Anand reviews the HP TouchPad.

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

when i pick up the 13" macbook pro, vs. the Hp ENVY 14, there's an obvious build quality advantage of the MBP. It's not flimsy, and it's just solid.

I'm guessing it's because of the unibody construction. If apple's MBP 15" was $1k, I'd buy in a heart beat. It'll literally be the BEST 15" laptop around! (performance, battery, and style)

If you ignore the fact that the whole bottom acts as a heatsink and it has horrible heat dissipation (lap scorching) as well as meh graphics cards (except for the 6750, which is decent), the fact it has almost no usable ports (no eSATA, no USB 3, only two USB 2 ports, and Thunderbolt which for now is useless), and displays that while great in quality have okay-ish resolutions, then yeah, it'd be the best 15" laptop around.

The ENVY 14 is not flimsy. Apple's laptops may "feel" quality, but they're certainly not more reliable than ASUS and now Lenovo, especially their ThinkPad line. HP is definitely behind in this metric, though.

As for style, that's something subjective.

Oh, and I was a Mac user for three years, before you play the "it's just because you've never used a Mac" line.

 

[Bateluer]

i wanted to get one of those hp e350's as well but im never been to bb when they were in stock and they dont have a demo out. does it work well/are there any major bugs/has it every crashed on you?

There's a pretty big thread in General Hardware or SFF/Notebooks. Its definitely a netbook, but much faster than the Atom netbooks, in the regard that it can actually run Windows without chugging like a turtle. Plays most 720p content well, and some 1080p content decently. And I've done an array of light gaming on it, mostly older games, but its always performed decently and stably. I did a clean wipe of the HP installed junk though.

HP cut corners on the screen though, but its an acceptable compromise on a 400 dollar laptop.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Sorry, but in terms of feel and build quality, everything feels like crap compared to a MBP. If someone made a notebook that could compare, for less $$, I'd buy it.

Feel=subjective.

As for build quality, ThinkPads are either comparable or better.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

There's a pretty big thread in General Hardware or SFF/Notebooks. Its definitely a netbook, but much faster than the Atom netbooks, in the regard that it can actually run Windows without chugging like a turtle. Plays most 720p content well, and some 1080p content decently. And I've done an array of light gaming on it, mostly older games, but its always performed decently and stably. I did a clean wipe of the HP installed junk though.

HP cut corners on the screen though, but its an acceptable compromise on a 400 dollar laptop.

It's an entry-level ultra-portable. Just sayin'

Zacate is for ultra-portables; Ontario is for netbooks.

 

[Tristicus]

Sorry, but in terms of feel and build quality, everything feels like crap compared to a MBP. If someone made a notebook that could compare, for less $$, I'd buy it.

I cannot see any bias in your posts at all.

 

[Bateluer]

It's an entry-level ultra-portable. Just sayin'

Zacate is for ultra-portables; Ontario is for netbooks.

Pretty much, but its better than its competitors.

 

[MagickMan]

I cannot see any bias in your posts at all.

Or yours. I own PCs and Macs (5 PCs, 2 Macs), I'm better able to judge these matters than you are.

Feel isn't subjective, place a 15" MBP in anyone's hands and then do the same with any other notebook from another maker that's in the same price range, a large majority will say the MBP is the better quality machine. It has better fit and finish, and just a better all-around build. And, no, the plasticky feel of the Thinkpads doesn't compare. Don't get me wrong, I believe Thinkpads are great PC notebooks, but they're still not in the same class.

Now, if you think I'm still full of shit, you can throw the same arguments at Anand, he feels the same way I do. Not that he would actually know anything about notebooks...

 

[Tristicus]

Or yours. I own PCs and Macs (5 PCs, 2 Macs), I'm better able to judge these matters than you are.

Feel isn't subjective, place a 15" MBP in anyone's hands and then do the same with any other notebook from another maker that's in the same price range, a large majority will say the MBP is the better quality machine. It has better fit and finish, and just a better all-around build. And, no, the plasticky feel of the Thinkpads doesn't compare. Don't get me wrong, I believe Thinkpads are great PC notebooks, but they're still not in the same class.

