America's secret war with Iran

[Evander]

With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side, and John "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" doesn't exactly fill me hope for peace. So one of my biggest worries for the next for years will be if America will preempt another war, sinking this country deeper into a financial black hole.

This video makes the argument that we are already at war with Iran, by proxy:
http://current.com/items/89438469_america_s_secret_war

Things aren't looking so good, and Biden's "Obama will be tested" comment
http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit...0/biden-to-suppor.html
and Colin Powell's recent comment on Meet the Press on how Obama will face a "Crisis" on Jan 21/22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LDBOPcHpeo
it almost seems like the writing is on the wall

 

[Excelsior]

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

Obama has said Iran is a threat. Iran isnt going to stop enriching uranium. So after they talk, and nothing happens, then what?

Obama is very hawkish.

 

[Evander]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8_SNVJcpU
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/...7340,L-3592480,00.html

Also related to this topic:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5660

 

[StageLeft]

The shattering of oil prices is going to assist in the world's constraint of Iran. Economic sanctions are harder to stomach when its government is facing major budget problems now. It needs at least $75/barrel to even keep its head at all above water.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

Obama has said Iran is a threat. Iran isnt going to stop enriching uranium. So after they talk, and nothing happens, then what?

Obama is very hawkish.

Of course he has. Can you imagine what the populace would say/how they would react if Obama told them Iran wasn't a threat? Think about it.

He is as hawkish as he needs to be, IMO. And until he wins this election and starts wars or invades another country without cause, I won't worry.

 

[Evander]

In the first video of the second post he started saying Iran wasn't a threat (and then flip flopped when a later video was merged into it). I don't recall the populace saying that the sky was falling when he mentioned Iran wasn't a threat. The real question is how will the populace react when he later pitches an Iran war in the same style that Bush pitched Iraq?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Evander

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8_SNVJcpU
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/...7340,L-3592480,00.html

Also related to this topic:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5660

Fair play on the first video. I agree with the first clip and partly with the second but it is odd how different they are...

On the O'Reily interview though, its obvious he isn't being hawkish enough for Bill and his listeners. "But would you prepare for a military action!" He says he wouldn't take military action off the table, naturally. What did you want him to say? Then Bill goes on to say..."Ahhhh, ehhh well Diplomacy might work.......its all hypothetical." You can hear his utter disdain for the mere idea of diplomacy. As if it is bullshit to begin with. Christ.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Evander
In the first video of the second post he started saying Iran wasn't a threat (and then flip flopped when a later video was merged into it). I don't recall the populace saying that the sky was falling when he mentioned Iran wasn't a threat. The real question is how will the populace react when he later pitches an Iran war in the same style that Bush pitched Iraq?

And how many people heard/saw that first video? I've been following this race quite closely and this is the first time I've seen it. It was playing during the Kentucky primary night? I watched that briefly, but it wasn't particularly exciting as we all knew Clinton was going to win that night.

So now you can see into the future and you know Obama is going to pitch a war with Iran just like Bush did? What in the fuck.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Excelsior

I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side

How do folks go from "He wants to sit down and speak with Ahmadinejad face to face without any preconditions!" to "I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side."

Obama has said Iran is a threat. Iran isnt going to stop enriching uranium. So after they talk, and nothing happens, then what?

Obama is very hawkish.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

--snip--

IN LIGHT of Biden's dire warning about his running-mate, the central question that Americans ought to be asking themselves is whether or not Biden is correct. Is it true that Obama projects a posture of weakness and incompetence internationally and is it likely that this posture reflects reality?

--snip--


Iran's pre-US election behavior indicates that Iran will waste no time testing Obama's mettle. Iran is behaving as if it fully expects Obama to do what his supporter Rev. Jesse Jackson expects him to do. That is, like Jackson, Iran expects Obama to end "Zionist control" of US foreign policy. And to aid the process, the Iranians are willing to leave US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan alone as they attack Israel with their nascent nuclear arsenal shortly after Obama is inaugurated.

In his remarks on Sunday Biden made clear that he does not believe that Obama will agree to use the US military to confront Iran or any other enemy. His rejection of the use of force is not due to a sense that force is not necessary. Rather it is due to his dim assessment of America's military capabilities. In his words, "We do not have the military capacity, nor have we ever, quite frankly, in the last 20 years, to dictate outcomes. ? It's so much more complicated than that. And Barack gets it."

Given the Democratic ticket's belief that the US military is too weak to protect American interests, it could be expected that Obama and Biden would support strengthening the US military. But the opposite is the case. Obama has called for slashing the US military budget, cutting back the US's anti-missile programs and scaling back drastically the US nuclear arsenal. That is, although Obama has claimed that he will never take the option of the use of force off the table, by refusing to strengthen the US military which he perceives as weak, he is making certain that the US military option is ineffectual.

Military sources cite the new US timeline: By late January, 2009, Iran will have accumulated enough low-grade enriched uranium (up to 5%) for its ?break-out? to weapons grade (90%) material within a short time. For this, the Iranians have achieved the necessary technology. In February, they can move on to start building their first nuclear bomb.
------
Israeli Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz said in June that Israel would be forced to strike Iran?s nuclear reactor if Tehran continues to pursue its controversial uranium enrichment program, Haaretz reported.
------
Top officials in Iran are proposing a preemptive strike against Israel to avoid an assault on its nuclear reactors, Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported Wednesday.
------
During a visit to Bahrain, Iran?s parliament speaker Ali Larijani said Wednesday, Oct. 22, that Tehran would prefer Democratic senator Barack Obama in the White House next year. He also said the United States is now too busy dealing with a financial crisis to consider attacking Iran over the nuclear programme.

"The risk was low before," he said. "But now I am 100 per cent certain that the United States will not unleash a war against Iran.
-----

The situation with Iran is most likely what Joe Biden was talking about when he said "Mark my words" "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy." Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy." "we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

The questions are - who strikes first and what will Obama do?
If Obama orders a pre-emptive strike on Iran would it not be apparent that he is right?
If Israel strikes first and Obama sides with Iran, Joe's prophecy would be fulfilled.
What if Iran strikes first? Would Obama go to war with Iran?

 

[Evander]

Obama has said Iran is a threat. Iran isnt going to stop enriching uranium. So after they talk, and nothing happens, then what?
Obama is very hawkish.

Here is an interesting op-ed piece on how such a situation might play out:
http://www.americanthinker.com...ama_and_a_nuclear.htmlhttp://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/president_obama_and_a_nuclear.html

So now you can see into the future and you know Obama is going to pitch a war with Iran just like Bush did? What in the fuck.

I can't predict with certainty that he will pitch a war any better than you can predict with certainty that he won't, but in addition to all the disturbing links I've posted so far here's a pretty scary direct quote from Obama in an ABC article from June 4:
abc

*Obama said he would engage in such diplomacy "with no illusions about the Iranian regime."

"I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon," he said, repeating himself for emphasis, "everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear, everything."

Echoing the Bush administration, Obama added: "I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally, Israel. Do not be confused."*

That is chillingly similar to how Bush warned how we cannot afford to wait for the smoking gun when he pitched the war - weapons he claimed would be used against us and our allies. The only difference between now and then is that this time we are explicity told which allies we are looking out for (Israel), and this time we are dealing with Iran, which actually does have nuclear capabilities, but doesn't have the bomb yet. As they get closer and closer in coming months (as indirectly indicated by the Biden and Powell comments) I expect Obama will pitch the war.

 

[Evander]

Been digging around some more to find Biden's thoughts on Iran:
Biden: Israel should accept 'nuclear' Iran

That was just last month. I agree with him, and he seems to disagree with Obama, and so far I haven't seen anything to indicate him saying he supports attacking Iran, and in fact seems to have a long, strong and consistent record of opposing any such attack. That's good to know, but Obama will be the one with his finger on the button.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Evander
With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side,

Saber rattling? HUH??????????

Obamas own words

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Evander
With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side,

Saber rattling? HUH??????????

Obamas own words

Getting rid of nukes is a pipe dream. No one is going to even significantly disarm themselves with faith that everyone would as well. The world may be run by assholes but not dumbasses.

If "diplomacy," if that's what they want to call it, doesn't stop Iran from obtaining nukes, what is Obama gonna do? What would McCain do? Economic sanctions. That's step 2. And rest assured, economic sanctions won't be to prevent war, it'll be the start of one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1YkQs5nXQ

Madness.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Evander
With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side,

Saber rattling? HUH??????????

Obamas own words

Getting rid of nukes is a pipe dream. No one is going to even significantly disarm themselves with faith that everyone would as well. The world may be run by assholes but not dumbasses.

If "diplomacy," if that's what they want to call it, doesn't stop Iran from obtaining nukes, what is Obama gonna do? What would McCain do? Economic sanctions. That's step 2. And rest assured, economic sanctions won't be to prevent war, it'll be the start of one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1YkQs5nXQ

Madness.

All of Mankind has not evolved to the point that a lot of people would like to believe. Some individuals likely have, but those that have not negate that. I do not want to surrender my current spot in the food chain. A lot of good People have died defending that spot for me.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Evander
With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side,

Saber rattling? HUH??????????

Obamas own words

Getting rid of nukes is a pipe dream. No one is going to even significantly disarm themselves with faith that everyone would as well. The world may be run by assholes but not dumbasses.

