American & Israeli intelligence community distrust Trump so much they withold intelligence from him

[bshole]

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[agent00f]

How can you say that with a straight face given the Goldman Sachs twats in Trump's cabinet? The cabinet positions that involve the wealthy robbing the middle class are 100% filled with looters.... they don't even have intermediaries anymore, the actual looters are holding those positions.

For the cabinet positions that don't involve looting the middle class, Trump picked lunatics instead of professionals with experience in those fields.

"For the sake of argument" doesn't mean I believe something to be the case, but rather just entertaining the idea to see how it plays out. The point is the RNC doesn't have the footing to make a power play anyway.

 

[Commodus]

To revive this subject: the Wall Street Journal now has sources saying the same thing. Won't quote the whole story, but a snippet:

U.S. intelligence officials have withheld sensitive intelligence from President Donald Trump because they are concerned it could be leaked or compromised, according to current and former officials familiar with the matter.

The officials’ decision to keep information from Mr. Trump underscores the deep mistrust that has developed between the intelligence community and the president over his team’s contacts with the Russian government, as well as the enmity he has shown toward U.S. spy agencies. On Wednesday, Mr. Trump accused the agencies of leaking information to undermine him.

In some of these cases of withheld information, officials have decided not to show Mr. Trump the sources and methods that the intelligence agencies use to collect information, the current and former officials said. Those sources and methods could include, for instance, the means that an agency uses to spy on a foreign government.

Now, something important to remember: this is the WSJ. You know, the outlet accused of going soft on Trump because of Rupert Murdoch (and to a lesser extent these days, Roger Ailes) and his insistence that his media outlets echo his conservative views.

I'm sure the Trump camp will rush to accuse the intelligence community of being traitors and demand the sort of mass purge that would make Mussolini proud, but please, think about it before you write. If you're investigating the President's possible collusion with Russia and have strong reason to believe the evidence isn't just coincidental, do you offer particularly relevant state secrets to the President? No, you don't. You balance the needs of the office with the desire to avoid unnecessary risks to national security.

 

[ivwshane]

Going to have to disagree here. If there's clear evidence that there's been monkey business, while they may not WANT to bite the (tiny) hand that has been feeding them, they'd have to or they themselves could end up in crosshairs (figurative and literal)

And I'll have to disagree with you. Have you seen the righties on this forum? That's the base of the Republican party and a good portion of Republicans represent gerrymandered districts which are overly populated with them. So long as they support trump they are safe. Party before country is their unspoken motto.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm sure the Trump camp will rush to accuse the intelligence community of being traitors and demand the sort of mass purge that would make Mussolini proud, but please, think about it before you write. If you're investigating the President's possible collusion with Russia and have strong reason to believe the evidence isn't just coincidental, do you offer particularly relevant state secrets to the President? No, you don't. You balance the needs of the office with the desire to avoid unnecessary risks to national security.

This AM the DNI denial.

"Any suggestion that the U.S. