An interesting critique of America discussed on AM radio tonight:

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Open Letter to America from a Canadian

by W.R. McDougall
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Dear America:

And so it has come to this. Your once-great nation has fallen into madness, an affliction of mass denial that brings shivers up the spines of millions outside your borders. Yours is a sick nation. But most of you carry on as though nothing at all is the matter.

Dark, evil operations run rampant in the secret corners of your government institutions. A dubiously constituted government pursues war at will anywhere on earth, discussing nuclear options that become points for cheerful chatter over lunch. Your military and intelligence agencies employ terrorist tactics around the globe even as they insist that such tactics are necessary in the fight against terrorism.

You have become a nation of monsters, America. Hypocrites. Murderers. Fools.

Your constitution is a shambles thanks to "national security" measures resulting from what might well be U.S.-government-sanctioned terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington D.C., covert provocations designed to justify a malevolent, poisonous, oil-based military economy.

Never mind that earth-friendly technology already exists to once and for all end dependence on oil, coal and nuclear energy from huge, out-of-control utilities and corporations. You would rather pay through the nose for your insecure comforts, wouldn't you America, and make others pay with their blood.

At the same time, you stand by as the Israelis' secular Zionists--whom you support through the supply of arms and money--slaughter untold numbers of innocents in the West Bank, then blame the Palestinians for bringing the terror upon themselves. (True, there are abominable Arab suicide bombers in Israel's midst. But are they not driven to madness and desperation by your infernal support of international terrorist politics?)

As I write these words, you support a nation run by a convicted murderer by the name of Ariel Sharon who with impunity is carrying out war crimes as cruel and horrendous as those of other sadistic tyrants in history. And you say, in your utter cynicism, 'When will these Palestinians bring this war to an end?'

You recklessly wage combat on other fronts, too. At home, your War on Drugs is a disastrous 30-year folly--a gigantic con game designed to benefit lethal cartels, corrupt politicians and menacing intelligence agencies across the planet.....

With your government's support, crooked multinationals like Monsanto buy up the world's water supplies, and take possession of the world's vegetation through Frankenstein technology already known to cause illness.

Does the FDA care about any of this? It does not. It has long been on the bandwagon to foist genetically altered food on the Guinea Pigs of the country--including every man, woman and child on America's increasingly toxic soil.

You are a nation of suckers, America, to be bled dry of your hard-earned pay through outrageous bank schemes, Wall Street rip-offs and fake government budget grabs. Your Pentagon cannot account for trillions in lost dollars.

Does this bother you? Not in the least.

Your whole economy is controlled by what is for the most part ravenous, international private banking interests in the form of The Federal Reserve, which with your government's consent leads you down the garden path to certain financial ruin thanks to a national debt you will never be able to repay.

How is it that private banks are responsible for issuing your currency? How is it that they are allowed to charge ridiculous interest rates on what they issue? By decree, this was supposed to be the responsibility of your government, which could create its own currency without charging interest.

Do you realize your congress could dismiss these banks in an instant if it so wished? But don't ever count on it. More important matters are pressing. The upcoming election needs investment.

These very same money men are the ones who, through unmonitored and unrepresentative world committees, are driving countries like Argentina into hopeless debt and social upheaval. These greedy overlords are creating strife and suffering on a scale too tragic for words in nation after nation. Just look at Africa.

They've got their sights on America, now, too; disrupting economic stability through so-called free trade initiatives and provisions for special favors and the endless flow of cash to corporate monstrosities like Enron.

Amid all this, where are those who are supposed to represent your interests, America? For the most part, your congressional representatives are nothing but swine gathering at the corporate troughs. Your president is a white-collar thug, a hypocrite who through his actions celebrates war, repression and greed even as he gives lip service to peace, freedom and justice.

George W. Bush deceives you daily, the war monger hiding behind a phony patriotism. He is an Enron buddy boy, a spoiled child lying in his teeth about his past and current dirty deeds.

Does he care about you America? Hardly. This is altogether obvious to those outside your borders who are politically aware and awake to the world around them.

