American troops prepare for assault on Sunni stronghold

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BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

I am amazed at your ability to remain blind in the face of facts as you cling to your own unsubstantiated claims.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Here's another cut and paste per your request.

Feel free to ignore the information in this report as well.

IRAQ: Ramadi residents flee city after latest US-led attacks

24 Feb 2005 14:41:07 GMT
Source: IRIN
RAMADI, 24 February (IRIN) - Residents of Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province some 100 km east of Baghdad, have started to flee the city following the latest offensive launched by US Marines and the Iraqi army.

The military have carried out raids in the province over the past few days in an attempt to crack down on insurgents, with the main focus of operations eing Ramadi, a rebel stronghold.

Worried that the offensive could proceed as it did in nearby Fallujah, where he majority of the city's population was forced to flee during a near hree-month long campaign, many Ramadi families are taking personal effects and food supplies and heading to relatives' houses in the capital, or to the same camps where residents from Fallujah fled.

A number of checkpoints have been set up around the city of 400,000 and a curfew has been established. It runs from 2000 to 0600. Vehicles are being inspecting carefully and any suspect is being taken for further interrogation, Marines' spokesman Lt-Col Paul Brathen told IRIN.

"Many insurgents have escaped Fallujah to this area but they won't have time to take the city and our early operation will prevent that. People have started to flee the city but it's too early for that," Brathen added.

But citizens, exhausted by ongoing violence, are afraid and are choosing to leave before the situation worsens. "They want to destroy the whole area and build a New York City there, and for that they are tearing down everything. We want to live in peace. We are tired of fighting and bombs. God, please protect us," Muhammad Farhan, a father of five, who was fleeing the city with his family, told IRIN.

Government offices and shops have closed and people are having difficulties getting food supplies as the offensive came quickly and without warning, giving them no time to prepare.

A government official from the city, who wished to remain anonymous, told IRIN that they expected the situation to get much worse, especially in some areas of Ramadi where insurgents were putting up a strong fight. He added that most government officials had already left the city.

Firdous al-Abadi, a spokeswoman for the Iraqi Red Crescent Society (IRCS), told IRIN that many people had been trapped in the university and inside mosques for over 48 hours as fighting raged outside.

"The government should take responsibility and provide those people with everything that is required for their survival," al-Abadi added. "People are tired of running from place to place."

Al-Abadi also said that the IRCS had sent a supply convoy last weekend to Fallujah, as nearly 100 families were still homeless inside the city after their homes were destroyed.

"This fighting should stop to prevent more displaced people in our country. If those already displaced are not receiving any help from the government, what will happen if more people become homeless?" al-Abadi asked.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

I am amazed at your ability to remain blind in the face of facts as you cling to your own unsubstantiated claims.

I'm not the one making "unsubstantiated claims" ;) But hey, whatever feeds your hate...

CsG
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

lol :D

Bevis and Butthead laughing it up in spite of themselves.

What a surprise.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

lol :D

Bevis and Butthead laughing it up in spite of themselves.

What a surprise.

Does that make you Sponge"BOB" squarepants? :laugh:

CsG
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

lol :D

Bevis and Butthead laughing it up in spite of themselves.

What a surprise.

Does that make you Sponge"BOB" squarepants? :laugh:

CsG

That would be difficult Bevis since my name is Bill.

But you never let the facts get in the way.



 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
In the interest of truth here is an article from the Washington Post on the U.S. destruction of and subsequent failure to rebuild Fallujah.

U.S. Feeling Pressure To Rebuild Fallujah

Is this article supposed to back up your 75% claim?

Got more articles to cut/paste? :laugh:

CsG

lol :D

Bevis and Butthead laughing it up in spite of themselves.

What a surprise.

Does that make you Sponge"BOB" squarepants? :laugh:

CsG

I'd say that there's a 75% chance of it!
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Your shared ignorance is so absolute as to be impressive in its own way.

Do you believe the people of Falluljah returned to the city they left before the U.S. led assault or did they return to a city largely destroyed? Why don't we ever see any pictures or video from Fallujah in the American press?

