Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

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Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
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How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,614
1,816
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So historical performance? Right? Because again, you didn't bother reading anything. Here, I'll bold it for you in bright color.
This is obviously not going anywhere. I’ll try and make it really simple. I won’t even compare cards released more than a couple weeks apart.

The 3080 is the best value this generation. The 3090 isn’t a good value, but that’s ok because it’s the fastest thing you can buy and performance per dollar is always questionable at the top end.
The 3070 is the cheapest card. It’s not the best value. For it to be the best value, it should be priced at $400ish.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,614
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I wouldn't but one off ebay for $750. I wouldn't buy one off ebay at all. The thing is, this will be the best GPU around, and scalpers know it. Demand will soar and they will get scalped hard. They will sell for hundreds over MSRP. If that happens, then for most people this will be a mid 2021 product realistically or they will hit F5 on the RDNA2 launch (which is what I will do of course).
Between COVID and scalpers, I am less than optimistic.
Yeah, we’ll see how it goes. It’s not like I need a new card anyway, but upgrading is just so much fun and it gives me an excuse to drain and clean the loop.

The fan on the R9 380 in the wife’s computer is starting to make noises and she’s wanting me to deal with it, so if it does work out it sure would be nice to have an excuse to dump the 1080 Ti in her rig so she can scroll through Facebook buttery-smooth while I get a new upgrade.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,299
3,440
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www.teamjuchems.com
Looks like RTX 2080 ti prices on ebay are tanking hard lol..I am so happy I sold all my 2080 ti GPUs back in July for a very good price...

I am curious and haven't been tracking it - it looks like you can get them for $750 "buy it now" and they were "trending" at $1050 prior. Did they just get a $300 haircut?!? :)

Also, still good for those that can get $750 today, should provide a ~$100-$150 3080 after seller fees & sales tax on new card.
 

traderjay

Senior member
Sep 24, 2015
220
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I am curious and haven't been tracking it - it looks like you can get them for $750 "buy it now" and they were "trending" at $1050 prior. Did they just get a $300 haircut?!? :)

Also, still good for those that can get $750 today, should provide a ~$100-$150 3080 after seller fees & sales tax on new card.

Yep and bigger haircut is coming. We might be "suspicious" that the 3070 is really at 2080ti level but from paper spec alone it should beat it handily.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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This isn't going to be easy on Turing resale value :

Linus is right, this is the biggest leap in over 15 years. I thought for sure Nvidia would make these things super expensive.
 
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A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Heh, I almost bought one in December new, and passed on offers of the xc2 models used when they were hovering around $900 with warranty. I ended up spending that money on the Shield Pro, and some other upgrades for happiness. Very happy with my purchases.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Heh, I almost bought one in December new, and passed on offers of the xc2 model when they were hovering around $900 with warranty. I ended up spending that money on the Shield Pro, and some other upgrades for happiness. Very happy with my purchases.

I have a 2080ti AMP, but I got that way way on back, so I don't feel too bad, I'll probably wait for refresh to move to 3000 series. I sort of feel like we'll see a 20GB 3080ti in 6-8 months. Or maybe '3080 Super' if they want to call it something else entirely.

I think it will also be interesting to see if this i the gen where GTX is ended entirely, with 3050/3060 being RTX as well.
 
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A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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I have a 2080ti AMP, but I got that way way on back, so I don't feel too bad, I'll probably wait for refresh to move to 3000 series. I sort of feel like we'll see a 20GB 3080ti in 6-8 months. Or maybe '3080 Super' if they want to call it something else entirely.

I think it will also be interesting to see if this i the gen where GTX is ended entirely, with 3050/3060 being RTX as well.
Wasn't the 2060 RTX, too? I wouldn't be surprised if you're right with your assumption. Should be around the time I'll be building. Hopefully a lot of this year's mess isn't present then.

If a 3050 goes RTX, they could replace the 1650 Super's namesake with it if the performance + improvement is there.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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It doesn't matter what they call it, or how they do it. The time is up, Navi 2 needs implementation and support to equal Nvidia 3000 in Cyberpunk and beyond or they're frankly screwed. Don't get lost in the forest for the trees. It could be called Nvidia's Donkey juice and Radeon Wheat Goblins, the fact is they have to deliver or Navi2 is dead on arrival. Let's hope they do. We've seen what monopolistic industry segment behavior is like, and no thanks to that.