Now, if you think I'm still full of shit, you can throw the same arguments at Anand, he feels the same way I do. Not that he would actually know anything about notebooks...

Feel isn't subjective? Rofl, that just shows how idiotic your argument is right there. I don't give a shit what Anand feels, he has opinions and I have opinions and you have opinions, and that is the beauty of it, we all have opinions. However your opinions just sound like all the recycled trash fanboys spit daily just to praise their precious Stevie, and it gets old.

 

[MagickMan]

Feel isn't subjective? Rofl, that just shows how idiotic your argument is right there. I don't give a shit what Anand feels, he has opinions and I have opinions and you have opinions, and that is the beauty of it, we all have opinions. However your opinions just sound like all the recycled trash fanboys spit daily just to praise their precious Stevie, and it gets old.

Waa? Want a hanky? Doesn't change the fact (yes, it's a fact) that Apple just knows how to design a more solid, better-engineered notebook. Sure, there are a great many that have better/faster specs, but none that equal them in polish and quality.

Want to see idiotic? Look at the people who have never even used an Apple computer for any appreciable period of time, but somehow they still hate Macs. :hmm:

 

[Tristicus]

Waa? Want a hanky? Doesn't change the fact (yes, it's a fact) that Apple just knows how to design a more solid, better-engineered notebook. Sure, there are a great many that have better/faster specs, but none that equal them in polish and quality.

Want to see idiotic? Look at the people who have never even used an Apple computer for any appreciable period of time, but somehow they still hate Macs. :hmm:

And typical Apple user once again. They don't design anything better, and certainly doesn't warrant the retarded price tag it comes with. Ever felt a Sony laptop? Apparently not. They are just as solid as your precious little MBP, if not more. Oh, and about $1.5k less.

Go into BB and try this laptop: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...ptop&cp=1&lp=1

Then tell me your precious MBP is worth so much more because it has the Apple label on it.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Pretty much, but its better than its competitors.

At its current price, definitely. The base model has great specs for a laptop that costs so little and has a small chassis.

 

[MagickMan]

And typical Apple user once again. They don't design anything better, and certainly doesn't warrant the retarded price tag it comes with. Ever felt a Sony laptop? Apparently not. They are just as solid as your precious little MBP, if not more. Oh, and about $1.5k less.

Go into BB and try this laptop: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...ptop&cp=1&lp=1

Then tell me your precious MBP is worth so much more because it has the Apple label on it.

and typical Apple bigot, once again. No, a Vaio isn't as solid, I've owned two. They weren't bad machines, about the same as an equally priced Dell. Yes, the MBP is worth it, but not because of the label. Like I said before, if someone made a PC notebook that had the feel, build quality, and fit/finish of a MBP, I'd buy it. They don't.

Keep slinging the Apple hate, though. Those of us who actively use PCs and Macs all the time know it for what it is, ignorance.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Waa? Want a hanky? Doesn't change the fact (yes, it's a fact) that Apple just knows how to design a more solid, better-engineered notebook. Sure, there are a great many that have better/faster specs, but none that equal them in polish and quality.

Want to see idiotic? Look at the people who have never even used an Apple computer for any appreciable period of time, but somehow they still hate Macs. :hmm:

Except I used a Mac from 2007-2010 and decided to sell it since the specs were never great given what it costed. Decided to buy an ASUS laptop instead and couldn't be happier. Macs are idiotically priced no matter how you look at it. You're paying a huge markup and you're not getting higher quality. That is, unless the only thing you're using as a comparison is HP. Even then, their Prosumer and Business/Enterprise laptops are good.

As far as build quality goes, ThinkPads are better.

You're making typical fanboy statements.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

and typical Apple bigot, once again. No, a Vaio isn't as solid, I've owned two. They weren't bad machines, about the same as an equally priced Dell. Yes, the MBP is worth it, but not because of the label. Like I said before, if someone made a PC notebook that had the feel, build quality, and fit/finish of a MBP, I'd buy it. They don't.

Keep slinging the Apple hate, though. Those of us who actively use PCs and Macs all the time know it for what it is, ignorance.

Funny, I was just about the say the same thing but against Apple. No, you're paying for a brand and for a cool factor. Not because it has better hardware. Style is subjective, so you should stop using that as an argument.

No, the MBP is not worth it; not at its current price.

 

[Tristicus]

and typical Apple bigot, once again. No, a Vaio isn't as solid, I've owned two. They weren't bad machines, about the same as an equally priced Dell. Yes, the MBP is worth it, but not because of the label. Like I said before, if someone made a PC notebook that had the feel, build quality, and fit/finish of a MBP, I'd buy it. They don't.

Keep slinging the Apple hate, though. Those of us who actively use PCs and Macs all the time know it for what it is, ignorance.

Vaio is as solid, if not more. Oh, but you want to call solid? Run over a Macbook then run over an IBM made ThinkPad and tell me which is solid. The cost is not worth it, if you pay that you're a damn sheep, and that is it. My grandfather owns both a Macbook and a Macbook Pro and swears by them. I've used both of them enough to form an opinion, and play with the iPad on at the very least a weekly basis, and it is nothing to write home about (the hardware). And I sold a MBP the other night, because a guy I know needed it for school. He paid $1500 for a 15" with an i7 and 4gb of RAM. No Blu-ray player, nothing special. Could have grabbed that Sony for less, with a larger (higher resolution) screen, Blu-ray player, more RAM, and more HDD space, and a better OS (subjective, obviously, but probably not to you).

Keep arguing your same invalid point though, I've got another hour or so and I'll gladly keep offering posts up after work tomorrow. Apple fanboys are some of the most bullheaded people I've come in contact with.

Funny, I was just about the say the same thing but against Apple. No, you're paying for a brand and for a cool factor. Not because it has better hardware. Style is subjective, so you should stop using that as an argument.

No, the MBP is not worth it; not at it's current price.

Sure. Drop the price a grand and maybe you'll have a valid argument. Until then, keep dreaming MagickMan.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Or yours. I own PCs and Macs (5 PCs, 2 Macs), I'm better able to judge these matters than you are.

Feel isn't subjective, place a 15" MBP in anyone's hands and then do the same with any other notebook from another maker that's in the same price range, a large majority will say the MBP is the better quality machine. It has better fit and finish, and just a better all-around build. And, no, the plasticky feel of the Thinkpads doesn't compare. Don't get me wrong, I believe Thinkpads are great PC notebooks, but they're still not in the same class.

Now, if you think I'm still full of shit, you can throw the same arguments at Anand, he feels the same way I do. Not that he would actually know anything about notebooks...

Appeal to the majority.

 

[finbarqs]

funny, how an "Anand Reviews the HP touchpad" becomes an Apple Vs. The World argument. I don't own 1 single apple product. Not one Ipod, not one ipad, nor an iPhone. I don't care if Apple has the world by the balls (let's face it they kind of do -- more on this later) but I can appreciate a well built product.

We'll break this down into 3 different types of people:
1)Hardcore Computer users (overclockers, gamers, people who want things EXACTLY the way they want it--Incidentally these people also LOVE Android)

2)Casual Computer users (People who just needs something that works, doesn't really know their way around a computer -- sometimes, they don't even want to touch a computer... iOS would confuse some of these people)

3)People who are in the middle (Unfortunately, there are fewer of these people than we can expect)

Unfortunately, we live in a world where computers are no longer a luxury, but a necessity. Wind the clocks back 20 years ago, even 15... Maybe 10... Nah... 15. Computers were a complete luxury. If you have a computer, you had the advantage over timmy in your middle school. Everything was almost hand written, and teachers cringed if you had messy writing.

Today, whether we like it or not, we're thrown into a world that operates on some form of a computer. The people who had the advantage over Timmy most likely becomes our hardcore computer operators. And everyone else just falls into the casual user.

What does this have anything to do with this topic (or more recently, the Apple Vs. the World discussion)? Apple understands the separation of the computer user. It knows that computers are a necessity these days. It understands that the majority of the world are complete idiots when it comes to computing. They also understand that they are seriously wounded by the monstrous growing PC market. So what do they do? They go after the market where it is most grey: The casual users. These users know more about Prada and Ferrari than they do about Motorola and Intel. Frankly, they don't care who's Michael Motorola or who's George Intel.

So here we are, in the raging fire of "build quality". To the Hardcore Computer User, Build quality has more weight on performance. They know that an Intel Processor can cost you $200. They know that RAM really costs 50 bucks for 8 gigs. They care about these things. They take one look at Apple and laugh. "Core 2 Duo? Are You F#@$#! serious?" So the only thing you have to show for paying $1500 bucks is an Arguably better chassis, better battery life (this is actually proven), and a decent screen? (Apple does have one of the best laptop TN screens... but lacking in the resolution dept)

The casual user would be "i7? wtf is that? core 2 duo? wtf??? Wow this computer feels nice. It works fast. Beautiful screen! WTF? The battery is out of this world!!! This magnetic inductive charger is the tits!!" While the hardcore user would be scoffing at this thinking "What a tool. He just paid $1500 for a core 2 duo, and 2 GB of RAM, and 160GB HDD. My Asus laptop will MURDER the MBP!!!"

So that's what we have here. Difference of build quality, from 2 different minds. Oh yeah the 3 person will appreciate apple's build quality, but wish it was done in a PC spec. They can see the superiority of Apple's products, but they are not stupid and know that Apple is just milking people for money. In all actuality, they don't really matter. Apple isn't going after them just yet... Though they're starting to turn there heads slightly... for a premium.

And that's what Apple has on the casual users: The price is justified because you're paying for a Channel computer as opposed to your typical JC Penny PC's. You're getting a Mercedes rather than a Toyota. And that's what they have society believing. We've all read it. People will SELL THEIR KIDNEY'S for an iPad in CHINA! Yet china, has a bunch of manufacturers making tablets, yet everyone STILL want the iPad! In Asian countries (mostly china and Taiwan) having an Apple product is a status symbol. This really shows how Apple REALLY have the world by the balls. In fact, I'm pretty certain they've influenced Microsoft's Windows 8 platform. It use to be Apple's slogan to "think different". Now Microsoft is taking that philosophy and running away with it with their Metro UI throughout their platforms. WP7, Windows 8 are almost a complete departure from the traditional icon grid that we've grown accustomed to in touchscreen smart phones.

My opinion: Apple has build quality because they know that Aluminum FEELS higher quality than plastic. They know the ruggedness of a unibody platform as opposed piecing pieces together. They also know that people will see vibrancy, color accuracy, contrast, and better viewing angles, over screen resolution. I have a LED back lit 1600x900 15" screen. I have a Clevo Laptop with a 80GB SSD G2 in it. It's okay, but it's no where near the mbp.

My perfect laptop would be the 13" MBP, that has a dedicated 6750. Heck, i'll settle for Nvidia 525M. And a Blu Ray slot loading drive. But it doesn't exist.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

funny, how an "Anand Reviews the HP touchpad" becomes an Apple Vs. The World argument. I don't own 1 single apple product. Not one Ipod, not one ipad, nor an iPhone. I don't care if Apple has the world by the balls (let's face it they kind of do -- more on this later) but I can appreciate a well built product.

We'll break this down into 3 different types of people:
1)Hardcore Computer users (overclockers, gamers, people who want things EXACTLY the way they want it--Incidentally these people also LOVE Android)

2)Casual Computer users (People who just needs something that works, doesn't really know their way around a computer -- sometimes, they don't even want to touch a computer... iOS would confuse some of these people)

3)People who are in the middle (Unfortunately, there are fewer of these people than we can expect)

Unfortunately, we live in a world where computers are no longer a luxury, but a necessity. Wind the clocks back 20 years ago, even 15... Maybe 10... Nah... 15. Computers were a complete luxury. If you have a computer, you had the advantage over timmy in your middle school. Everything was almost hand written, and teachers cringed if you had messy writing.

