Americans struggling to make ends meet

[Naeeldar]

I'm still wondering how Prodigy is claiming $25k is a decent salary these days. When high school kids are at that level or close to it working at McDonalds.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm still wondering how Prodigy is claiming $25k is a decent salary these days. When high school kids are at that level or close to it working at McDonalds.

Really, these kids are earning $12/hour and working 40 hours a week/52 weeks a year?

$12 x 40 = 480 ........ 480 x 52 = 24,960

 

[Naeeldar]

Really, these kids are earning $12/hour and working 40 hours a week/52 weeks a year?

$12 x 40 = 480 ........ 480 x 52 = 24,960

McDonalds in my area starts people at $10.50 - $11 an hour. I'm usually a rough example but yes they make that hourly wage. The house ranges widely but there are absolutely kids making that. I made $15 an hour at 19 as an assistant manager at LA Fitness 9 years ago. And yes I worked 40 hour weeks. So that was $32k.

My whole point is just that $25k is not a decent wage for any adult. You start making the case for $35k+ and I'll agree.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

McDonalds in my area starts people at $10.50 - $11 an hour. I'm usually a rough example but yes they make that hourly wage. The house ranges widely but there are absolutely kids making that. I made $15 an hour at 19 as an assistant manager at LA Fitness 9 years ago. And yes I worked 40 hour weeks. So that was $32k.

My whole point is just that $25k is not a decent wage for any adult. You start making the case for $35k+ and I'll agree.

Here in the Houston area they start at $7.25/hr and after a several years get to $10/hr. The only full time workers are managers.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

This. He sounds like an awful role model, exactly the kind of materialistic, greedy pig he accuses "the other side" of being.

Yeah, I'm a pig because I buy my kids presents for Christmas. Good lord come out of your idiot bubbles and join the rest of us in the real world please.

As for the $25k, I live near Atlanta and most uneducated jobs start at minimum and you might hit $10 in a few years if you're lucky. So yes, $25k is a decent amount of money here for an uneducated worker.

 

[desy]

Jumping all over him over buying gifts is stupid its the societal norm.
It is supposed to be the gift of GIVING not getting, and you don't have to go large on gifts remember its the THOUGHT that counts.
Which Im sure hes taken into account, before I could afford the xbox360 w connect we bought a game cube just as they were going out of fasion, and lots of used games available on the web saved a lot of cash. Kids were young so they werent caught up in the status thing yet and were thrilled.

The topic is families struggling to make ends meet and I can see that back, in the 70's our house was 850 sq ft we had one car one bathroom one fridge one tv and 5 of us in it. People lived w less , things cost a lot more compartively cept for houses.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

*sigh* Yes, I am a horrible father for wanting to give my family an enjoyable holiday without standing in line for Black Friday or running up any debt. You got me. Oh where did I go OH SO WRONG with my life?

What a pack of losers.

How much money must you spend over Christmas to have an enjoyable holiday? A rough estimate. $100 per kid? $500 per kid? $1000 per kid?

 

[kache]

No sympathy for Americans living paycheck to paycheck. Not when what % has expensive data plans and smart phones? How many iCrap gadgets and new Android phones get sold every month and every year?

Look at Black Friday and all the waste people were committing just to save some money on something they didn't actually need.

Americans live paycheck to paycheck because they like to be consumer-whores and live for the moment instead of saving for the future. Our entire economy works on the premise that Americans don't save money and spend it like drunken sailors. That's why tax cuts work on the middle class, they don't save it, every dime uncle sam gives back goes right out to the department stores.

Once I would have agreed with you, but after living with a smartphone for nearly 1 year now, I'd say smartphones are not something you don't need anymore. I lost count of the times this little device saved me from either wasting money or waste time (or get into bad shit)

 

[werepossum]

I'm still wondering how Prodigy is claiming $25k is a decent salary these days. When high school kids are at that level or close to it working at McDonalds.

A two worker family each earning $25k is slightly over Georgia median household income and less than $2K under national median household income. Do you really want to argue that a salary capable of putting a couple at mean household income is not a decent salary? It does of course depend greatly on the area and the associated cost of living, but two $25K workers are the definition of middle class - though not necessarily something to aim for. Prodigy is more right for his area than you're giving him credit, though in other areas of course $25K is poverty range.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html

 

[HamburgerBoy]

A two worker family each earning $25k is slightly over Georgia median household income and less than $2K under national median household income. Do you really want to argue that a salary capable of putting a couple at mean household income is not a decent salary? It does of course depend greatly on the area and the associated cost of living, but two $25K workers are the definition of middle class - though not necessarily something to aim for. Prodigy is more right for his area than you're giving him credit, though in other areas of course $25K is poverty range.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html

Pr0d1gy was talking about supporting a family on a single income of $25k, not a $50k household income.

