An Energy Coup for Japan: ‘Flammable Ice’

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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This is great news, not just for Japan, but any nation that does not wanted to import their energy needs.

link

TOKYO — Japan said Tuesday that it had extracted gas from offshore deposits of methane hydrate — sometimes called “flammable ice” — a breakthrough that officials and experts said could be a step toward tapping a promising but still little-understood energy source.

The gas, whose extraction from the undersea hydrate was thought to be a world first, could provide an alternative source of energy to known oil and gas reserves. That could be crucial especially for Japan, which is the world’s biggest importer of liquefied natural gas and is engaged in a public debate about whether to resume the country’s heavy reliance on nuclear power.

Experts estimate that the carbon found in gas hydrates worldwide totals at least twice the amount of carbon in all of the earth’s other fossil fuels, making it a potential game-changer for energy-poor countries like Japan. The exact properties of undersea hydrates and how they might affect the environment are still poorly understood, however, as is the potential for making extraction commercially viable.

Japan has invested hundreds of millions of dollars since the early 2000s to explore offshore methane hydrate reserves in both the Pacific and the Sea of Japan. That task has become all the more pressing after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear crisis, which has all but halted Japan’s nuclear energy program and caused a sharp increase in the country’s fossil fuel imports.

The Japanese Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said a team aboard the scientific drilling ship Chikyu had started a trial extraction of gas from a layer of methane hydrates about 300 meters, or 1,000 feet, below the seabed Tuesday morning. The ship has been drilling since January in an area of the Pacific about 1,000 meters deep and 80 kilometers, or 50 miles, south of the Atsumi Peninsula in central Japan.

Using a specialized drill, the team converted the undersea methane hydrate into ice and natural gas, and brought the natural gas to the surface, the ministry said in a statement.

Hours later, a flare on the ship’s stern showed that gas was being produced, the ministry said.

“Japan could finally have an energy source to call its own,” said Takami Kawamoto, a spokesman for the Japan Oil, Gas & Metals National Corp., or Jogmec, the state-run company leading the trial extraction.

The team will continue the trial extraction for about two weeks before analyzing how much gas has been produced, Jogmec said. Japan hopes to make the extraction technology commercially viable in about five years.

“This is the world’s first trial production of gas from oceanic methane hydrates, and I hope we will be able to confirm stable gas production,” Toshimitsu Motegi, the Japanese trade minister, said at a news conference in Tokyo. He acknowledged that the extraction process would still face technical hurdles and other problems.

Still, “shale gas was considered technologically difficult to extract but is now produced on a large scale,” he said. “By tackling these challenges one by one, we could soon start tapping the resources that surround Japan.”

Jogmec estimates that the surrounding area in the Nankai submarine trough holds at least 1.1 trillion cubic meters, or 39 trillion cubic feet, of methane hydrate, enough to meet 11 years’ worth of gas imports to Japan.

A separate, rough estimate by the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology has put the total amount of methane hydrate in the waters surrounding Japan at more than 7 trillion cubic meters, or what researchers have long said is closer to 100 years’ worth of Japan’s natural gas needs.

“Now we know that extraction is possible,” said Mikio Satoh, a senior researcher in marine geology at the institute who was not involved in the Nankai trough expedition. “The next step is to see how far Japan can get costs down to make the technology economically viable.”

Sometimes referred to as flammable ice, methane hydrate is a sherbet-like substance that can form when methane gas is trapped in ice below the seabed or underground. Japan, together with Canada, has already succeeded in extracting gas from methane hydrate trapped in permafrost soil.

Experts say there are abundant deposits of gas hydrates in the seabed and in Arctic regions. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, recent mapping off the North Carolina and South Carolina coasts shows large accumulations of methane hydrates. Canada, China, Norway and the United States are also exploring hydrate deposits.

Scientists at the U.S.G.S. note, however, that there is still a limited understanding of how drilling for hydrates might affect the environment, particularly the possible release of methane, a greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere, and are calling for continued research and monitoring.

“Gas hydrates have always been seen as a potentially vast energy source, but the question was, How do we extract gas from under the ocean?” said Ryo Matsumoto, a professor in geology at Meiji University in Tokyo who has led research into Japan’s hydrate deposits. “Now we’ve cleared one big hurdle.”
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
An interesting development that could at some point help us reduce dependence on the crazies in the middle east and venezuela.

I'm sure eco-kooks will quickly come up with a reason why it needs to be banned though. They hate anything that could result in cheaper overall energy because it undermines their eco-kook ideas of forcing everyone into their cult through exorbitant energy prices.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
An interesting development that could at some point help us reduce dependence on the crazies in the middle east and venezuela.

I'm sure eco-kooks will quickly come up with a reason why it needs to be banned though. They hate anything that could result in cheaper overall energy because it undermines their eco-kook ideas of forcing everyone into their cult through exorbitant energy prices.