Why do you choose to ignore the reports of the destruction of Fallujah and instead make schoolboy jokes about it?

Is the truth too hard to take?

 

Duckzilla

Senior member
Nov 16, 2004
430
0
0
I think it's important to remember that if Bush and his top brass decide to do something like this, it will come to pass. You can come in here and wear your fingers down to the knuckles typing and it won't change a thing.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
I think it's important to remember that if Bush and his top brass decide to do something like this, it will come to pass. You can come in here and wear your fingers down to the knuckles typing and it won't change a thing.

Unlike some here, I'd rather wear my fingers down to the knuckles than allow Bush's lies to stand unopposed.

 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Your shared ignorance is so absolute as to be impressive in its own way.

Do you believe the people of Falluljah returned to the city they left before the U.S. led assault or did they return to a city largely destroyed? Why don't we ever see any pictures or video from Fallujah in the American press?

Why do you choose to ignore the reports of the destruction of Fallujah and instead make schoolboy jokes about it?

Is the truth too hard to take?

I've heard that 75% of all dogs are named 'Spot'.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Slightly off-topic, but worth it. Proof that the Iraqi people live in fear of American soldiers?

Iraqi children cower in terror from American soldier

We must be doing something right.

They are children. Don't use them as pawns in this political disaster. How low can the propaganda sink?

And I'm sure there's another side to this story as well.

For instance:

Civilian cost of battle for Falluja emerges

The full cost of the battle of Falluja emerged last night as large numbers of wounded civilians were evacuated to hospitals in Baghdad, as insurgents stepped up retaliatory attacks in other cities.

As the first Red Crescent aid convoy was allowed into Falluja, Iraq's Health Minister, Alaa Alwan, said ambulances had begun transferring a 'significant number' of injured civilians out of the battle zone, although he did not specify how many.

...

The moves came amid renewed warnings from aid groups that Iraq's civilian population was facing a 'humanitarian catastrophe'.

Although many of Falluja's 200,000 to 300,000 residents fled the city before the assault, between 30,000 and 50,000 are believed to have remained during the fighting.

The horrific conditions for those who remained in the city have begun to emerge in the last 24 hours as it became clear that US military claims of 'precision' targeting of insurgent positions were false.

According to one Iraqi journalist who left Falluja on Friday, some of the civilian injuries were caused by the massive firepower directed on to city neighbourhoods during the battle.

'If the fighters fire a mortar, US forces respond with huge force,' said the journalist, who asked not to be named.

...

Red Crescent spokeswoman Firdoos al-Abadi - who had described the situation inside the city as 'catastrophic' - said 30 volunteers with five trucks and three ambulances had driven into the city west of Baghdad.

The aid convoy reached Falluja's main hospital, on the west bank of the Euphrates, but US forces stopped it crossing the river into the city centre, saying bridges were insecure.

The fears of large numbers of civilian injured have raised fresh warnings that the suffering in Falluja will be used to rally insurgents across northern Iraq.

...

US Marine officers in Falluja itself said they hoped to have the whole of the city under their control within 72 hours.

The predictions came as US troops, tanks and artillery launched a major attack on what they said were the final positions of insurgents still holding outs, leaving a pall of black smoke covering much of the city.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
"The office of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said Monday that only about 200 buildings out of 17,000 in Fallujah had sustained major damage."

Damage assessed in Fallujah

Is that the same CIA asset puppet Allawi who claimed there were NO civilian casualties in Fallujah?

Also from your piece:

(do you actually believe this much firepower can be used against a civilian target without "incerdible destruction"?)

"It's incredible, the destruction. It's overwhelming," said Sgt. Todd Bowers, a Marine civil affairs specialist attached to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment who is helping determine reconstruction needs. "My first question is: Where to begin?"

Journalists have not visited all parts of the city, and Monday's tour with the engineers gave only a limited glimpse of conditions, but damage of varying severity has been seen in contested areas in the north, east and southeast and along the main road bisecting Fallujah and the main business district near the Euphrates River bridge.