Today, whether we like it or not, we're thrown into a world that operates on some form of a computer. The people who had the advantage over Timmy most likely becomes our hardcore computer operators. And everyone else just falls into the casual user.

What does this have anything to do with this topic (or more recently, the Apple Vs. the World discussion)? Apple understands the separation of the computer user. It knows that computers are a necessity these days. It understands that the majority of the world are complete idiots when it comes to computing. They also understand that they are seriously wounded by the monstrous growing PC market. So what do they do? They go after the market where it is most grey: The casual users. These users know more about Prada and Ferrari than they do about Motorola and Intel. Frankly, they don't care who's Michael Motorola or who's George Intel.

So here we are, in the raging fire of "build quality". To the Hardcore Computer User, Build quality has more weight on performance. They know that an Intel Processor can cost you $200. They know that RAM really costs 50 bucks for 8 gigs. They care about these things. They take one look at Apple and laugh. "Core 2 Duo? Are You F#@$#! serious?" So the only thing you have to show for paying $1500 bucks is an Arguably better chassis, better battery life (this is actually proven), and a decent screen? (Apple does have one of the best laptop TN screens... but lacking in the resolution dept)

The casual user would be "i7? wtf is that? core 2 duo? wtf??? Wow this computer feels nice. It works fast. Beautiful screen! WTF? The battery is out of this world!!! This magnetic inductive charger is the tits!!" While the hardcore user would be scoffing at this thinking "What a tool. He just paid $1500 for a core 2 duo, and 2 GB of RAM, and 160GB HDD. My Asus laptop will MURDER the MBP!!!"

So that's what we have here. Difference of build quality, from 2 different minds. Oh yeah the 3 person will appreciate apple's build quality, but wish it was done in a PC spec. They can see the superiority of Apple's products, but they are not stupid and know that Apple is just milking people for money. In all actuality, they don't really matter. Apple isn't going after them just yet... Though they're starting to turn there heads slightly...

My opinion: Apple has build quality because they know that Aluminum FEELS higher quality than plastic. They know the ruggedness of a unibody platform as opposed piecing pieces together. They also know that people will see vibrancy, color accuracy, contrast, and better viewing angles, over screen resolution. I have a LED back lit 1600x900 15" screen. I have a Clevo Laptop with a 80GB SSD G2 in it. It's okay, but it's no where near the mbp.

My perfect laptop would be the 13" MBP, that has a dedicated 6750. Heck, i'll settle for Nvidia 525M. And a Blu Ray slot loading drive. But it doesn't exist.

This would've been a good argument in 2006. Today, ehh, not so much. There's tons of laptops made with different types of metal with much better specs than MBPs coming out, and many laptops can match Apple's when it comes to battery life.

If you'd care so much about quality and battery life you'd just buy a ThinkPad instead, to be honest. That leaves us with one thing: it looks cool, it works cool, and it's a status symbol. That's the main reason why most people buy Macs in the end. Looking back now I feel so ripped off...

People buying something based on how it "feels", even though it's subjective and not actually higher quality, are complete morons. Manufacturers know most consumers were voicing their concerns over build quality some years ago, so now they stepped up to the plate.

 

[s44]

we'll see how it stacks up against apple's unibody structure... that feels completely SOLID. It's sad that Apple's the only company that's really giving people good build quality these days...

You realize that the iPhone 4 is pretty much the easiest phone to break these days, right?

Apple is all about the perception of quality. Actual quality is incidental or (as in this case) actually absent.

 

[finbarqs]

This would've been a good argument in 2006. Today, ehh, not so much. There's tons of laptops made with different types of metal with much better specs than MBPs coming out, and many laptops can match Apple's when it comes to battery life.

If you'd care so much about quality and battery life you'd just buy a ThinkPad instead, to be honest. That leaves us with one thing: it looks cool, it works cool, and it's a status symbol. That's the main reason why most people buy Macs in the end. Looking back now I feel so ripped off...

