Americans worry that illegal migrants threaten way of life, economy

[Harabec]

Where's Whisky16 to call everyone xenophobic racists? Abolish the border! Let them live a good life!

 

[RandomWords]

That's a stereotype.

It's a true statement if 51% is on welfare... but you're right.

Only 4% of the documented Hispanic population is on welfare (this does not apply to food stamps). Which isn't that radical considering that 2% of the White population is also on welfare and 10% of the Black population is on welfare. Because whites make up a larger portion of the population and blacks have a higher percentage in welfare - they of course make up the majority of welfare.

EDIT: Example of equation - [(316*4.1%)*.38]/(316*.77) = 2%


316 (in million) is # of people in america

4.1% is percentage of population on welfare
38% is percentage of whites that make up welfare
77% is percentage of whites that make up the population

Plug in these percentages for the other groups:
Hispanics are 15% of the welfare and 17% of the population
Blacks are 39% of the welfare and 13% of the population


(at least what is documented - these are 2013/2014 statistics) - I did a lot of rough rounding to make nice even numbers so the percentages will be skewed slightly.

The question is - how much of the Hispanic population on welfare are former illegal immigrants or current illegal immigrants American children and how does that compare to the illegal immigrant inflow. If most of the Hispanics on welfare are former illegal immigrants or their children - that would be very telling about how illegal immigrants would affect our system. Which is solved as follows:

X = # former illegal immigrants and illegals children on welfare/[(316*4.1%)*.15] = percentage of former illegal immigrants etc that make up Hispanic welfare.
Y = # former illegal immigrants etc on welfare/ former illegal immigrants etc = percentage of former illegal immigrants etc on welfare

For it to be a good thing I would say Y should be around 4% and X should ideally be less than 50%

 

[alcoholbob]

That figure seems highly dubious. Please feel free to quote any authentic sources.

Plus welfare has been highly curtailed since the time of Clinton

The Clinton welfare reforms just require you to pretend to look for work once in a while. Regarding the 80 percent figure its a statement that Mark Krikorian has made in the past (Executive Director of Center for Immigration Studies). I'll have to check what sources he uses for it.

 

[alcoholbob]

But then what is the point of a legal immigration system?

Historically our legal immigration system mainly existed to provide blue collar labor, although that was a past America where 70% of our jobs were in manufacturing so there was a real heavy demand for 19 century peasant workers and thus we had mass immigration until the turn of the 20th century.

After 1924 we adopted a quota system, based on national origin and 2% of any nation's existing population in the 1890 census. The main goal of that law was to maintain the ethnic composition of the country, as WASPs (basically Protestants of English/Germanic origin) were feeling like they were being ethnically replaced by Catholics, the Irish, Italians, and Eastern Europeans (prior to the 1924 law we took over 2 million immigrants annually) after the 1924 immigration law which limited immigration to a hard cap 150,000 a year we took well under 100k immigrants a year until the immigration reform in 1952 (increased to 270,000), and 1965 (which removed the national origins quotas, but reduced overall cap to 170,000).

So in theory, we are supposed to accept 170,000 legal immigrants a year. However the 1965 immigration law has a loophole that allows family members to chain migrate and those numbers don't fall under this "legal immigration cap", so the majority of our legal immigration is from a loophole in the law, and we accept over a 1 million legal immigrants a year due to this loophole. Illegal immigration is estimated at about 1.5 million a year. So currently we take about 15 times as many immigrants as people were led to believe when they passed the 1965 law...

Really we need overhaul our immigration laws, don't let people bring in everyone they are related to because that just promotes the creation of ethnic enclaves rather than promoting an assimilationist ethic. We should have a larger cap on legal immigration, say 300,000, but completely close off family migration except immediate nuclear family--wife and children only. And then enforce our laws on the Mexican border. Unfortunately, both parties want waves of cheap labor/votes so instead we have a country that will probably just collapse from overused social services before the close of the century.

 

[compuwiz1]

Everyone in America wants a bunch of dirty, uneducated, broke, potentially disease laden illegal immigrants moving into their neighborhoods now! They will immediately adapt to creating special signs to translate for them, because they don't speak english. The doctor offices and hospitals will write off their medical bills and they will either be subsidized by joe tax payer, or the government will build more "migrant clinics".

Meanwhile, the women will produce more children for the purpose of EIC, drive those kids to the local 7-11 store, where they pay for all their snacks on the tax payer funded EBT cards. When everyone is happy and they have checked out, she will load them all into the Cadillac Escalade with spinner wheels, for the trip home to BBQ some tri-tip on the tax payer dime. Life is really good here, especially, when you can exploit the system.