Even before the assault on Fallujah, U.S. warplanes struck repeatedly at suspected insurgent strongholds here, and U.S. forces opened their attack Nov. 8 with a heavy air and artillery bombardment that sent great plumes of smoke and fire over its neighborhoods.

A week of ground combat by Marines and some Iraqi troops, supported by tanks and attack helicopters, added to the destruction in a city where the homes and businesses for about 300,000 people are packed into an area a little less than two miles wide and a little more than that long.

 

Duckzilla

Senior member
Nov 16, 2004
430
0
0
Of course there were civilian casualties. It's inevitable.

"Is that the same CIA asset puppet Allawi who claimed there were NO civilian casualties in Fallujah?"

Do you have linkage to support this? When did he say that?

The fact that American ground troops even went into Fallujah proves that we wanted to keep civilian casualties and collateral damage low. We could have destroyed 75% or more of Fallajuh with air power alone and not have risked a single US life.

Your claims simply do not make sense in light of the facts.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Of course there were civilian casualties. It's inevitable.

"Is that the same CIA asset puppet Allawi who claimed there were NO civilian casualties in Fallujah?"

Do you have linkage to support this? When did he say that?

The fact that American ground troops even went into Fallujah proves that we wanted to keep civilian casualties and collateral damage low. We could have destroyed 75% or more of Fallajuh with air power alone and not have risked a single US life.

Your claims simply do not make sense in light of the facts.

I found a link referencing Allawi's statement at Informed Comment, November 16, 2004.


American ground troops went into Fallujah after weeks of bombardment and shelling. The "precision strikes" were, in reality -- and just as in the first Gulf War -- really indiscriminate widespread bombardment.

Civilian cost of battle for Falluja emerges

The horrific conditions for those who remained in the city have begun to emerge in the last 24 hours as it became clear that US military claims of 'precision' targeting of insurgent positions were false.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Here is a report I found on the firepower used against Fallujah prior to the U.S. destruction of that city of over 300,000.

State of Emergency: Carnage Swells all-over Iraq

Recap

U.S. jets have been pounding the rebel bastion for days, launching its heaviest airstrikes in six months on Saturday including five 500-pound bombs dropped on insurgent targets in efforts to soften up militants.

On Sunday, U.S. commanders were giving troops last-minute pep talks, comparing their efforts to come with historic battles in Korea, Japan, and Vietnam.

U.S. intelligence estimates there are about 3,000 insurgents dug in behind defenses and booby traps in Fallujah, a city of about 300,000 which has become a symbol throughout the Islamic world of Iraqi resistance to the U.S.-led occupation.

Sgt. Maj. Carlton W. Kent, the top enlisted Marine in Iraq, told troops the coming battle of Fallujah would be "no different" than the historic fights at Inchon in Korea, the flag-raising victory at Iwo Jima, or the bloody assault to dislodge North Vietnamese from the ancient citadel of Hue they seized in the 1968 Tet Offensive.

"You're all in the process of making history," Kent told a crowd of some 2,500 Marines. "This is another Hue city in the making. I have no doubt, if we do get the word, that each and every one of you is going to do what you have always done ? kick some butt."

 

Duckzilla

Senior member
Nov 16, 2004
430
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Here is a report I found on the firepower used against Fallujah prior to the U.S. destruction of that city of over 300,000.

State of Emergency: Carnage Swells all-over Iraq

Recap

U.S. jets have been pounding the rebel bastion for days, launching its heaviest airstrikes in six months on Saturday including five 500-pound bombs dropped on insurgent targets in efforts to soften up militants.

On Sunday, U.S. commanders were giving troops last-minute pep talks, comparing their efforts to come with historic battles in Korea, Japan, and Vietnam.

U.S. intelligence estimates there are about 3,000 insurgents dug in behind defenses and booby traps in Fallujah, a city of about 300,000 which has become a symbol throughout the Islamic world of Iraqi resistance to the U.S.-led occupation.

Sgt. Maj. Carlton W. Kent, the top enlisted Marine in Iraq, told troops the coming battle of Fallujah would be "no different" than the historic fights at Inchon in Korea, the flag-raising victory at Iwo Jima, or the bloody assault to dislodge North Vietnamese from the ancient citadel of Hue they seized in the 1968 Tet Offensive.

