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An example of 'free market economics'

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'Free market economics' is one of the major political forces today.

It sounds good on its simplistic and misleading sales pitch - 'the invisible hand of the market will most efficiently do things, and government only causes inefficiency and waste'.

Many people - whether uninformed citizens or in some cases Nobel Laureates - don't seem to take it much further than that before becoming soldiers in the war for that cause.

But let's look at just one example for the inadequacies it shows in free market economics.

NAFTA was passed as 'free trade'. And indeed, it had the effect of allowing far more efficient mega corporate farmers in the US who could produce corn much more cheaply than small farmers in Mexico, to sell corn there, and the price of corn was lowered 70%. When the story stops there, this is a great victory for free market economics - efficient, lowering the cost of goods, just think of all the benefit to Mexicans who can eat more affordably.

There's at most some fuzzy words about 'and all the farmers displaced get moved into more productive activities, no one loses'.

But what actually happened is that this totally devastated the Mexican corn farming industry. They simply could not make a living - even as cheap as the cost of living is in rural Mexico - and a million corn farmers out of business fled in desperation across the border to the US for hopes of making money.

Where we have our poor handling of the issue, filled with politicization and neglect of any human concern, leading to all these situations like the 'dream children'.

The actual human societal needs to ensure that people have needs met, have opportunity, a societal interest in broader distribution of wealth instead of oligarchy where most are poor in service - if they're lucky - to the few extremely rich - all of these things basically have no place in 'free market economics'. They have no idea how to government consistently with any democratic, any humanistic values. They write this off with vague and false platitudes that somehow the generated wealth will find its way into everyone's hands.

But it doesn't - and the more concentrated wealth is, the worse it gets.

Historically, these things have led to revolutions - France in the 1790's, Russia in the early 20th century, and so on. But that's no longer practical, not that it was every pretty.

What would you think about the suggestion that tomorrow, we take a third of the bottom 99% of Americans' wealth from them, and hand it to the top 1%?

You might think that's a terrible idea, no one is suggesting it, and there's no way that could happen.

But while the third figure isn't exact, that's exactly what happened when you look at the 2008 crash. It wiped out something like that much wealth - and in the years after, the economy recovered overall - the stock market more than doubling from 7000 to over 15000 - yet something like over 95% of all the recovery wealth went to the top 1%. So the net effect was for the 99% to lose all that wealth, and only the 1% gained it all. And yet who is discussing the issue that way?

But that's the real result of 'free market economics' - no real concern or ability to have much of any idea about how to govern and the well being of all the people - just some legitimate policies about how to create some wealth, but with that wealth likely going into very few hands at great expense to most, if the political system doesn't balance that - but the balancing of that, what democracy is supposed to do, is demonized by the 'free market' supporters as 'redistribution' like that's a bad thing.

I haven't seen them complain at all about the redistribution of wealth to the top, only to a more equal society.

Some people simplistically equate a better distribution of wealth with the extreme of some 'everyone has the same amount' communist theory, which is completely false.

John Kennedy said - because it was true then - that 'a rising tide lifts all boats'. But since Reagan, over 90% of the public is flat or worse on income, while the top few get all the massive increases in economic productivity - even as the increases are so large the economy has more than doubled in size, wth nearly all the increase to the top 1% - and nearly all of it to the small fraction of the top of that 1%.

But what's happened is a political/propaganda effort to get people not to oppose this, but to support it.

The Koch brothers - since the 1970's advocates of a radical libertarianism in the US - saw their wealth grow in recent years from $7 billion to well over $50 billion - giving them plenty of money to buy this change in the US public opinion as they fund hundreds of radical right people and groups. For just one example - the far right Scott Walker, viewed as a 2016 presidential possibility, didn't grow organically in Wisconsin politics - his biggest donor was the Kochs.

I've broadened from the example of US corn in Mexico and free market economics, because of how the same problem can happen and is happening to much of the US.

What are the solutions of the free market advocates to the needs of the American people? Impractical platitudes - the poor are to blame, not the policies. And like any propaganda there's a nugget of truth - the poor are not perfect, but as propaganda, it exaggerates that nugget into a lie to hide the larger issues.