Think this is fiction? No, it happens and it really pisses off those of us who were born here and work every day. What and who do we work for? Working for those fuckers was never my plan in life, but apparently my government doesn't allow me to work my own plan.

 

[Moonbeam]

As I said several times before, LEGALS = si, ILLEGALS = hell no. Enforce the current immigration law for EVERYONE.

Before any of you say "comprehensive immigration reform", look up the so called 1986 comprehensive immigration reform and what were the results from that.





http://news.yahoo.com/americans-worry-illegal-migrants-threaten-way-life-economy-050336265.html

I believe what you meant to say is that Conservative Brain Defectives worry about immigrants destroying their lazy-assed white privilege.

 

[Matt1970]

After some probation period, if you meet certain criteria, learn English, get a job, stay out of prison, pay taxes, I don't see why not. Citizenship is not the main goal for most of these people, it's better life for them and their kids. They are going to come whether you give them citizenship or not. Citizenship is only scary for Republicans because they don't want more minority voters.

So we need to look at citizenship like the Olympics with the only hurdle being the fence.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

After some probation period, if you meet certain criteria, learn English, get a job, stay out of prison, pay taxes, I don't see why not. Citizenship is not the main goal for most of these people, it's better life for them and their kids. They are going to come whether you give them citizenship or not. Citizenship is only scary for Republicans because they don't want more minority voters.

Why do nations have immigration laws?

 

[rudder]

That figure seems highly dubious. Please feel free to quote any authentic sources.

Plus welfare has been highly curtailed since the time of Clinton

Curtailed? All of that entitlement spending data coming out in the last 4-5 years must be incorrect then.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Because it is in the interests of the elites of both parties that illegal immigration continues.

Minor correction, but significant. The elites on the dem side want, what they perceive to be, a permanent underclass that will vote for them. The elites on the rep side (the chambers of commerce for example) want a permanent underclass for cheap labor.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

After some probation period, if you meet certain criteria, learn English, get a job, stay out of prison, pay taxes, I don't see why not. Citizenship is not the main goal for most of these people, it's better life for them and their kids. They are going to come whether you give them citizenship or not. Citizenship is only scary for Republicans because they don't want more minority voters.

Let em all in specially those who are seeking H-1B visas. Who knows maybe you'll be let go and replaced by one.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Business owners looking to exploit cheap labor need to stop being so greedy.

Look at what happened in Georgia: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ge...w-leading-to-crops-rotting-in-farmers-fields/

This fallacy of illegals lined up at the White House with their hands out waiting for a bag of money needs to stop. There are certainly cases where illegals are here to exploit government programs. But, the majority are here to actually work. And greedy business owners take advantage of that - because they don't want to pay higher salaries.

So, two things happen:
1) the American citizen is labeled as an entitled over demanding employee
2) the illegal is labeled as a leech sucking on our tax dollars

Yet, the business owner, who is looking to get the cheapest possible labor, gets off scott free. I am not sure why the business owner is being protected like this,...

:hmm:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Let em all in specially those who are seeking H-1B visas. Who knows maybe you'll be let go and replaced by one.

Senseacrit only wants cheap laborers to pick his produce. He has said that numerous times.

 

[squarecut1]

Yet, the business owner, who is looking to get the cheapest possible labor, gets off scott free. I am not sure why the business owner is being protected like this,...

:hmm:

Because he funds (and thus runs) both political parties, all the rhetoric notwithstanding.

 

[squarecut1]

. Regarding the 80 percent figure its a statement that Mark Krikorian has made in the past (Executive Director of Center for Immigration Studies). I'll have to check what sources he uses for it.

But that is not a neutral source. The organization is pretty much against all forms of immigration. A senior member of that organization has called for a ban on Muslim immigration as well.

Still it would be interesting to see how accurate that figure is - or whether it is even possible at all, given the privacy and legal reasons, to figure out whether a naturalized US citizen or a born citizen is receiving benefits.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Senseacrit only wants cheap laborers to pick his produce. He has said that numerous times.

He may have to pick his own produce after he's been replaced by a H-1B immigrant.

 

[-slash-]

Everyone in America wants a bunch of dirty, uneducated, broke, potentially disease laden illegal immigrants moving into their neighborhoods now! They will immediately adapt to creating special signs to translate for them, because they don't speak english. The doctor offices and hospitals will write off their medical bills and they will either be subsidized by joe tax payer, or the government will build more "migrant clinics".