If "diplomacy," if that's what they want to call it, doesn't stop Iran from obtaining nukes, what is Obama gonna do? What would McCain do? Economic sanctions. That's step 2. And rest assured, economic sanctions won't be to prevent war, it'll be the start of one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1YkQs5nXQ

Madness.

All of Mankind has not evolved to the point that a lot of people would like to believe. Some individuals likely have, but those that have not negate that. I do not want to surrender my current spot in the food chain. A lot of good People have died defending that spot for me.

Yeah, those damn Persians, why do they have to be such a threat to us? Why do they makes us murder them?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Evander
With regards to Iran, I see nothing but saber rattling from the Obama side,

Saber rattling? HUH??????????

Obamas own words

Getting rid of nukes is a pipe dream. No one is going to even significantly disarm themselves with faith that everyone would as well. The world may be run by assholes but not dumbasses.

If "diplomacy," if that's what they want to call it, doesn't stop Iran from obtaining nukes, what is Obama gonna do? What would McCain do? Economic sanctions. That's step 2. And rest assured, economic sanctions won't be to prevent war, it'll be the start of one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1YkQs5nXQ

Madness.

All of Mankind has not evolved to the point that a lot of people would like to believe. Some individuals likely have, but those that have not negate that. I do not want to surrender my current spot in the food chain. A lot of good People have died defending that spot for me.

Yeah, those damn Persians, why do they have to be such a threat to us? Why do they makes us murder them?

Why do they want me to give up my spot?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Why do they want me to give up my spot?

Ask them. I'm sure they're under your bed, or in your closet. Careful, if you turn the lights on, they become invisible.

 

[gevorg]

I just hope that there won't be another 9/11 that would make Obama change his mind and want to invade Iran (McCain's win almost guarantees invasion of Iran regardless of what happens).

 

[Evander]

Originally posted by: gevorg
I just hope that there won't be another 9/11 that would make Obama change his mind and want to invade Iran (McCain's win almost guarantees invasion of Iran regardless of what happens).

Sadly, I don't it will take another 9/11. Look at his words (from abc article linked above):
"I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon," he said, repeating himself for emphasis, "everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear, everything." And look at everything I have posted thus far.

Key word there is "prevent" and key phrase is "everything in my power" - it's quite clear that he's not gonna wait for a smoking gun. And he need not wait months for Iran to refine their capabilities for weapons grade material - he can merely say that Iran has been trying to obtain such material from the black market, as Bush alleged that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa back in 2002. This report from the Washington Institute from June '08:
The Last Resort Consequences of Preventive Military Action against Iran
touches upon such a scenario (it's not about any candidate in particular, just US foreign policy).

Here is one person's opinion on this report:
*In a nutshell, "The Last Resort, Consequence of Military Action against Iran" weighs the pros and cons of both deterrence and prevention strategies towards the Gulf nation.

The document is filled with academic constructs, sophisticated policy considerations, verbal acrobatics, and qualifying statements carefully brought together to justify the conclusion that going to war against Iran is in America's best interests.

The two 'strategic experts' that championed the cause of the war against Iraq, are now trying to re-focus the nation's energies on the so-called dangers of Iran's weapons of mass destruction.

They do not argue in favour of a pre-emptive war because such a move would require congressional approval.

Rather they opt for "prevention action" even though such a conflict could result in the deaths of thousands of Iranians and Americans.
...
They warn that the US should not wait for a smoking gun to materialise before taking action and say waiting for clear-cut evidence "may amount to de facto acquiescence in a nuclear-armed Iran".*

 

[Evander]

Did some more digging, I found something that may contradict what Biden said earlier about how Israel should accept a nuclear equipped Iran:
msnbc
?I want to remind those of you ? who don't know me and those of you who do know me what my record has been. It has been unstinting in the defense and support of Israel,? he said at a community center, having discussed at length his travels there and work as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. ?I give you my word as a Biden, I would not have given up that job to be Barack Obama's vice president if I didn't -- in my gut, and in my heart, and in my head -- know that Barack Obama is exactly where I am on Israel.?

Also I found the video from the ABC story above - here is part of it with 2 commentators (I'm not endorsing anything they say, I'm just putting it out there):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1UTuYyACSA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVLXqHgLSTM

I noticed during the first video he said in regards to the Israel 2006 election
"There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organizations"
but he claims he is willing (as I think he should be) to negotiate with Iran, who is labeled by the Dept. of State as a state sponsor of terrorism:
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm
and a country whos armed forces, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, were dubbed by Obama himself in a bill he cosponsored as a terrorist organization:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com...izes_obama_for_st.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08...iddleeast/15diplo.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...a-now-cha_n_68099.html

Obama's coming preemptive strike against Iran needs to be preemptively struck down by the American people. We have done enough interventionist harm in Iran already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldgbOxDX6DE

This is probably my last post on this topic, I have other things I need to get done