You were never concerned about the disgraceful practices of George's ruthless father, either, a Bin-Laden cohort and friend to criminals and killers in global drug, oil and terrorist enterprises. Iran. Vietnam. El Salvador. Chile. Guatemala. Iraq. And on and on. The never-ending bully-boy story of blood, guns, drugs and money.

Does any of this matter? No, it's simply time to eat.

Go get your ten-billionth burger, America. Fatten your already fat asses with bacteria-and-hormone-ridden meat and do nothing as you sit stupefied before your mind-numbing television sets awaiting the next episode of sad families being humiliated on "Cops."

Few among you are the least bit concerned that no real investigation of 911 has taken place, that no serious investigation of the anthrax attacks is moving forward, that no authentic investigation of Enron, or the murder of one of its top executives, is underway.

How many of you give the slightest damn about the totalitarian measures your government is taking to keep its secret meetings, grubby files and treasonous activities from your eyes?....

When did you stop caring, America? Was it after your own FBI and intelligence agencies plotted the murder of President John F. Kennedy? Or is this just the raving lunacy of the conspiracy nut? What does your gut tell you, America? Is something a little amiss here?

Forget about it. Have some Pepto-Bismol.

Today, in futility, your own government goes to court against itself for information you are entitled to by law. But this is hardly deemed vital news in the community. It is a fleeting reference in an electronic sea of meaningless banter. For proof, just look to all the spineless wimps who constitute your mainstream news media.

Today, you excoriate, ridicule and ostracize the brave and true among you. Your best investigative journalists are fired from their jobs and ignored. Congress's few courageous souls are laughed at and dismissed out of hand as crackpots. The most honest and conscientious political leader in the country, Ralph Nader, is a powerless, near-invisible curiosity easily side-lined by hired goons.

America, you are a goddamn shame.

What law matters now in your despicable state? What justice? What truth?

When will you wake up?

If you had your druthers, you would right now gather your courage, take to the streets and march on Washington D.C in the millions. But I know you will do no such thing. The vast majority of you are spiritually, emotionally and intellectually dead.

As I write these words, I can only imagine what additional horrors your shadow government might be planning in what will surely be an attempt to justify militarism and totalitarianism on a universal scale. A nuclear explosion in one of your cities, perhaps? A massive bio-chemical attack?

Or perhaps it will be some Arab terrorist who finally commits the terrible deed, his last thought before death being the promises you made to him before you killed his family.
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Mr. McDougall originally wrote this letter to the Washington Post, but that paper has not yet printed it.

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This was from a friendly country. I wonder what our enemies are thinking. Gosh
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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What is AM radio ? :confused: :confused: :confused:



(I know what AM radio is. It's just that I haven't listened to AM for probably 15 years. If I've ever been to the AM bands during the last 15 years, it's probably because I hit the button by accident in my car and quickly placed it back on FM or the CD that I was listening to.)
 

UltraQuiet

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Sep 22, 2001
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Already posted here - Turd. There may be one or two valid points however there's so much other crap it completely obscures them.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Don't know Czar, I checked the newest post for it and didn't see anything so I posted.

wje, you might enjoy a sensory deprivation tank.

Sorry, you are right Czar. You can click Sohmer's (edit) link for the proper place to reply.

Interesting how people apparently seem to think one must agree with every thing one quotes. :D
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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wje, you might enjoy a sensory deprivation tank.
No, actually, I have found plenty to listen to on the FM side - including several talk-radio stations along with NPR. :) :)
 

ToBeMe

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Jun 21, 2000
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Repost and McDougall makes a few good points BUT......................he muddles those among so much BS and drivell, he is as meaningless and corrupt as those he speaks out against! The US has found itself in similar positions in the past.........................................it may take some time but rest assured, we will come out of this.

Tell me Beam...................what would your solution be since it is obvious you side with his thoughts...............Nader????? Gore????? A complete "cleansing"????? How would this work without further damaging the US and possibley leading to bloodshed amongst ourselves????? Is that what you are advocating????
 

UltraQuiet

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Sep 22, 2001
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I was referring to the article as the turd Moonie, not you. Nor did I make any judgements on your concurence or disagreement witht the article. Sorry if something else was indicated, it was not intentional.


Dave
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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ToBeMe, I don't know if you saw my edit that I find it interesting that people assume I agree with what I quote. That doesn't seem obvious to me at all. But anyway, what would I do? You and DaveSohmer have something in common: 'The guy makes a few good points but...' One thing I would do is leave open the possibility that if somebody sees one thing I can see he may see some other things I can't see. Part of the critique, I think, was that we Americans lack introspection and critical self analysis, that we are programed to accept. Could it be?
 

UltraQuiet

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Sep 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
ToBeMe, I don't know if you saw my edit that I find it interesting that people assume I agree with what I quote. That doesn't seem obvious to me at all. But anyway, what would I do? You and DaveSohmer have something in common: 'The guy makes a few good points but...' One thing I would do is leave open the possibility that if somebody sees one thing I can see he may see some other things I can't see. Part of the critique, I think, was that we Americans lack introspection and critical self analysis, that we are programed to accept. Could it be?


If he wants a serious discussion then he can leave out the lies, cheap shots and conspiracy theories otherwise I will just dismiss it out of hand. That doesn't mean I lack introspection or the ability to self analyze. It just means my time is valuable and I won't waste it on crackpots that are just looking for a reaction, not a serious debate. I've already given this more attention than it deserves.

Dave
 

ToBeMe

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Jun 21, 2000
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
ToBeMe, I don't know if you saw my edit that I find it interesting that people assume I agree with what I quote. That doesn't seem obvious to me at all. But anyway, what would I do? You and DaveSohmer have something in common: 'The guy makes a few good points but...' One thing I would do is leave open the possibility that if somebody sees one thing I can see he may see some other things I can't see. Part of the critique, I think, was that we Americans lack introspection and critical self analysis, that we are programed to accept. Could it be?
No...........must have been writing while you were editing!;)

I can see your point, but, I still disagree.........I have no problem taking and accepting the insight of "outsiders", but, I still consider much of what he says to be no more than drivel............he does not substanciate points, simply makes assumtions. Bashing the US is the "In" thing to do right now just has it has been at several periods in the past and it appears Mr. McDougall figured he should take his shots now while it is fashionable. His bias is very apparent and it seems he has an ax to grind...............he is quick to tell the US how terrible things are and how bad our country is.................but offers no viable solution.............only sarcasim. It's almost as if he is baiting certain people here in the US to start a "coup" which he knows would throw us into much worse trouble and possibly bring about bloodshed among our own people. What are his motives in writing such a piece if not that?????;)

 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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KGO Ray T. read this dribble over the air tonight..typical default "blame America" plug in rhetoric. Lots of "grey haired pony tail" legacy diatribe.
 

Moonbeam

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Thanks Dave, I'm very pleased to hear that. It's not something I haven't been called before or maybe even occassionally deserve, and I did consider the possibility that you possibly could mean the article, because it seemed a bit out of character and less than I've come to expect from you. I tried to reply humorously and good naturedly with an equally vague retort which I shall not edit for amgiquity. :D
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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IGBT, that's were I heard the article. I just did a search for the guy's name and found it.

Good points, ToBeMe. One of the things I felt was that you and Dave were dismissing him without addressing any of the issues either. The arthor does the same thing to be sure. I posted because I felt that we need to look at these issues ourselves. i understand a bit of what he said, the drug thing and the unelected president thing and more, but Idon't understand the money thing or the baks printing money criticism as well. I also see this as an indication that we aren't doing too good selling our way of live. I do think we are too complacent and content with our attitudes. Sometimes a hot poker has its point. :D

We change at the ballot box, not by violence. I don't see anything there to imply differently.
 

ToBeMe

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Jun 21, 2000
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We change at the ballot box, not by violence. I don't see anything there to imply differently.
I was referring to the following for one instance among others...................

If you had your druthers, you would right now gather your courage, take to the streets and march on Washington D.C in the millions. But I know you will do no such thing. The vast majority of you are spiritually, emotionally and intellectually dead.
Some people whom listen to these types of broadcasts and publication may well take that as a challenge and the added insults at the end only serve to fuel the fire....................I'm not saying most people would, but, in some instances it only takes a few redicals to start something which could easily spiral out of control..............
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
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This was from a friendly country. I wonder what our enemies are thinking. Gosh
Moonie, this was from one guy who sees black helicopters and little green men, not from a friendly country.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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I've listened to RayT.on KGO for many years and since GW Bush was elected and 9-11 occured Ray has been sounding hysterical and in a knot. His discussion is no longer wide ranging and is now focused on GW Bush. What happened to Ray??
 

rbhawcroft

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May 16, 2002
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Thanks Dave, I'm very pleased to hear that. It's not something I haven't been called before or maybe even occassionally deserve, and I did consider the possibility that you possibly could mean the article, because it seemed a bit out of character and less than I've come to expect from you. I tried to reply humorously and good naturedly with an equally vague retort which I shall not edit for amgiquity. :D

doesnt your avatar sit on turn when its being cultivated?
 

rbhawcroft

Senior member
May 16, 2002
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Originally posted by: jjones
This was from a friendly country. I wonder what our enemies are thinking. Gosh
Moonie, this was from one guy who sees black helicopters and little green men, not from a friendly country.

whats with the change of face jj? its suits you btw.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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IGBT, Ray like the rest of us, got raped when Bush stole the election. It was the most colossal theft conceivable, the biggest subversion of democracy possible. Bush and Co. subverted the will of the people. There can't be a bigger assault on the US than stealing it's government, loosing an election and taking power. The results are a disaster, or maybe just a joke. :D

rb, yup, I understood what you meant misspelling and all.
 

JoeBaD

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May 24, 2000
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If I may troll a bit here.

Moonbeam, you remain an arsehole.

Get over the election. Bush won. He stole nothing. You're an idiot. Do you talk to yourself in the mirror for amusement?

 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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JoeBaD, no problem, jump right in. :D I been talking to myself in the mirror since I was a kid. It's a ton of fun. I might even be an idiot, but you are certainly the one who is igonrant. I'm tired of posting the proof that Bush lost the popular vote in the US AND in Florida. It came out about sept 11 01 and got burried. I'm right, you're wrong, get over it. :D
 

ToBeMe

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Jun 21, 2000
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It came out about sept 11 01 and got burried.
If you don't mind................please post the links which state that Bush lost the election. I mean 5 independent recounts were conducted post election and out of those 5 recounts, 4 stated Bush had clearly won. One of those was even conducted by a group from outside the US. The only one which showed Bush losing Florida claimed he lost by 11 votes...............Come on now Beamer, whatch what you use as an excuse................the popular vote does not determine the winner for very good reasons. if it did, the major cities could decide every national election regardless of what the majority wanted demographicly. next time, it could be your candidate winning the electoral and not the popular..................what then?;)
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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Or is this just the raving lunacy of the conspiracy nut?
Well at least the guy isn't so far-flung off the deep end that his delusions aren't interrupted by fleeting moments of honest self-reflection. heh
IGBT, Ray like the rest of us, got raped when Bush stole the election. It was the most colossal theft conceivable, the biggest subversion of democracy possible. Bush and Co. subverted the will of the people. There can't be a bigger assault on the US than stealing it's government, loosing an election and taking power. The results are a disaster, or maybe just a joke. I'm tired of posting the proof that Bush lost the popular vote in the US AND in Florida.
Bush lost the popular vote nationally, but not in Florida, which is what decided the election. How many news agencies and accounting firms must undertake an accounting of the votes and show that Bush did in fact get more votes in Florida, however slim the margin may have been, before you'll admit it?

If 50 accounting firms consecutively certify that Bush won more votes, and one comes along 30 years from now and says Gore got three more votes, are you saying that you would seize upon the results of one accounting firm to the exclusion of the other 50? Wouldn't you say that makes you the antithesis of the "truth lover" you seem to love purporting yourself to be?

Further, has anyone ever explained the electoral system to you? If not, I'd be happy to break-out one of my old elementary school books as a refresher and explain it to you.