How does this reduce dependence on the middle east or Venezuela? The US has an overabundance of natural gas, so much so the companies are trying to get permission to export natural gas
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
How does this reduce dependence on the middle east or Venezuela? The US has an overabundance of natural gas, so much so the companies are trying to get permission to export natural gas

Lowering the price of natural gas more will lead to new cars that run on it or cheaper electricity that allows for more electric vehicles and the infrastructure that comes with that. The possibilities are endless.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Lowering the price of natural gas more will lead to new cars that run on it or cheaper electricity that allows for more electric vehicles and the infrastructure that comes with that. The possibilities are endless.

Have you actually looked at the availability and price of natural gas in the US?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-us-gas-exports-shake-155906246.html


Despite objections, the U.S. is heading down the road to export natural gas, and that could ultimately help shake up world energy markets.

The port is dredged to make room for the shipping of liquefied natural gas.The boom in U.S. natural gas, thanks to new drilling technologies has resulted in a record amount of recoverable gas at cheap prices. Selling some of it abroad would bolster U.S. exports, help trade imbalances and relations, and provide fuel to parts of the world where it is now scarce and expensive.

But there are concerns that the shipments out of the country will mean higher prices in the U.S. which has enjoyed extremely low prices recently. Natural gas futures on the NYMEX have been trading at about $3.50 per million BTUs. Natural gas is much more expensive in other parts of the world, especially Asia where the price is oil-linked.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
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I didn't think this was all that impressive until I got to this:

Experts estimate that the carbon found in gas hydrates worldwide totals at least twice the amount of carbon in all of the earth’s other fossil fuels

I had no idea there was so much of this stuff around. Obviously we wouldn't really be inclined to use it unless natural gas was more expensive. Maybe if we some day start running through our natural gas....? (although that would take, I believe, a very long time).
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
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londojowo.hypermart.net
What is your point? This discovery was made in Japan and, considering that they are the largest natural gas importer on earth, that will lead to lower prices overall globally since Japan will be less reliant on America for natural gas.

The US doesn't export any natural gas to Japan or anyone else. Japan using less will not affect the prices in the US.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
That did not answer the question, it was just a bunch of random links about methane hydrate. A quick scan of the page you provided shows it is a gas. A gas is not a solid.

Your attempt to be a smart ass failed because you forgot the smart part. You were just an ass.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
The US doesn't export any natural gas to Japan or anyone else. Japan using less will not affect the prices in the US.

Not now but it will in the future. The LNG facilities in the Gulf have asked for permission to turned their terminals from import to export. There may also be west coast LNG terminals as well so they have Japan and other parts of Asia squarely in their sights. Also, this new discovery may not be exploitable for another 5 years, giving everyone enough time to see gas prices plummet even further.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
That did not answer the question, it was just a bunch of random links about methane hydrate. A quick scan of the page you provided shows it is a gas. A gas is not a solid.

Your attempt to be a smart ass failed because you forgot the smart part. You were just an ass.

Are you really this dense? Heating the ice results in gas being released.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Are you really this dense? Heating the ice results in gas being released.

You are saying the ice is not flammable, it is the gas that is flammable. The gas that you get when you heat the ice up enough that it passes through the liquid state and into the gaseous state.

I will assume they call it flammable ice because it sounds cute and not because it is actually true at all.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
Your attempt to be a smart ass failed because you forgot the smart part. You were just an ass.

If it failed, it's because I overestimated the capabilities of the person to whom I provided resources.

If you really wanted to know how this worked, you could find out. Or at least, a reasonably intelligent person could.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Not now but it will in the future. The LNG facilities in the Gulf have asked for permission to turned their terminals from import to export. There may also be west coast LNG terminals as well so they have Japan and other parts of Asia squarely in their sights. Also, this new discovery may not be exploitable for another 5 years, giving everyone enough time to see gas prices plummet even further.

Of course US companies wants to export to Japan however, it's going to take several years to get approval to build the LNG plants and terminals.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
For what? If it is wrong to quote it, it was wrong for the post to be made in the first place. Since we all know it was not wrong for him to post it (else it would have garnered an infraction and it did not), it is not wrong to quote it either.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
How does this reduce dependence on the middle east or Venezuela? The US has an overabundance of natural gas, so much so the companies are trying to get permission to export natural gas
Obviously without the abundance of natural gas that the US already has, the US would be much much more dependent on foreign oil that it currently is. Other countries than the us are actually much more dependent on the middle east and venezuela than the us is.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
An interesting development that could at some point help us reduce dependence on the crazies in the middle east and venezuela.

I'm sure eco-kooks will quickly come up with a reason why it needs to be banned though. They hate anything that could result in cheaper overall energy because it undermines their eco-kook ideas of forcing everyone into their cult through exorbitant energy prices.

You mean continue reducing our dependence. This dependence has been decreasing in the last few years.