Meanwhile, the women will produce more children for the purpose of EIC, drive those kids to the local 7-11 store, where they pay for all their snacks on the tax payer funded EBT cards. When everyone is happy and they have checked out, she will load them all into the Cadillac Escalade with spinner wheels, for the trip home to BBQ some tri-tip on the tax payer dime. Life is really good here, especially, when you can exploit the system.

Think this is fiction? No, it happens and it really pisses off those of us who were born here and work every day. What and who do we work for? Working for those fuckers was never my plan in life, but apparently my government doesn't allow me to work my own plan.

Pretty much. Couldn't have said it better myself, see it every damn day.

I believe what you meant to say is that Conservative Brain Defectives worry about immigrants destroying their lazy-assed white privilege.

You keep talking about a brain defect in conservatives, let me throw you a curve ball.

Legal = OK. Illegal = Not Ok. Basic definitions right?

THEN WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU LIBERALS ADVOCATING MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. ILLEGAL!!! Look up the definition for the word for Christs sake. You cannot in any way shape or form try and discuss a conservative brain defect when the liberal party cannot comprehend a single god damned word. Talk about a brain defect. Too many moonbeams straight to the dome have warped your sense of reality.

 

[-slash-]

Business owners looking to exploit cheap labor need to stop being so greedy.

Look at what happened in Georgia: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ge...w-leading-to-crops-rotting-in-farmers-fields/

This fallacy of illegals lined up at the White House with their hands out waiting for a bag of money needs to stop. There are certainly cases where illegals are here to exploit government programs. But, the majority are here to actually work. And greedy business owners take advantage of that - because they don't want to pay higher salaries.

So, two things happen:
1) the American citizen is labeled as an entitled over demanding employee
2) the illegal is labeled as a leech sucking on our tax dollars

Yet, the business owner, who is looking to get the cheapest possible labor, gets off scott free. I am not sure why the business owner is being protected like this,...

:hmm:

That is the fault of the business' themselves. If they are relying on illegal immigrants to make a buck, I have no remorse when they fail.

Some illegal worker initiatives impose fines on business' who are found to be hiring illegal immigrants. That is a step in the right direction.

The illegals want to come here to work, fine they can do that.
http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/employment/temporary.html

 

[Moonbeam]

You keep talking about a brain defect in conservatives, let me throw you a curve ball.

Legal = OK. Illegal = Not Ok. Basic definitions right?

THEN WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU LIBERALS ADVOCATING MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. ILLEGAL!!! Look up the definition for the word for Christs sake. You cannot in any way shape or form try and discuss a conservative brain defect when the liberal party cannot comprehend a single god damned word. Talk about a brain defect. Too many moonbeams straight to the dome have warped your sense of reality.

Oh my God, self, do you really want to waste your time telling this BD the score when he doesn't have the logical reasoning capacity to follow. Ah sure why not but we'll do it in a way that's fun:

To the bent straight looks crooked so you wouldn't know a curve ball if you saw one. What you throw out is just simple mindedly stupid. Don't feel bad, it's because you already feel bad that you do this, so there's no point in telling you not to feel bad. You can't hear that either.

The definition of legal and illegal means nothing to my position, it's just a box you create in your head to simplify the issue. CBDs can't handle complex ideas. They always blind themselves with simple minded certainty. So basically, you are just drooling in your own home made soup.

You use the word liberal as if you knew what it meant, but your definition is also the product of a BD. I define liberal as thinking like me. Therefore, I know that you don't know what you are talking about when you say that liberals, that's me, want more illegals in the country. That is not the case, although, again, you are too simple minded to see it.

As a liberal I am into fairness and justice, and it's not fair nor just to send the illegals who are here because of both party ineptitude and lack of will to fix the issue, (Neither side really wants to touch the issue) back to where they came from after being here and establishing a life. That would be like me, the Indian tribe of Moonbeam, with my super atomic ray gun and my inviso-impenetrable shield, forcing you so called US citizens to go back from wherever the fuck you came from.

Basically, I am a nice and empathetic person who sees the damage narrow minded bigots like you would do if you could. In other words, to me you are a fucking donkey and a cold and non-calculating ass, not that that means I don't like you. I am a nice guy, as you should now be able to see, and I can't blame you for the fact that your brain is defective. It's not your fault it is.