Democracy is supposed to be about the people being able to use the vote to recognize these things and pass policies for the good of the people - things like progressive taxes and investments in public education and healthcare. 'Free Market Economics' happen to align with the interest of the very wealthy in creasing their wealth despite the great harm to the rest of society - putting it directly at odds with the democratic principles and goals for society to be better for everyone, not a few at the expense of everyone else.

This is a matter of degree - democracy is happy for some to have a lot more than others - it's the unproductive extremes where it's a problem, oligarchy, where the government is controlled by a few, where the economy is less productive to protect the wealthy and wealth is concentrated to such an extreme as to hurt the rest of society greatly.

Modest inequality of wealth increases productivity; extreme concentration reduces it, and there's that pesky question about how well it's distributed.

Free Market is a simple phrase, easy for people to sign up for, equating the nice word 'freedom' with the word 'free' in 'free market', implying that anything else is some evil communist approach that will 'make everyone equally poor', which is nonsense but effective propaganda. It becomes a religion and cult for many. All they ask about a policy is, 'is it free market?' Nothing else matters to them. And that's a way to have disastrous policies, instead of the 'good governence' that addresses people's and society's actual needs.

When progressives saw the opportunity that educating the public would be a win win increasing economic productivity and enriching citizens, they invested in an explosion of public education in the country - which often meant early on free public education, paid for by the taxes of the people when employed later. And it worked. But 'conservative' ideology, 'free market' ideology, chipped away until, under Reagan as Governor, California was the last state to end the 'free' part - and in the continued 'free market' growth, well intended policies for student aid have been exploited by a largely worthless for-profit explosion in private colleges that are very good at spending big bucks to recruit students, get all the government money for their education, and spit them out without an education but with lots of debt, pocketing vast sums along the way - a system defended by 'conservatives' who are convinced that the private schools just have to be better simply because they're private, ignoring all the facts, data, studies showing what a massive scam it is - with their solution if they have to address it not being to fix the corruption, but reduce the financial aid.

Bottom line - 'free market' ideology has some limited use to increase productivity, but unless balanced by a democratic culture protecting the people, will lead to oligarchy.

Free market economics is not in any way an effective system of governing a society or protecting the interests of the citizens.

What does it offer to the million Mexican farmers driven to flee their home in desperation?

Nothing but starvation, lack of medical care, poverty, prison, deportation, misery and a scolding to do something more productive, it's their fault.

Sometimes, some inefficiency has some benefits. When a Wal-Mart comes to town, and puts all the surrounding small businesses out of business, it legitimately lowers the cost of goods - yet replaces more middle class employment with low-wage Wal-Mart employment if they're lucky, while taking enough money out of the local economy that used to stay in it to pay massive profits to the corporation, including the wealthiest family in the world. Maybe that local economy is better off with some inefficient small businesses and keeping wealth.

Maybe Mexico is better off with higher corn prices and the million farmers employed.

And maybe not - but the way that should be decided is by democratic leaders, not a blind ideology dedicated only to narrow economic growth and not concerned with the people.

There are often 'hidden' interests at work in these things - for example, everyone will say they're for all Americans doing better, but in the short term, the poorer the people are, the cheaper the labor costs for the wealth - putting them at direct odds with the prosperity of the people, something they'll never admit, but will fight hard for.

Free market economics should be viewed not as some American principle, but rather as a tool that can be useful carefully applied, but is a great menace to society when excessive.

Instead, today, more than anything in our political culture it's a cult with followers not understanding they're hurting their own well being.

Earlier I mentioned Nobel Laureates - even radical free market supporters like Milton Friedman - whose economic theories were followed to disaster in the laboratory of Chile under Pinochet - recognized this issue enough that he advocated a 'universal minimum income' for everyone in an attempt to counter the great harm to people of the policies - a policy soundly renounced by today's right. Even Reagan - a Friedman supporter - backed this supporting the 'earned income tax credit', also an issue for today's right.

But that just shows they had some understanding how the policies were lacking - the solutions were not enough.