Because of a single Game ?? :rolleyes:
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Because of a single Game ?? :rolleyes:

Ha, it sounds a little extreme, but bank on it, the Linus Tech Tips, Gamers Nexus, Hardware Unboxed, Jay's Tech, etc etc have tens of millions of subscribers and are hugely influential. It's going to become the defacto GPU benchmark for at least the next year or two, like a number of previous high profile titles before it.

Quake during the Voodoo 1 / Verite / etc days

Quake 2 during the Voodoo2/Riva 128/ etc days

Quake 3 during the Voodoo 3 / TNT era,

And so on and on, through Doom 3, Crysis, Battlefield 3, GTAV, Red Dead 2, etc.

Difference is that now thanks to YouTube, Twitch, Digital Foundry, and all the esports stars and flagship reviewers that PC gaming is mainstream and pop culture.

So if Cyberpunk runs dramatically better on Ampere (or hypothetical situation where Navi 2 kills it), whoever is winning that is going to get nearly endless free advertising from all of those videos, tweets, streams, yadda etc. Game is going to be insanely huge.

That and it's slightly hyperbolic 😅 but I honestly really think whoever is winning the Cyberpunk benchmark news/reviews cycle is going to have a stupidly huge advantage.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
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136
Ha, it sounds a little extreme, but bank on it, the Linus Tech Tips, Gamers Nexus, Hardware Unboxed, Jay's Tech, etc etc have tens of millions of subscribers and are hugely influential. It's going to become the defacto GPU benchmark for at least the next year or two, like a number of previous high profile titles before it.

Quake during the Voodoo 1 / Verite / etc days

Quake 2 during the Voodoo2/Riva 128/ etc days

Quake 3 during the Voodoo 3 / TNT era,

And so on and on, through Doom 3, Crysis, Battlefield 3, GTAV, Red Dead 2, etc.

Difference is that now thanks to YouTube, Twitch, Digital Foundry, and all the esports stars and flagship reviewers that PC gaming is mainstream and pop culture.

So if Cyberpunk runs dramatically better on Ampere (or hypothetical situation where Navi 2 kills it), whoever is winning that is going to get nearly endless free advertising from all of those videos, tweets, streams, yadda etc. Game is going to be insanely huge.

That and it's slightly hyperbolic 😅 but I honestly really think whoever is winning the Cyberpunk benchmark news/reviews cycle is going to have a stupidly huge advantage.

So let me check this,

IF AMD RDNA 2 will be faster in all other games except Cyberpunk, nobody will care and everyone will recommend the Ampere cards simple because of Cyberpunk ???
Thats not going to hapen.

Also to note,

RX5700XT without even having any RT capability (and all the problems with the drivers) and released at the same time as RTX2060 Super, in July's Steam Hardware Survey almost had 42% vs 58% the RTX2060 Super
RX5700XT steam hardware survey 0.81%
RTX2060 Super steam hardware survey 1.09%

Now you are telling me that even though RDNA 2 will also have RT capabilities they are screwed because of the performance of Ampere in a single game like Cyberpunk ???
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Let's be honest though, if one or the other is notably faster in Cyberpunk, it's probably not going to be a one off situation, it will almost certainly be indicative of a wider scenario of overall supremacy. It's just that Cyberpunk will carry by far the biggest importance in scores, the 'headline' so to speak. Nothing else launching has near the hype. Another Assassins Creed? Another Calladooty? Eh. Not going to really move the needle I don't think hype wise. Cyberpunk will sell GPUs by the metric ton, be they Amperes or Navis.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
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Let's be honest though, if one or the other is notably faster in Cyberpunk, it's probably not going to be a one off situation, it will almost certainly be indicative of a wider scenario of overall supremacy. It's just that Cyberpunk will carry by far the biggest importance in scores, the 'headline' so to speak. Nothing else launching has near the hype. Another Assassins Creed? Another Calladooty? Eh. Not going to really move the needle I don't think hype wise. Cyberpunk will sell GPUs by the metric ton, be they Amperes or Navis.

It will sell RDNA2 by a wide margin in the form of Xbox Series X and PS5.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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Nvidia left a considerable gap in their lineup between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. Some people suspected they had a 3070 Ti in the works (with possible 16GB or GDDR6).