So when the Tribes rise up to kick out your illegal immigrant ass according to the Book of Secret Indian Plans, know that I will be there to fight for your right to stay. And I won't let the fact that you are a worthless brain defective sway my opinion. Love you unconditionally. Try to be like me. I feel the wind blowing through my kitchen door on my skin and does it ever feel good. You have no idea what joy there is in being a real liberal and the final judge of all real meaning.

 

[soulcougher73]

That's a stereotype.

And most stereotypes are true. People just dont like the truth when its bad.

 

[-slash-]

Oh my God, self, do you really want to waste your time telling this BD the score when he doesn't have the logical reasoning capacity to follow. Ah sure why not but we'll do it in a way that's fun:

To the bent straight looks crooked so you wouldn't know a curve ball if you saw one. What you throw out is just simple mindedly stupid. Don't feel bad, it's because you already feel bad that you do this, so there's no point in telling you not to feel bad. You can't hear that either.

The definition of legal and illegal means nothing to my position, it's just a box you create in your head to simplify the issue. CBDs can't handle complex ideas. They always blind themselves with simple minded certainty. So basically, you are just drooling in your own home made soup.

You use the word liberal as if you knew what it meant, but your definition is also the product of a BD. I define liberal as thinking like me. Therefore, I know that you don't know what you are talking about when you say that liberals, that's me, want more illegals in the country. That is not the case, although, again, you are too simple minded to see it.

As a liberal I am into fairness and justice, and it's not fair nor just to send the illegals who are here because of both party ineptitude and lack of will to fix the issue, (Neither side really wants to touch the issue) back to where they came from after being here and establishing a life. That would be like me, the Indian tribe of Moonbeam, with my super atomic ray gun and my inviso-impenetrable shield, forcing you so called US citizens to go back from wherever the fuck you came from.

Basically, I am a nice and empathetic person who sees the damage narrow minded bigots like you would do if you could. In other words, to me you are a fucking donkey and a cold and non-calculating ass, not that that means I don't like you. I am a nice guy, as you should now be able to see, and I can't blame you for the fact that your brain is defective. It's not your fault it is.

So when the Tribes rise up to kick out your illegal immigrant ass according to the Book of Secret Indian Plans, know that I will be there to fight for your right to stay. And I won't let the fact that you are a worthless brain defective sway my opinion. Love you unconditionally. Try to be like me. I feel the wind blowing through my kitchen door on my skin and does it ever feel good. You have no idea what joy there is in being a real liberal and the final judge of all real meaning.

Thats some damn good grass man.D:

 

[Moonbeam]

Thats some damn good grass man.D:

Years ago I did a thread describing this common reaction that has been thrown at me a million times and how those who do so have no idea just how unoriginal they are while patting themselves on the back for their seeming originality.

I do not use drugs.

 

[-slash-]

Years ago I did a thread describing this common reaction that has been thrown at me a million times and how those who do so have no idea just how unoriginal they are while patting themselves on the back for their seeming originality.

I do not use drugs.

I was politely calling you a fucking lunatic. Your thought process is so warped it's not even worth attempting to rebut that pile of drivel you posted. Carry on with your opinion, that is your right as an American.

 

[MongGrel]

I could go off for three pages on the disappearing middle class, but Engineer usually does it better and it has been a long week and I just want to veg a bit.

Both ends of the spectrum are deteriorating the country into two class Upper Class vs Pheasants type of thing while stamping out the

Bourgeoisie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie


all together just to make it a two class system in the long term.


Why bother with that when you can ship it overseas and have a two class system.

Is a bit of a tangent, was generalizing.

 

[Wreckem]

Why even bother to have immigration law or a border? Why even bother to be a sovereign nation?


Let see, by your logic, let all the criminals in jails go, set them free. Look, we solve our jail crowding problem. Wooohoooo. D:



We DID have a huge comprehensive immigration reform in 1986 under Reagan for several million of ILLEGALS then. What were the results? So we are going to do another one, bigger and more ILLEGALS and this time, it will magically work? WOw, just wow.

Something about do the same thing and expect different result = insane.



Agree totally with your 2nd paragraph. Why others have to wait for years and years to get in the LEGAL way while these ILLEGALS can just cut in line? Why we can not pick the best of the best from around the world for our next Andy Grove (Intel), Jerry Yang (Yahoo) and so on? Why we have to pick the illiterate peasants with no skill and no English and not the smart ones to improve our economy? That's I do not understand the logic.

The 1986 act was not comprehensive. It was fairly limited in scope.

The INA Act of 1965 was the last comprehensive reform. Everything since the INA act of 1965 has slightly altered the INA of 1965 here and there, creating a poor patchwork of immigration code.