Americans Too broke to go bankrupt

[Ronstang]

I guess this is the only way for the stupid to learn not to live beyond their means. Credit has it's place but it is really only for short term convenience and things like house mortgages, business loans etc. The dumb are learning the consequences of buying everything you want with the equity in your home or the credit card you never could hope to ever pay off.

I really have no sympathy. I have ALWAYS lived within my means, even when I had next to nothing. The funny thing about living within your means and being careful about what you buy is one day you wake up and you have a ton of money saved up....so much so you can now actually buy pretty much what you want within reason with little financial impact.

These people are all a product of the "Now" generation, for many of them there isn't going to be much of a later.

 

[Lithium381]

So you can keep the stuff you can't pay for.

this here



in the case of not being able to pay for the house, the bank still gets the house and can make something off of it. . . . forgiving student loans leaves you with NOTHING

 

[monovillage]

Looking at the way some dumb shits spend money I don't have a lot of sympathy for many of them. They don't have an income problem, they have a spending problem. How long can you spend $10,000 - $50,000 a year more than you make before you run into problems. Don't buy that new car, don't live in a great house or apartment in the ritzy area of town, don't puke out money one movies, dinners out, designer clothes, smart phones and other luxuries if you don't have the money to pay for them.

I'm not saying there aren't people that need bankruptcy help and protection, but personally knowing some of the people going through it it's hard for me to build up a lot of sympathy.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Looking at the way some dumb shits spend money I don't have a lot of sympathy for many of them. They don't have an income problem, they have a spending problem. How long can you spend $10,000 - $50,000 a year more than you make before you run into problems. Don't buy that new car, don't live in a great house or apartment in the ritzy area of town, don't puke out money one movies, dinners out, designer clothes, smart phones and other luxuries if you don't have the money to pay for them.

I'm not saying there aren't people that need bankruptcy help and protection, but personally knowing some of the people going through it it's hard for me to build up a lot of sympathy.

A lot of people didn't know they wouldn't be able to pay those things back when they bought them.

Because bankruptcy is not "telling everyone you have no money", it's discharging debts through the court. After the filing, you simply don't owe that money anymore. Is there anyone out there who thinks handling that filing and figuring out what all the debts are and all that stuff will be done for free? If so, by whom?

Which is why I'm pretty sure some people are still able to afford filing for bankruptcy. However, it is an interesting catch-22. And catch-22s are kind of stupid.

 

[monovillage]

A lot of people didn't know they wouldn't be able to pay those things back when they bought them.


Which is why I'm pretty sure some people are still able to afford filing for bankruptcy. However, it is an interesting catch-22. And catch-22s are kind of stupid.

And a lot of them did, but like gamblers with a problem they were hoping some kind of big win would change the outcome of their greed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Looking at the way some dumb shits spend money I don't have a lot of sympathy for many of them. They don't have an income problem, they have a spending problem. How long can you spend $10,000 - $50,000 a year more than you make before you run into problems. Don't buy that new car, don't live in a great house or apartment in the ritzy area of town, don't puke out money one movies, dinners out, designer clothes, smart phones and other luxuries if you don't have the money to pay for them.

I'm not saying there aren't people that need bankruptcy help and protection, but personally knowing some of the people going through it it's hard for me to build up a lot of sympathy.

The hate for Americans is strong in this thread

 

[monovillage]

The hate for Americans is strong in this thread

Then why quote me? You're the one that hates capitalism, freedom and the things that made America great. Stupidity is not what made America great, you can stop practicing it now.

 

[highland145]

So someone can get financial relief.

If a person had $2000 hanging around, odds are there wouldn't be a need for Bankruptcy.

Let the government pay on the promise of possible future monies? That won't work out well. Just quit paying, give back the stuff you can't pay for. You can't go to jail for owing $$, contrary to the opinion of some around here.

 

[Ninjahedge]

You do not sell cigarettes to minors. You offer your first hit of crack "for free".

People who do not know any better are taken advantage of. The housing bubble was a big example of this. People trying to get you to sign a mortgage they knew you could not pay, but made it look like you could, then selling THAT mortgage off to another firm to get rid of their own risk.

The sharks came out.

Now we have a bunch of people saying "well I don't care, they deserve it, good riddance!" Until half the houses in their neighborhood go on the market in foreclosure and the property value of their OWN place drops below even what they owe on it with a 20% DP a 5 years of good payments. The local economy dips, they lose their job and we start getting an economic dust bowl.

Similar arguments were made for the financial institutions that were leveraged way beyond their assets and then bailed out BY US because their failure would have been disastrous (since they were allowed to have their hands in so many different things, their collapse would have had a BIG ripple).

The problem is not in the bail out, but in the recovery. Those companies that were bailed out came back and started making money again (and where do you think that money came from...). We STILL have not changed many of the rules that allowed them to do what they did in the first place and we may be forced to learn again in 20 years (if we get out of this mess).

Same thing with people. We need a way to minimize loss. Foreclosing on half the houses in an area ruins their value, and invalidates that asset. If they did it slower, they would have retained value and been able to recoup some loss, but they were bailing not solidifying their base.

And the US government allowed them to do that.


Bottom line is simple, we have let the markets become too open and volatile in the name of "progress", but all we have done is make it easier to raid and run for those that know how.

Our whole financial system is so convoluted and screwed up we need to seriously rework it before someone pulls the wrong stick and all our marbles fall.

 

[monovillage]

Not that I disagree with you Ninja, but most of the bankruptcies I know personally have nothing to do with housing.

 

[Ninjahedge]

It is hard to address all points w/o making a "TL;DR" post...

 

[Fern]

In California the filing fee is $299 for chapter 7... I think that is the current fee... chapter 11 is $274...

You don't need an attorney to file. It is a basic form you'd fill out listing debts and assets, etc. Just like filing for divorce... it don't take much and in some cases the fees can be waived. Of course, income, I think, is the primary waiver feature...

Thank you.

Even if you are not a lawyer you allowed to represent yourself in court. That includes bankruptcy court.

There's no good reason a person can't handle this by themselves.

Otherwise, it is possible that you don't need to file. Your creditors can file bankruptcy against you to collect. I.e., they do it for you. However, you'd still need to represent yourself (but you get out of the fee).

I wouldn't be surprised if the fee could be waived for 'cause'. The govt does this in other areas (e.g., tax collection problems.)

Fern

 

[piasabird]

I think if you talk to a bank properly, and tell them you will vacate the premises, they may be willing to pay some of the costs on settling the debt just to get you out of the house. Better take all of your household goods and go before the bank takes everything. If you wait till you are thousands behind on your loan, it will only be worse.

 

[Mursilis]

A lot of people didn't know they wouldn't be able to pay those things back when they bought them.

How do you not know these things? If you have to take out a loan to buy something, that should be a pretty clear message that you need to keep an eye on your money. I simply don't understand how people can consistently spend more than they make, and not know that's not a sustainable pattern.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Not understanding does not mean not happening.

I don't understand how Dancing With The Stars can be so popular it can take over 4 HOURS of prime time television (not counting promos) a week.