This does indeed seem to be the case:

It seems the lineup, after AMD's launch, will be something like this:
  • 8GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 for $499
  • 16GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 Ti for $599
  • 10GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 for $699
  • 20GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 Ti for $899 (or $799 if we're lucky but I doubt it)
With prices varying somewhat based on how competitive AMD is

EDIT:
had incorrect the price for RTX 3800
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
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I haven't used an Nvidia GPU in almost 10 years. But I gotta say, between the AI and RT features, and the promise of 2089 Ti level performance, I'm reeeeally tempted by the 3070. If AMD can't bring the same performance and feature set at that price point, I may just switch from red to green.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,246
639
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Nvidia left a considerable gap in their lineup between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. Some people suspected they had a 3070 Ti in the works (with possible 16GB or GDDR6).

This does indeed seem to be the case:

It seems the lineup, after AMD's launch, will be something like this:
  • 8GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 for $499
  • 16GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 Ti for $599
  • 10GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 for $699
  • 20GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 Ti for $899 (or $799 if we're lucky but I doubt it)
With prices varying somewhat based on how competitive AMD is

EDIT:
had incorrect the price for RTX 3800
I wouldn't mind a 3080ti for $899 but I also don't want to wait another year having already skipped the 20 series. I definitely want to play cyberpunk maxed out.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,774
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I wouldn't mind a 3080ti for $899 but I also don't want to wait another year having already skipped the 20 series. I definitely want to play cyberpunk maxed out.

Well If AMD competes we'll get the Ti sooner rather than later (considering the 3070 Ti leak from Lenovo I linked above). If AMD doesn't compete, yeah, it will probably be a while later.

BTW I'm also looking to upgrade for Cyberpunk, and I really hope AMD's cards are also out by that time.
 

Asterox

Golden Member
May 15, 2012
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Well I have no idea, just the rumors we've had to work with, basically that big Navi is a gigantic version the 5700XT, but no dedicated Raytracing or Deep Learning cores.

If they're competitive, and have answers to RTSS 2.0 and have competitive Raytracing I'll be super happy, as that would be good news for absolutely everyone. But this late in the game (2 years after RTX launch??) I think we would have at least some decent leaks by now, no?

Not even close, "if you now tiny non important details or diferencies"

RDNA 2

- Ray Tracing

- IPC is higher

- much higher CU count , but power consumption is significantly lower


For example look at X Box X GPU power consumption.That is all you need to see.

RX 5700XT, 40 CU, 1700mhz, power consumption can push up to 240-250W

X Box X, RDNA2 52 CU, 1800mhz, GPU power consumption about 130-140W

 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
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Nvidia left a considerable gap in their lineup between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. Some people suspected they had a 3070 Ti in the works (with possible 16GB or GDDR6).

This does indeed seem to be the case:

It seems the lineup, after AMD's launch, will be something like this:
  • 8GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 for $499
  • 16GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 Ti for $599
  • 10GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 for $699
  • 20GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 Ti for $899 (or $799 if we're lucky but I doubt it)
With prices varying somewhat based on how competitive AMD is

EDIT:
had incorrect the price for RTX 3800

If the vram configuration in those leaks is correct, this is going to be a very strange lineup.

3070 8GB vs 3070Ti 16GB vs 3080 10GB.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,614
1,816
136
Nvidia left a considerable gap in their lineup between RTX 3070 and RTX 3080. Some people suspected they had a 3070 Ti in the works (with possible 16GB or GDDR6).

This does indeed seem to be the case:

It seems the lineup, after AMD's launch, will be something like this:
  • 8GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 for $499
  • 16GB GDDR6 RTX 3700 Ti for $599
  • 10GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 for $699
  • 20GB GDDR6x RTX 3800 Ti for $899 (or $799 if we're lucky but I doubt it)
With prices varying somewhat based on how competitive AMD is

EDIT:
had incorrect the price for RTX 3800
The 3070 Ti is weirdly positioned if it comes out even reasonably close to launch. Double the VRAM and probably more shaders than the 3070 with very little room to slot in above it in price would really pressure the 3070 below it. Likewise, you'll still have a big shader gap to the 3080 above it, but for anyone blanching at the 10GB on that card having the cheaper 3070 Ti launch with 16GB would definitely make you think twice about waiting on a 3080 Ti.

This would instead make a lot of sense to launch 2021 alongside a 3080 Ti in a Super style refresh, but if that's the case you'd think Nvidia would want to clamp down on the rumors now.
 
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