People buying something based on how it "feels", even though it's subjective and not actually higher quality, are complete morons. Manufacturers know most consumers were voicing their concerns over build quality some years ago, so now they stepped up to the plate.

I would really want to try out PC's best laptop that has a subjectively better feel than the MBP. I don't have a MBP, because frankly, it's too expensive. My brother has one, friend, and girlfriend's dad. Plus, it's very easy to get access to one. You said the thinkpad is probably the best built laptop? which model? I'll try one out in person.

 

[finbarqs]

You realize that the iPhone 4 is pretty much the easiest phone to break these days, right?

Apple is all about the perception of quality. Actual quality is incidental or (as in this case) actually absent.

But it also feels like the most expensive phone in my hand. Sure, apple threw on glass on both rear and front, but it feels quality. Not saying it's the most durable, but it feels the most high quality. Shoot... Steel would be more durable, plastic even!

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I would really want to try out PC's best laptop that has a subjectively better feel than the MBP. I don't have a MBP, because frankly, it's too expensive. My brother has one, friend, and girlfriend's dad. Plus, it's very easy to get access to one. You said the thinkpad is probably the best built laptop? which model? I'll try one out in person.

Again, feel is subjective, but if you're looking for serious build quality with good weight (only 4.8 pounds), great battery life (7 hours on normal usage), and a good sized chassis, the ThinkPad T420 is a better alternative to the MacBook Pro 13". One thing I like is you have the option of going for a 1600x900 display.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

But it also feels like the most expensive phone in my hand. Sure, apple threw on glass on both rear and front, but it feels quality. Not saying it's the most durable, but it feels the most high quality. Shoot... Steel would be more durable, plastic even!

Eh. That's the problem. It feels quality, but in reality it's not. It's more perceived quality combined with some actual quality; that's what I see Apple do.

The ThinkPad T420 has a built-in rollcage and is made of magnesium alloy. It can withstand being run over by a car. That alone should tell you everything.

 

[MagickMan]

Except I used a Mac from 2007-2010 and decided to sell it since the specs were never great given what it costed. Decided to buy an ASUS laptop instead and couldn't be happier. Macs are idiotically priced no matter how you look at it. You're paying a huge markup and you're not getting higher quality. That is, unless the only thing you're using as a comparison is HP. Even then, their Prosumer and Business/Enterprise laptops are good.

As far as build quality goes, ThinkPads are better.

You're making typical fanboy statements.

Yes, it is higher quality and your opinions aren't any better than anyone else's. However, I'll bow to the majority of reviewers and professionals, and my own experience, and state that the MBP is the highest quality notebook on the market. In this case, the majority is right. You haven't offered credible facts to hold up your position, just conjecture.

"It's still the industry standard in terms of design and quality..."

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/04/macbook-pro-review-early-2011/

Just because you guys have a bee in your ass over Apple doesn't mean that people who appreciate Apple's designs and quality are wrong. As for the "value", I'll spend $400 more for a MBP over a Thinkpad. I don't think that's a lot of $$$ for something that I'll use every day for work, my job reimburses me for 50% of the cost anyway. It's well worth it for a premium machine that can easily jump back and forth between OS X and Win7.

However, given how often I drive over my notebook, gosh it seems like that happens every day, maybe I should look into a Thinkpad. :hmm: The truth is, the only thing that marginally survived on the Thinkpad after the guy ran it over was the HDD. You want cheaper, buy cheaper, there's no crime in that, but don't rip on a product just because you hate the company.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I would really want to try out PC's best laptop that has a subjectively better feel than the MBP. I don't have a MBP, because frankly, it's too expensive. My brother has one, friend, and girlfriend's dad. Plus, it's very easy to get access to one. You said the thinkpad is probably the best built laptop? which model? I'll try one out in person.

Give the Thinkpad X220 a try. It has better battery life than a MBP 13, a better screen (an IPS panel while the MBP is a TN), and is also lighter.