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Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

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Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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Nvidia's statement:

GeForce RTX 3070 Availability Update

Production of GeForce RTX 3070 graphics cards are ramping quickly. We’ve heard from many of you that there should be more cards available on launch day. To help make that happen, we are updating the availability date to Thursday, October 29th.

We know this may be disappointing to those eager to purchase a GeForce RTX 3070 as soon as possible, however this shift will help our global partners get more graphics cards into the hands of gamers on launch day.
Videocardz also mentions that they've heard embargo doesn't lift until release day.
 

MrTeal

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Dec 7, 2003
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Makes sense. It doesn't sound like AMD will have review samples in the wild and reviews won't be up on RX6000, so there won't be any direct comparisons outside AMD's slides. AMD will get press for their GPU announcement, but it'll be pushed off the front page the next day by 3070 reviews.

They better just hope there's not a big delay before the cards actually launch.
 

Head1985

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Jul 8, 2014
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Its pretty clear NV is scared of RDNA2 and dont want AMD show slides RDNA2 12GB or 16GB card or whatever is faster than only 8GB 3070 for same/less money.Also they dont want looks like fools selling only 8GB card for 500usd when AMD probably will counter 3070 with 12/16model for same price so they can adjust/lower prices just like AMD did with 5700 launch.So 3070 will dont look like complete crap in reviews(vs RDNA2)
I am sure if RDNA2 is good they will cut price to 400-450USD before reviews.
 

Head1985

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Some official 3070 perf numbers from NV.This is of course "best case scenario" for 3070 to look good.Also half tests are in programs and not games(like WTF?:rolleyes:)...3070 is slower in borderlands3, control, timespy and faster in doom/wolf minecraft.So based on this i am sure it will be 5-10% slower in wide 20+ game test vs 2080TI.
 

guidryp

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Apr 3, 2006
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Some official 3070 perf numbers from NV.This is of course "best case scenario" for 3070 to look good.Also half tests are in programs and not games(like WTF?:rolleyes:)...3070 is slower in borderlands3, control, timespy and faster in doom/wolf minecraft.So based on this i am sure it will be 5-10% slower in wide 20+ game test vs 2080TI.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-shares-official-geforce-rtx-3070-performance-figures
Yeah, I expect 3070 will stumble in games that hit memory bandwidth, since it has such a deficit vs the 2080Ti, and naturally NVidia won't show us those games, so we won't see them till third parties test and find them.
 

CastleBravo

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Dec 6, 2019
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Some official 3070 perf numbers from NV.This is of course "best case scenario" for 3070 to look good.Also half tests are in programs and not games(like WTF?:rolleyes:)...3070 is slower in borderlands3, control, timespy and faster in doom/wolf minecraft.So based on this i am sure it will be 5-10% slower in wide 20+ game test vs 2080TI.
Fine print at bottom says those test results are at 1440p. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2080 ti destroys it at 4k.
 
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Kenmitch

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Oct 10, 1999
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Fine print at bottom says those test results are at 1440p. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2080 ti destroys it at 4k.
It's not going to be a 4K card so I doubt anybody will care in the end. If the 10GB's is somewhat questionable on the 3080 the 8GB's on the 3070 would be a no go anyways.
 

Ajay

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Jan 8, 2001
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I run @ 1440p and would like to buy an RTX3070 (or AMD equivalent) sometime next year. Big upgrade from my GTX1070.
 

amenx

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Dec 17, 2004
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It's not going to be a 4K card so I doubt anybody will care in the end. If the 10GB's is somewhat questionable on the 3080 the 8GB's on the 3070 would be a no go anyways.
With 99% of games, should be a decent 4k card. Ppl who lazily select ultra everything in settings may not be satisfied, but anyone who knows how to get the most out of settings will likely be content with 4k perf. Just my guess from using an even weaker card (2080) on 4k.
 

