An example of how the media needs to be in politics

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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IMO part of the reason we're (US/UK) in this fix is because a lot of news sources these days are feigning an approach of an "unopinioned observer" (I purposefully avoided the word "bias" because while I believe we're all biased to some extent, there's a state of awareness of said bias along with an attempt to correct for it, or there's an active embrace of that bias). IMO if you're covering politics and you are feigning not even having an opinion on the topic, then you're in the wrong business.

Ars Technica simply called a spade a spade in the plainest of terms and then backed up their assertion with reasonable evidence, which is how I think basically every news source worth a damn should be.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,233
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News should be who, what, when, where, and why. If any of that is unknown, state that the information is unknown, don't speculate.
Most news is tainted by the omission of information and the politics of the reporter.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,601
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That's just a factual headline that hasn't been sanewashed into "Controversial appointee brings fresh perspective to agency" like happens nearly every time over at NYT. Overuse of passive language is journalistic malpractice in itself because it obscures reality, often in favor of dangerous people.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,273
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News should be who, what, when, where, and why. If any of that is unknown, state that the information is unknown, don't speculate.
Most news is tainted by the omission of information and the politics of the reporter.
Good news: all of that is known in this case.

Also, good journalism isn't just reporting facts. It's reporting the consequences of those facts.

As my boss in engineering consulting told me at the time, people don't pay me to obtain and report the information. They pay me to explain to them what that information means for them and their business/process and how to move forward.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,499
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Did you stop learning about journalism in 6th grade?
His home schooling only went to fifth. I think I remember reading that he bragged about sleeping with his teacher too, which may be why he never went further along. You can’t be hard on him though, only being raised by his father is tough:p
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,914
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The problem is that in real journalism there is some criteria you have to live up to, to be able to publish it. In this new media landscape everything is just opinions, feelings and "my truth", being published as news and real journalism.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,233
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The problem is that in real journalism there is some criteria you have to live up to, to be able to publish it. In this new media landscape everything is just opinions, feelings and "my truth", being published as news and real journalism.
It's called spin, and it's almost universal. The best example I ever saw was back when California enacted it's three strikes law. Shortly after it started there was a story about a man who was sentenced to twenty years in jail because he stole a bicycle and that was his third strike.
What the story didn't mention was that the bike he stole was in the back of a pickup that he jacked at gunpoint. That "overlooked" fact totally changes the narrative.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,914
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It's called spin, and it's almost universal. The best example I ever saw was back when California enacted it's three strikes law. Shortly after it started there was a story about a man who was sentenced to twenty years in jail because he stole a bicycle and that was his third strike.
What the story didn't mention was that the bike he stole was in the back of a pickup that he jacked at gunpoint. That "overlooked" fact totally changes the narrative.
But the job of the media is to counter spin, not be microphone holders of politicians and other people who holds power. And since it is the same person's who owns the media and sponsors the politicians, there's a serious conflict of interest between journalism who has the job of informing the public and those who hold power.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,273
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It's called spin, and it's almost universal. The best example I ever saw was back when California enacted it's three strikes law. Shortly after it started there was a story about a man who was sentenced to twenty years in jail because he stole a bicycle and that was his third strike.
What the story didn't mention was that the bike he stole was in the back of a pickup that he jacked at gunpoint. That "overlooked" fact totally changes the narrative.
34x convicted felon, rapist looks to go unchallenged as Republican party's candidate for US presidential election...
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,727
18,889
136
It's called spin, and it's almost universal. The best example I ever saw was back when California enacted it's three strikes law. Shortly after it started there was a story about a man who was sentenced to twenty years in jail because he stole a bicycle and that was his third strike.
What the story didn't mention was that the bike he stole was in the back of a pickup that he jacked at gunpoint. That "overlooked" fact totally changes the narrative.
It's fascinating that "a story" didn't mention that, but somehow you became aware of it anyway, which supposes that another story did in fact reveal that information. Based on the information you've given, we don't even know if it was a "news report" or an op-ed or human interest story or what, and you are not a reliable narrator.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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It's called spin, and it's almost universal. The best example I ever saw was back when California enacted it's three strikes law. Shortly after it started there was a story about a man who was sentenced to twenty years in jail because he stole a bicycle and that was his third strike.
What the story didn't mention was that the bike he stole was in the back of a pickup that he jacked at gunpoint. That "overlooked" fact totally changes the narrative.
No. This is why Fox News cant identify as "News" ... cause they fail journalistic integrity standards.

THERE ARE NO NEWS ON THE RIGHT. Only fucking opinions and "entertainment". No facts.

It'd be the same if the left got all their news from the colbert show or the daily show.

Too bad you're not the only frog in the pot, cause I'd happily watch you boil.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,778
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No. This is why Fox News cant identify as "News" ... cause they fail journalistic integrity standards.

THERE ARE NO NEWS ON THE RIGHT. Only fucking opinions and "entertainment". No facts.

It'd be the same if the left got all their news from the colbert show or the daily show.

Too bad you're not the only frog in the pot, cause I'd happily watch you boil.

For the ordinary generic FOX viewer, they have been conditioned by FOX's spin jockeys to rely on lies and rumor mongering to defend their party's agenda all while being groomed as hateful, spiteful "defenders of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" that's been threatened and wronged by immigrant loving, blasphemous sexually deviant commie traitors. In true hypocritical and projection fashion, these self declared victims of the "radical left's agenda" think it's perfectly fine to commit treason against The Constitution and Rule of Law via their dedicated support of a fascist authoritarian hellbent on seizing power and never letting it go. They're even supporting Putin, one of the nation's biggest enemies all because Trump likes him for some very suspect reasons of which he'll never divulge.

They have lost their reasoning abilities and grip on reality because they are compelled to do that in order to defend the indefensible, to set aside their morals and ethics and replace it with a religious fervor for a narcissist that does not have the ability to think of the wishes and desires of the nation he leads because this affliction of his demands that the only person he needs to satisfy is himself.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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News should be who, what, when, where, and why. If any of that is unknown, state that the information is unknown, don't speculate.
Most news is tainted by the omission of information and the politics of the reporter.
How on earth could you explain the 'why' in a very large number of stories without speculation and/or editorial judgment by the reporter or editor?

For example why did Putin invade Ukraine? Is the news supposed to say 'nobody knows for sure' and leave it at that? How is that serving their readers well?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,150
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How on earth could you explain the 'why' in a very large number of stories without speculation and/or editorial judgment by the reporter or editor?

For example why did Putin invade Ukraine? Is the news supposed to say 'nobody knows for sure' and leave it at that? How is that serving their readers well?
But you frame it as speculation ... Where as other "sources" will frame speculation as fact.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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But you frame it as speculation ... Where as other "sources" will frame speculation as fact.
I wouldn't even know how to draw that line. Like it's speculation if I say Russia invaded Ukraine to make it a satellite state, I assume.

What if the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs says that? Absent interception of some communication to that effect it's still speculation, even if it's far better informed speculation than mine. I suspect people would say the news should report on what the chairman said and while I agree, that is reporting someone else's speculation instead of my own.

People's ideas on what is defined as a fact are highly variable and mostly seem to boil down to 'I know it when I see it'.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,615
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Enough people here --- if not on the same page as I -- are in the same atmospheric layer.

I first turned my attention to FOX in 2004 -- January I think it was -- when they began announcing a week in advance that "Ted Kennedy would deliver a presentation at the National Press Club [a week thereafter]." [The topic was riveted to Bush's decision to start the Iraq War, mentioning an absence of WMDs and other factors.] They continued this promotion until the day and time arrived. They had suckered their viewers to sit on the edge of their chairs until that moment.

Then, they present about 5 minutes of the Senator, followed by their own 30 minutes to comment.

I've BEEN to the National Press Club --- physically and personally, and nobody goes there to speak a mere 5 minutes. I eventually found the entire delivery on CSPAN -- an hour long.

I discovered other instances of their deception, some very significant but requiring me to write several paragraphs so that you readers must pay attention -- for instance, there was Glenn Beck, with his highly-promoted lecture on "Propaganda", delivered with props once used by Bishop Sheen. He had a blackboard and chalk, you see. I'm not going to belabor that, but it was a significant deception for people with only the layman's understanding of the topic and their naive conception as to the nature of propaganda.

Another case I discovered in either 2021 or 2022, but at the height of the BLM demonstrations and the reactions to them. First, to prepare you and your understanding, here's a hypothetical example:

"1,000 smokers died of cancer last year, while 1,000 non-smokers also died of cancer. Therefore, smoking is not a health problem."

Take a moment and you can discover the absurdity of the remark. On FOX, the news lady stated that 50 black men had been shot and killed by police in thus-and-such year, while 51 white men had suffered a similar fate -- therefore -- no problem.

FOX apparently believed their audience was predominately mentally handicapped, but in any case, a journalism staff of that size would clearly see they were otherwise trading in deception.

MY POINT HERE?! Especially if other media don't report these anomalies, you have discovered that a major news outlet is in the deliberate -- DELIBERATE! -- business of deceiving its audience. The smart person would simply conclude that spending time with FOX was an unproductive waste of time, or otherwise a way to become confused and uninformed.

It's that simple! Traditionally, news media follow either of two strategies and dictums: Objective media attempts to provide all the facts they can fit into a broadcast, without driving their choice of facts by their ideology -- which they probably should not admit having. Advocacy journalism has its best example in the Hearst newspapers with their "Remember the Maine!" news splash, and FOX is the modern offshoot of the same approach.

In the most modern times, I'm sure that other media contrary to FOX/OAN/etc. see this as a fight they must pursue, with the risks that they may come under fire for it. But if MSNBC and CNN regularly examine and review news clips from FOX to dissect the absurdities, how often does FOX do the same?

Not that often -- if at all.

Otherwise, and thinking of historical figures like Francis Bacon, Rene Descartes; the development of symbolic logic, predicate and propositional calculus, we see a standard for something more generally known as "Common Sense". If you want reliable news, determine who is presenting the largest number of cross-verifiable facts, who is censoring or hiding facts, who seems to be deliberately deceiving its audience.

It's sad that such a large number of the electorate are too stupid or ignorant to bother struggling toward the light.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,944
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"The objectives of journalism"


article said:
“The public interest” is a very broad term, but in the context of journalism, it has been explicitly defined. The Press Complaints Commission, which regulates British print media, defines the public interest as:


(i) Detecting or exposing crime or a serious misdemeanour.
(ii) Protecting public health and safety.
(iii) Preventing the public from being misled by some statement or action of an individual or organisation.

Since the public is the ultimate source of income for media, acting in their interest is both an ethical and pragmatic concern for journalists.
 
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