 

[werepossum]

Pr0d1gy was talking about supporting a family on a single income of $25k, not a $50k household income.

Yes, but remember he cited $25K as a decent wage not meaning decent as in they should be glad to get it, or decent as in a reasonable wage to raise a family, but rather decent as in not an unusually low wage or a wage at which comparably few people exist. Not decent as in good, but rather decent as in not atypical. His point was that it's hard to get by on $25K but many people must. My point was that positing $25K as decent in the sense he used it is not unreasonable because in a two-earner family that gives you right at median household income. Granted, it's a below-average wage, but it's the best that many people can do. Should these people then have children? Probably not - but if they waited until they had security they'd never have a family.

And falling into poverty can happen easily. Many people who thought they would be that middle class household end up a single parent household in poverty; it's just not that difficult. One bad judgment of character in selecting a lover, one drunken night missing birth control, even just pure bad luck - I'm betting not many households with two $25K earners have sufficient life insurance to avoid poverty should one die or become disabled, and the best judgment in the world can't always prevent heart attacks or strokes or drunk drivers. There is a reason a single parent family is the single biggest indicator of poverty, and our surge in poverty rates is directly correlated to our surges in single parent families and out-of-wedlock births, but it's not just poor judgment. Shit happens, and your employer won't double your salary 'cause it happened to you. The person trying to raise two kids on $25K might be a perfectly good, industrious person with a bit of bad luck. And his example can easily be scaled up - if one is in an area where grunts at McDonald's are making $35K, one probably isn't paying $400 in rent. Not if one wants those children to survive to adulthood. (Unless, obviously, Uncle Sugar is picking up part of the rent.)

 

[werepossum]

Having 2 kids is hugely expensive but I can afford them, but when the wife was stay at home we lived cheque to cheque. Never got further in debt but nothing got upgraded, no new couches, cars, electronics or cable TV. We went w Sears zero interest on a new $600 washer cause I knew we'd make the 50 a month payments and not get screwed if we missed a payment w huge interest.

That was while they were still young and no organized sports, school supplies and so on. We also had to save to get vaccinations against menengitis and chicken pox which weren't covered under insurance at that time x2
It was always pro/cons budgeting everyday, and its wearing.

Now, we don't have that problem and we often take thanks in when we do go buy an Xbox or go to Disney it was but just a few short yrs ago that would have been out of reach and pause to appreciate

That to me is the American dream foreigners originally (and often still) came to America to realize, not to get rich but to get by and gradually claw your way to a place of your own, a little security, a few little luxuries. You make sacrifices such as one parent staying home (at least until the kids get into school) even though you could really use the added income. You stay solvent with your old furniture rather than going into debt just to have something new. I salute you, sir. It's refreshing in an age where people with household incomes of $70K+ are asking Presidential candidates "What are you going to do for me?" and if we had more of that today, we'd have a better country.

 

[werepossum]

Once I would have agreed with you, but after living with a smartphone for nearly 1 year now, I'd say smartphones are not something you don't need anymore. I lost count of the times this little device saved me from either wasting money or waste time (or get into bad shit)

They are useful and I'd love to have one. I don't, even though I could afford it, because I choose other ways to spend (or not spend) my money and because they aren't essential. Nintendesert's point was that living paycheck to paycheck is for the average American a choice, not something forced upon them. If you choose to spend all your money, even on useful and handy things, don't expect sympathy because you have no money. This is undeniably true as I get by just fine without a smart phone. In fact, sometimes it's hard to avoid the feeling that smart phone ownership correlates negatively with income, being most prevalent among those with no jobs at all. I literally can't remember the last time someone complaining to me about not having any money didn't have a smart phone - even the folks who clean our building inevitably have them - but it IS a choice. Doesn't mean you're a bad person or a dumb person, it's merely a choice of lifestyle.

Dave Ramsey calls it spending money we don't have on things we don't need to impress people we don't like. I don't fully agree - for instance, I suspect that most people with a smart phone on a credit card don't care about impressing anyone, just about not being left behind and negatively impressing them - but there's definitely some truth there.