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Americans enjoying Republican free market alternatives to Obamacare.

theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...with-less-coverage-floods-market?srnd=premium
When the Republican-controlled Senate failed in 2017 to pass Trump-backed legislation that would have gutted the ACA, the administration instead seized on the loophole allowing consumers to buy certain noncompliant plans. Trump used an executive order to extend the time limit for temporary plans, which he and other Republicans talked up as a potential solution for cash-strapped consumers. Healthy people, they argued, could save money by buying policies that didn’t cover perceived nonessentials.
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Sounds great, but I know you are wondering how much money people saved with these policies...
It wasn’t until February 2018 that she really began to take notice. One of the new letters was stamped “past due.” Another said “final notice.” Another said “delinquent,” highlighted in red. Still another was the “total you owe on all accounts”—the bill for $244,447.91, three times the value of the Diazes’ home.
When Marisia called Everest’s claims department, the representative was blunt: The insurer wouldn’t be paying anything beyond the $4,000 the plan had already covered.
...
Marisia soon learned about the policy’s limitations. The Everest plan didn’t cover preexisting conditions, limited the number of doctor visits, and capped hospital coverage at $1,000 a day. It allowed a maximum of $250 per emergency room visit and $5,000 per surgery, not nearly enough to cover the usual cost of those services. Most benefits didn’t kick in until the $7,500 deductible was met.
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Yep, insurance paid $4K after $7500 deductible, leaving them with $245K bill to pay. Great free market innovation for consumers, thanks Donald.
The family switched to a comprehensive, ACA-compliant insurance policy in December 2017. With government subsidies, it costs less than they were paying for junk insurance.
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Not sure why they would ever go back to big bad Obamacare after such a fine experience with free market alternatives. But hey, they still have a nice six figure reminder of the good times they had with private sector.
 
Pretty clear this was always the intent. Republicans can’t do away with the ACA as its central provisions are wildly popular and they have no viable alternative. So instead the plan is to try and exploit every possible loophole to give Americans worse and less useable insurance. When the entirely predictable happens, blame the ACA anyway.

Kind of amazing how Republicans purposefully harm their own constituents. Even more amazing that their constituents don’t seem to notice who is screwing them.
 
fskimospy said:
Pretty clear this was always the intent. Republicans can’t do away with the ACA as its central provisions are wildly popular and they have no viable alternative. So instead the plan is to try and exploit every possible loophole to give Americans worse and less useable insurance. When the entirely predictable happens, blame the ACA anyway.

Kind of amazing how Republicans purposefully harm their own constituents. Even more amazing that their constituents don’t seem to notice who is screwing them.
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This couple is noticing the $245K elephant dong, I am sure.
 
all i can say is be careful of what you wish for. I'm lucky, I have good insurance through my work, not everyone does.
 
fskimospy said:
Pretty clear this was always the intent. Republicans can’t do away with the ACA as its central provisions are wildly popular and they have no viable alternative. So instead the plan is to try and exploit every possible loophole to give Americans worse and less useable insurance. When the entirely predictable happens, blame the ACA anyway.

Kind of amazing how Republicans purposefully harm their own constituents. Even more amazing that their constituents don’t seem to notice who is screwing them.
Click to expand...

The concept of "wildly popular" is in and of itself a horrible thing for democracy.

People would vote in an instant to send them $1,000 a month. Does that mean it is good for the economy? Does that mean our dollar will strengthen? Will it massively increase our debt? WHO CARES!!! YAY! FREE MONIES!

My point simply is that when you want to turn around and do single payer, you might come to find people that don't want to rip off the bandaid of the ACA.
 
senseamp said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...with-less-coverage-floods-market?srnd=premium

Sounds great, but I know you are wondering how much money people saved with these policies...

Yep, insurance paid $4K after $7500 deductible, leaving them with $245K bill to pay. Great free market innovation for consumers, thanks Donald.

Not sure why they would ever go back to big bad Obamacare after such a fine experience with free market alternatives. But hey, they still have a nice six figure reminder of the good times they had with private sector.
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I fucking love how you post these heart throbbing stories and immediately point the finger at insurance companies as if they are the evil-doers.

Hospitals and the actual care systems we have in place are fucking worse than our insurance bureaucracy if you think $250k bill is anything reasonable to anyone.

You know how to fix a lot of shit? An easy first step would be simply a requirement that every hospital, doctor, etc... must accept all insurances and must be in-network for all. BAM. $250k bills will cease to exist.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
The concept of "wildly popular" is in and of itself a horrible thing for democracy.

People would vote in an instant to send them $1,000 a month. Does that mean it is good for the economy? Does that mean our dollar will strengthen? Will it massively increase our debt? WHO CARES!!! YAY! FREE MONIES!

My point simply is that when you want to turn around and do single payer, you might come to find people that don't want to rip off the bandaid of the ACA.
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That's patently false. California for example has a system where people can get any measure they want on the ballot with enough signatures. Guess how many times "free money" has been added to the ballot? Zero.
 
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s0me0nesmind1 said:
The concept of "wildly popular" is in and of itself a horrible thing for democracy.
Click to expand...

Translating popular support into policy is literally the purpose of democracy.