ModEl4

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Oct 14, 2019
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Regarding the delay, except the obvious possibilities like driver optimizations, not wanted AMD slides with direct comparisons, try to steal AMD momentum etc., maybe official 3070 results with Zen 3 systems (at least +1% free additional perf vs 10900K results when compared with a 2080ti at QHD) and a possible 3070ti 16GB announcement (or some other more interesting models too depending how AMD fares 😋)

Edited the percentage (1% instead of 1,5%, the PCI-express difference essentially)
 
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MrTeal

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Dec 7, 2003
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If you just look at games there, it's 102.6% at 1440p vs the 2080Ti. That's really not bad if it holds up, but I'd expect it to fall back at 4k.
 
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ModEl4

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Oct 14, 2019
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but I'd expect it to fall back at 4k.
Yes it seems like it, my original predictions was -4% at 4K and -1% at QHD, (of course better overall tested in games with RTX and DLSS) I wonder if in the review guidelines they suggest testing with Zen3 in order to get 1% percent additional performance due to PCI-express scaling but that would be too early I guess.
 

Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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I think the 3070 will perform rather well. The reason the 3090 looks awful in comparison to the 3080 is that it's really difficult for games to utilize all of the resources a card like the 3090 has to offer. It's the same problem that AMD was running into when they used a similar approach with Fury and its successors. Sure it's amazing for compute where the problems all scale almost perfectly, but it doesn't do as well when it comes to game engines.

The 3070 isn't going to be past the point of diminishing returns as far as the hardware goes so unless there's some other bottleneck that NVidia overlooked (I wouldn't bet on anything glaringly obvious) we should get a card that's a lot more balanced and performs within expectations. I also hope that NVidia dials down the voltage and boost clock so they don't have the same issues that the 3080/90 have reported. If they had it pushed to the limits as with the other cards, they can probably get 95% of the performance for 66% of the power budget in most cases. That will review just as well and avoid comparisons with Fermi.

I'm also not too worried about 4k performance. If you want that, just get a 3080. It's a monster in 4k for only $200 more. Let the 3070 be the monster 1440p card that will serve as an entry point for 4k gaming, but don't try to force it to be a watered down version of the 3080. Not everyone is going to game at 4k or even wants to.
 

Head1985

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Jul 8, 2014
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I think the 3070 will perform rather well. The reason the 3090 looks awful in comparison to the 3080 is that it's really difficult for games to utilize all of the resources a card like the 3090 has to offer. It's the same problem that AMD was running into when they used a similar approach with Fury and its successors. Sure it's amazing for compute where the problems all scale almost perfectly, but it doesn't do as well when it comes to game engines.

The 3070 isn't going to be past the point of diminishing returns as far as the hardware goes so unless there's some other bottleneck that NVidia overlooked (I wouldn't bet on anything glaringly obvious) we should get a card that's a lot more balanced and performs within expectations. I also hope that NVidia dials down the voltage and boost clock so they don't have the same issues that the 3080/90 have reported. If they had it pushed to the limits as with the other cards, they can probably get 95% of the performance for 66% of the power budget in most cases. That will review just as well and avoid comparisons with Fermi.
There is a bottleneck-old 14ghz GDDR6 same as on 2070 + 8GB Vram will not be enough for 1440p for new gen games.Hell its not even enough for some today games(doom ethernal, SS4, COD games at max settings))
8GB on x70 card in pretty much in 2021 is joke.Polaris rx480 launched with 8GB ram in 2016 for 250usd lol and now we should pay 500USD(i am sure AIb will be 550-600usd anyway) for another x70 8GB card in 2021????
 
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Mopetar

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There is a bottleneck-old 14ghz GDDR6 same as on 2070 + 8GB Vram will not be enough for 1440p for new gen games.Hell its not even enough for some today games(doom ethernal, SS4)
8GB on x70 card in pretty much in 2021 is joke.Polaris rx480 launched with 8GB ram in 2016 for 250usd lol and now we should pay 500USD(i am sure AIb will be 550-600usd anyway) for another x70 8GB card in 2021????
I think NVidia's memory compression is a little bit better than what AMD has so they can get a bit more mileage out of their cards. If you're really worried about 8 GB, I suppose you can hold out for the 16 GB version of the card. There's also a strong possibility that NVidia cuts prices in response to whatever AMD announces if they've got something good.