What HAS worked well is Keynesian economics - leading to great American growth, when that 'rising tide lifted all boats', to the point that even when Democratic governance ended with Nixon, Nixon still said, 'we're all Keynesians now', because the policies had been so proven.

But that was before the war to replace them with 'free market economics' and decades of shifting wealth to the rich and everyone else no longer getting a share of growth.
 
What would you think about the suggestion that tomorrow, we take a third of the bottom 99% of Americans' wealth from them, and hand it to the top 1%?

And in effect, what do you expect to happen? Everyone becomes happier?

Free market economics is not in any way an effective system of governing a society or protecting the interests of the citizens.

You're right, but where do you want this discussion to continue? Yes, we have to protect the interests of our citizens more and not favor corporations (as much) over people. However, we don't have to abolish this free market system completely. This will most likely never happen very soon. I'd call for more corporate regulation. Don't get me started on agricultural economics. Being a farmer used to mean something. Now, farmers are among the poorest in our country.

Free market economics should be viewed not as some American principle, but rather as a tool that can be useful carefully applied, but is a great menace to society when excessive.

Free market economics has always been an American principle, although this is obviously never something that is taught to American students. In fact, slavery has been a vital complement to the development of a free market, that is, free labor. You can argue that slavery still exists today, since so many workers are treated just as equally bad.

Democracy is supposed to be about the people being able to use the vote to recognize these things and pass policies for the good of the people - things like progressive taxes and investments in public education and healthcare.

I don't see a democracy here. Considering the abolition of federal election donation limits, we are, either way, living in a plutocracy. We may laugh about Russia and other corrupt countries, although we are just the same. No, we don't shove money into politicians' face in front of camera crews from CNN. Instead, we donate. American style all the way.

I honestly can't "decipher" where this topic is going to go, although at first glance it seems like a pro-socialist propaganda thread. As much as I can't endure some of these issues that make very good headlines, e.g. corporate greed and the failure of capitalism, I would like to know whether you've ever lived in a socialist country. In Germany, for instance, healthcare is nearly free. That's obviously a very good sign. Unemployment benefits go through the roof and can be highly manipulated. This not only kills tax money, but increases immigrants. Not to say that this is not already happening in the U.S., but "favoring" citizens (more) over corporations is probably not the best idea. Small-business is pretty much dominated by wealthy individuals. There is no way someone from the middle tier can start a business and get huge amounts of loans. Never. Plus, corporate taxes would kill you in the long run, anyway.
 
You need to redistribute wealth through a strong state, investing in roads, schools, health care etc. That will benefit both rich and poor, while keeping market economics.
 
holy TLDR!!! Do you have a summary of your thesis???

No. But I'll give you an analogy for fun.

One problem with 'free market economics' is that it's an extremist ideology that would destroy mankind unchecked, yet there's no built-in way to discuss the 'right amount'.

Imagine someone said 'cooking food longer is always better'. That's analogous to absolutist maxims such as 'freer markets are always better' or 'lower taxes are always better'.

Now, they'd have a good argument, when they cherry pick an example of someone getting food poisoning from undercooked meat. See! Cooking it longer would have been better!

But they don't want to discuss the pile of ashes of drastically overcooked meat needing more cooking. In this example, of course, we all understand the idea of the 'right' amount of cooking. Not too much, not too little. But on important topics such as 'free market economics' and tax rates, although the same situation exists that there are 'right levels' and too little or too much are disasters, there is no such easy, generally agreed understanding. One side tends to fall into absolutism. More of their side is always better.

This simple problem causes these people to have quite distorted ideas about the right policies. They ignore the facts that contradict their ideology. They ignore the fact that they abandoned the ideology when it's convenient but apply it to others no matter how bad an idea.

It's a bit like a politician who will run on 'always make criminal sentences harsher', or 'always cut taxes', and so on. There are people who will always vote for the people who offer them more of the simple solutions, without any idea of when those solution go too far and are counter-productive.

The people who simply support an absolutist version of free market economics need to understand economics better and the wrongness of that absolutism. There are times the free market principles are great, to a point, and there are times when they're the wrong answer, and we need people - voters and leaders - to know the difference, not be simplistic.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

H. L. Mencken
 
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