with inceasing market share.
If nvidia does not deliver big, cheap and soon they will continue to lose market share to rivals.
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