"You're all in the process of making history," Kent told a crowd of some 2,500 Marines. "This is another Hue city in the making. I have no doubt, if we do get the word, that each and every one of you is going to do what you have always done ? kick some butt."


I don't think you get it. We *could* have dropped five HUNDRED 500 lbs. bombs on them if we wanted to, but we didn't. 38 marines died cleaning out Fallujah. And by the looks of it, it could happen again in another city, whether you like it or not. Type away, won't change a thing.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Originally posted by: BBond
Here is a report I found on the firepower used against Fallujah prior to the U.S. destruction of that city of over 300,000.

State of Emergency: Carnage Swells all-over Iraq

Recap

U.S. jets have been pounding the rebel bastion for days, launching its heaviest airstrikes in six months on Saturday including five 500-pound bombs dropped on insurgent targets in efforts to soften up militants.

On Sunday, U.S. commanders were giving troops last-minute pep talks, comparing their efforts to come with historic battles in Korea, Japan, and Vietnam.

U.S. intelligence estimates there are about 3,000 insurgents dug in behind defenses and booby traps in Fallujah, a city of about 300,000 which has become a symbol throughout the Islamic world of Iraqi resistance to the U.S.-led occupation.

Sgt. Maj. Carlton W. Kent, the top enlisted Marine in Iraq, told troops the coming battle of Fallujah would be "no different" than the historic fights at Inchon in Korea, the flag-raising victory at Iwo Jima, or the bloody assault to dislodge North Vietnamese from the ancient citadel of Hue they seized in the 1968 Tet Offensive.

"You're all in the process of making history," Kent told a crowd of some 2,500 Marines. "This is another Hue city in the making. I have no doubt, if we do get the word, that each and every one of you is going to do what you have always done ? kick some butt."


I don't think you get it. We *could* have dropped five HUNDRED 500 lbs. bombs on them if we wanted to, but we didn't. 38 marines died cleaning out Fallujah. And by the looks of it, it could happen again in another city, whether you like it or not. Type away, won't change a thing.

It certainly won't change the fact that we attacked a nation with no ties to terrorism which created the terrorist threat we are now destroying that nation to defeat.

Doesn't the irony of this situation cause you to consider whether any of this was necessary to begin with or whether Bush has done more harm than good in his "war on terror"?

We're blowing up the wrong people in the wrong country. We told the world we had to do this because of the threat of WMD. There is no WMD. There were no terrorists.

Now all we have to show for Bush's lies is a totally FUBARed Iraq and a failed "war on terror".

And Bush just keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

 

dfinder

Senior member
Feb 13, 2005
390
0
0
Why isn't Iraqi government taking care of the problem. They just had elections, it's their problem. Why dont we let them alone?
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: dfinder
Why isn't Iraqi government taking care of the problem. They just had elections, it's their problem. Why dont we let them alone?

Good idea. Get the U.S. out of Iraq. Bring the troops home YESTERDAY!

The outcome will be the same either way. Iraq will become another Iran.

At least we won't be losing any more American lives, recruiting any more terrorists, killing thousands more Iraqis, or demolishing any more Iraqi cities.

What a colossal waste of time this entire misbegotten adventure has become.

And all over a lie told by a fool.

 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
I don't know why everyone is arguing so much about whether or not we leveled Fallujah. It is pretty much fact that we did.

Dr. Saleh Hussein Iswawi of the Fallujah General Hospital told the British Broadcasting Corporation, ?About 60 percent to 70 percent of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged, and not ready to inhabit at the moment. Of the 30 percent still left standing, I don?t think there is a single one that has not been exposed to some damage.? He reported ongoing fighting. ?I was in Fallujah hospital last night [December 23] and I heard a lot of fighting and bombing, which continued for about three or four hours. I heard very loud explosions inside the city.?

How do YOU know for a fact that they are not damaged? From what the military says? No offense to the military, and I'm sure they wouldn't take offense to what I am saying, but sometimes they have to bend the facts in order to keep the public pacified.