Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

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Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
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How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,114
6,770
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We should form a consumer's union for gamers where we have a website we sign up at and promote it on social media and youtube. We collectively agree to buy or not buy a product based on fair or unfair pricing. You get an email or visit the site after the release of a GPU or other product, everyone votes "accept" or "reject" and we have the honor to respect the decision and not buy the product if that's what has been decided by the majority.

People will say the free market already decides that, but I see it differently. I see enormous untapped power in the consumer to control prices when faced with a lack of healthy competition in the market. It can be done through influence and promotion, and with today's powerful social networking tools in all areas of modern life, such promotional efforts can snowball and become effective. It makes more sense with a population of consumers who repeatedly buy cycles of products, such as the gaming GPUs we are discussing today, where price hikes are only possible in the absence of outside pressure. Without competition, consumers themselves can organize and obtain enough participants to exert a non-trivial amount of pressure sufficient to make prices more fair for certain products.

It won't work out in reality even if people agree to it. I recall a similar protest/boycott over a CoD game many years ago. There's a funny image of all of the people in the Steam boycott group playing the game right after launch.

The only way prices come down is if AMD has a competitive product in a product range. Even if they initially set prices high to match NVidia based on relative performance of the two products they'll both face pressure to cut prices to scoop up additional sales.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
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It won't work out in reality even if people agree to it. I recall a similar protest/boycott over a CoD game many years ago. There's a funny image of all of the people in the Steam boycott group playing the game right after launch.

The only way prices come down is if AMD has a competitive product in a product range. Even if they initially set prices high to match NVidia based on relative performance of the two products they'll both face pressure to cut prices to scoop up additional sales.

The advocacy group side of the organization could focus on several core consumer-related issues, not only hardware. The influence could build and become substantial which may end up helping to keep prices in check for hardware related to the union side.
 

CastleBravo

Member
Dec 6, 2019
120
271
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Expecting AMD to compete with the lack of willingness to buy their products is selfish.

I would have bought a 5700 XT at launch if they would have said in no uncertain terms there wouldn't be a more powerful AMD card for at least another year and a half. Now I'm probably going to buy a 3080 unless AMD finally gives us some information on their upcoming products instead of just hoping once again they will release a high end card before 2021. "Year of the Gamer" my ass Lisa.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,233
1,610
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Since AMD is deciding to price their cards like Nvidia now, rather than value price their cards and absorb more marketshare, they decided to maximize profit by increasing their pricing, they are just as much to blame for high videocard pricing.

I think AMD sets prices so high because they simply couldn't fulfill demand anyway
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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I would have bought a 5700 XT at launch if they would have said in no uncertain terms there wouldn't be a more powerful AMD card for at least another year and a half. Now I'm probably going to buy a 3080 unless AMD finally gives us some information on their upcoming products instead of just hoping once again they will release a high end card before 2021. "Year of the Gamer" my ass Lisa.

Lisa Su has specifically said the cards will release this year.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
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What I think is somewhat relevant to the pricing and wafer supply issue:

Local onlineshop just started a "sale" of intel CPUs and motherboards and more importantly Nvidia GPUs. "sale" because it's maybe $100-$50 off the GPU and you will almost certainly get a better deal with an Ampere card. My point however being is that they have a lot of stock (given the size of the target population) especially of the 2080TI. I see now way they will sell even half of that stock. So this shortage seems to be a US specific problem and not really a good argument for the high prices.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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What I think is somewhat relevant to the pricing and wafer supply issue:

Local onlineshop just started a "sale" of intel CPUs and motherboards and more importantly Nvidia GPUs. "sale" because it's maybe $100-$50 off the GPU and you will almost certainly get a better deal with an Ampere card. My point however being is that they have a lot of stock (given the size of the target population) especially of the 2080TI. I see now way they will sell even half of that stock. So this shortage seems to be a US specific problem and not really a good argument for the high prices.

Where did you hear there was a shortage of Turing GPUs in the US?

Intel on the other hand is having a shortage issue, but its of higher end CPU's, not low end ones.
 

Karnak

Senior member
Jan 5, 2017
399
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Some news from Igor regarding the memory/temperatures:

The memory is, even if you ask the board partners, the real problem child, which is to place current air coolers before such problems. One reports of up to 98 ° in the hottest module. At least here AMD can sleep a bit quieter because of the wider memory interface, without having to tinker with the GDDR6 on steriods (in the form of the GDDR6X).
[...]
NVIDIA’s so-called “over hand feature”, i.e. the very short boards with a protruding cooler, generate a very high heat flux density on a rather small area, especially with double-sided memory assembly. This is gonna be hot, really hot. With dual-slot designs, however, this won’t be possible without VC, because the up to 350 watts really have to be transported away quickly.