I don't expect the general performance of the 3070 to be quite as good as the 2080 Ti, but the 2080 Ti was already delivering well over 100 FPS at 1440p in most games. If it's at least 90% of the 2080 Ti for $500 and has a reasonably TDP it will be a good card. While there's no guarantee that 8 GB will be good for all future games at 1440p, it doesn't seem as though the 8 GB limit hurts cards like the 2080 in a lot of benchmarks, at least not at 1440p.
 

amenx

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Dec 17, 2004
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There is a bottleneck-old 14ghz GDDR6 same as on 2070 + 8GB Vram will not be enough for 1440p for new gen games.Hell its not even enough for some today games(doom ethernal, SS4, COD games at max settings))
8GB on x70 card in pretty much in 2021 is joke.Polaris rx480 launched with 8GB ram in 2016 for 250usd lol and now we should pay 500USD(i am sure AIb will be 550-600usd anyway) for another x70 8GB card in 2021????
8gb cards seem to be doing fine at 4k ultra nightmare settings Doom E. 11gb and 16gb cards left behind.
 

guidryp

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2006
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There is a bottleneck-old 14ghz GDDR6 same as on 2070 + 8GB Vram will not be enough for 1440p for new gen games.Hell its not even enough for some today games(doom ethernal, SS4, COD games at max settings))
8GB on x70 card in pretty much in 2021 is joke.Polaris rx480 launched with 8GB ram in 2016 for 250usd lol and now we should pay 500USD(i am sure AIb will be 550-600usd anyway) for another x70 8GB card in 2021????
Not sure if you are worried about bandwidth or capacity.

Capacity is a non issue. 8GB is plenty. I know there is FUD about is and some worry about it. But it really is minutia.

Bandwidth is a significant step back from 2080Ti, so that is a legitimate concern. If they manage to improve caching or algorithms enough to get similar results with that much less BW, that is impressive, and raises the question why did they even need GDDR6X at all. If 3070 can match 2080 Ti, with 448 GB/s, then 3080 didn't need ~60% more BW, to get ~30% more performance than 2080 Ti. It doesn't add up. Unless 3070 really tanks at 4K... Time will tell.
 

Head1985

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Jul 8, 2014
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8gb cards seem to be doing fine at 4k ultra nightmare settings Doom E. 11gb and 16gb cards left behind.
Nope
 

Head1985

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Jul 8, 2014
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Not sure if you are worried about bandwidth or capacity.
Capacity is a non issue. 8GB is plenty. I know there is FUD about is and some worry about it. But it really is minutia.
it is problem.8GB is not plenty for 1440p for next gen games.I know that in doom ethernal there is drop in performance if you play like 1-2hours(it wont show if you benchmark it for 2mins in reviews.But lets say instead 110fps you will have 70fps in same scene) on 8GB cards in 1440p.Same with SS4.COD games at 1440p everything max there is stuttering on 8Gb cards.
SS4 even tells you in menu that 8GB is not enough for 1440p.
 

guidryp

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Apr 3, 2006
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it is problem.8GB is not plenty for 1440p for next gen games.I know that in doom ethernal there is drop in performance if you play like 1-2hours(it wont show if you benchmark it for 2mins in reviews.But lets say instead 110fps you will have 70fps in same scene) on 8GB cards in 1440p.Same with SS4.COD games at 1440p everything max there is stuttering on 8Gb cards.
SS4 even tells you in menu that 8GB is not enough for 1440p.

If the problem doesn't show up until 1 or 2 hours, that's a memory leak, not inadequate memory.

Your guesses about 1440p games in the future are not remotely convincing.
 

amenx

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
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Nope

Others are garbage..DF pretty much find same thing
Also note the silly mismatch of architectures and vram bandwidth to base your conclusions on. The 3080 has gddr6x, 320-bit and 760GB/s of bandwidth vs 448GB/s bandwidth of the 2080. So its more than vram capacity as a potential factor in the vids findings.
 

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