People would vote in an instant to send them $1,000 a month. Does that mean it is good for the economy? Does that mean our dollar will strengthen? Will it massively increase our debt? WHO CARES!!! YAY! FREE MONIES!

My point simply is that when you want to turn around and do single payer, you might come to find people that don't want to rip off the bandaid of the ACA.
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While something being popular doesn't mean we should do it 100% of the time any democratic system should be enacting the popular will significantly more often than not. If it isn't, it probably isn't a democracy.

This is in fact part of the (pretty good!) argument that the US is no longer a democracy in the generally understood sense as popular support among the population has very little predictive value as to if a policy is enacted. Support by rich people correlates strongly, however, indicating that we are more of an oligarchy.

press.princeton.edu

Affluence and Influence

Why policymaking in the United States privileges the rich over the poor
press.princeton.edu press.princeton.edu
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I fucking love how you post these heart throbbing stories and immediately point the finger at insurance companies as if they are the evil-doers.

Hospitals and the actual care systems we have in place are fucking worse than our insurance bureaucracy if you think $250k bill is anything reasonable to anyone.

You know how to fix a lot of shit? An easy first step would be simply a requirement that every hospital, doctor, etc... must accept all insurances and must be in-network for all. BAM. $250k bills will cease to exist.
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You are spinning very hard to defend an insurance plan that charges $400 per month ($4800 per year) and only paid out $4000 per hospital stay after $7500 deductible has been met. You must be a Republican. What's your party doing about medical costs? Letting insurers screw people on top of the hospitals?
 
senseamp said:
You are spinning very hard to defend an insurance plan that charges $400 per month ($4800 per year) and only paid out $4000 per hospital stay after $7500 deductible has been met. You must be a Republican. What's your party doing about medical costs? Letting insurers screw people on top of the hospitals?
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I'm not defending a shitty insurance plan. But something tells me the bigger elephant in the room for that guy isn't the fact that he paid for crappy insurance - it's that the hospital charged him that amount.

Fuck it, why even stop at 250k? Why not $250m? How about your first born son?

Why is it the insurance's fault that the hospital doesn't want to accept reasonable negotiated rates?
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I'm not defending a shitty insurance plan. But something tells me the bigger elephant in the room for that guy isn't the fact that he paid for crappy insurance - it's that the hospital charged him that amount.

Fuck it, why even stop at 250k? Why not $250m? How about your first born son?

Why is it the insurance's fault that the hospital doesn't want to accept reasonable negotiated rates?
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The real answer is that both the hospitals and the insurance companies are at fault. I am more likely to defend health insurers than most people but there is something immoral (imo) about offering $hitty plans that don't do a good job of covering people. I say it is immoral because it's really hard to understand what insurance does and does not cover. This is one of the positive things that the ACA puts into place. It sets better minimum levels of coverage so things like this are less likely to happen.

That being said hospital billing is way out of wack in this country and should be fixed.
 
Chromagnus said:
The real answer is that both the hospitals and the insurance companies are at fault. I am more likely to defend health insurers than most people but there is something immoral (imo) about offering $hitty plans that don't do a good job of covering people. I say it is immoral because it's really hard to understand what insurance does and does not cover. This is one of the positive things that the ACA puts into place. It sets better minimum levels of coverage so things like this are less likely to happen.

That being said hospital billing is way out of wack in this country and should be fixed.
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I don't disagree with what you said one bit.

I just detest uneducated ignorant fools that think hospitals and doctors are innocent here. I guess some people started to realize that from the Opioid crisis as far as doctors - but yet we still have fucking morons that think hospitals aren't royally fucking everything up.

I mean really? What is not to understand here? Anytime you go to the hospital or a doctor with insurance they send that $250k bill to the insurance. Then they say "Okay, since you're Anthem/Cigna/UHC you only owe us $3,500". How fucked up in the head do you have to be to not understand who the evil one is there?
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I'm not defending a shitty insurance plan. But something tells me the bigger elephant in the room for that guy isn't the fact that he paid for crappy insurance - it's that the hospital charged him that amount.

Fuck it, why even stop at 250k? Why not $250m? How about your first born son?

Why is it the insurance's fault that the hospital doesn't want to accept reasonable negotiated rates?
Click to expand...
This is free markets at work. How much is your life worth to you? If it's worth all your money, why wouldn't a private free market take it? They aren't in the business of leaving money on the table.
Isn't it interesting how in single payer countries hospitals accept the insurer's rates?
 
Obamacare is the reason I pay 743 dollars a month for insurance that doesn't cover a fucking thing.
So yeah great job stealing from the lower middle class to bribe poor people just so the party can fuck people over in 2016 and lead us straight to a fascist man child.
 
shortylickens said:
Obamacare is the reason I pay 743 dollars a month for insurance that doesn't cover a fucking thing.
So yeah great job stealing from the lower middle class to bribe poor people just so the party can fuck people over in 2016 and lead us straight to a fascist man child.
Click to expand...


ACA is not why you're paying that much. You're paying that much because the insurance companies can and do charge that much for (shitty) coverage.
Insurance was expensive and rising every.single.year.with.no.stop.in.sight long before ACA came around.
 
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