At least for air cooling that doesn't sound promising. For water it shouldn't be a problem though.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
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I think AMD sets prices so high because they simply couldn't fulfill demand anyway
This. AMD are not a charity, they are going to make as much money as possible. This next gen is using a process node that AMD has to compete for space on with several bigger richer companies, and what allocation AMD has is also being used for cpu's and consoles by AMD. They are not going to be able to pump out huge numbers of gpu's, hence they'll be able to sell what they have at higher prices. Nvidia if anything is the one in a position to lower prices as they have a lot more capacity if rumours are true that they are using the less popular 8nm (not that I expect them too).
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
240
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What about gdd6rx advantage as far we know its only for NV as they have a deal with micron
If AMD want more memory bandwith they need to push wider bus to memory
 

Veradun

Senior member
Jul 29, 2016
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I would have bought a 5700 XT at launch if they would have said in no uncertain terms there wouldn't be a more powerful AMD card for at least another year and a half. Now I'm probably going to buy a 3080 unless AMD finally gives us some information on their upcoming products instead of just hoping once again they will release a high end card before 2021. "Year of the Gamer" my ass Lisa.
You don't talk about your future products. Period.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,114
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There's always the option of going HBM, at least on the high end products.

No doubt AMD sold the Radeon VII at $700 because they'd have a hard time charging more, but if NVidia is charging $1,300 or more for their top card then I think AMD will have some room to maneuver even if they aren't the top dog in terms of performance.

If heat really is a big concern for NVidia the the third party cards will start to offer water solutions. I'm not sure why NVidia doesn't do it themselves unless they're worried about the optics. They wouldn't be the first though (AMD offered Fury with a water-cooling solution if I recall correctly) and honestly it's not hard to sell it as a premium solution for a premium product.

Regardless of how it all shakes out, I'm just glad we'll be seeing new cards before the end of the year though.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,223
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GA101 might have been HBM, but unless they revive it there won't be any 'gaming' cards with HBM. Would have to be on a node that's not SS8 though.

If heat really is a big concern for NVidia the the third party cards will start to offer water solutions. I'm not sure why NVidia doesn't do it themselves unless they're worried about the optics. They wouldn't be the first though (AMD offered Fury with a water-cooling solution if I recall correctly) and honestly it's not hard to sell it as a premium solution for a premium product.

That's why they are using the double sided cooler. Can't be water if it's going to be used by OEMs.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
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So we can expect 2-sided water blocks? It would have to sandwich the card between two blocks and have the inlet on one block and the outlet on the other block with a flow connector between the blocks, right? If that's the case, I'd imagine water blocks to be more expensive as well.
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
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That's why they are using the double sided cooler. Can't be water if it's going to be used by OEMs.

I don't necessarily agree. I mean look at an OEM like Alienware today. FE Nvidia cards are dual fan coolers, but Alienware puts cheapo blower boards/cards in their new PCs not FEs. So Nvidia could certainly do an AIO FE and OEMs could stick with their generic blowers.

Fury X and Vega 64 Liquid (I own both) are fantastic AIO designs. I would LOVE it if Nvidia followed suit.
 

Krteq

Senior member
May 22, 2015
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These things are just backplates, you can see PCB just below them
nvidia-geforce-rtx-30c3jaf.jpg
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,187
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So you're saying the fan is on the side of the PCB? Doesn't make any sense, that's stupid.

:shrug: It's not my design but that's what is in the picture. There's several things in this design that don't make sense to me in terms of air flow and heat flux, but I'm not a mechanical engineer so maybe I'm just missing the point.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,894
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Guys enough AMD talk in a NVIDIA THREAD.

I really do not care about NAVI in this thread.
I do not care about speculative comparison on AMD cards in a NVIDIA thread.
The only time AMD should be talked about in again a NVIDIA thread is after real numbers are out and you want to do a hard pass comparison.
You can't even accurately compare PRICE because again, its SPECULATIVE.

STOP POLLUTING MY NVIDIA THREAD
or GO TO THE AMD SECTION.

---end of rant---


Since the 3090 is now officially spoiled, I am assuming there is going to be no 3080ti, as i hear the 3090 is now the official flag ship.
However is there any chance that you guys think Nvidia will pull a 3090Ti, like a few months after launch and rub salt on early adopters?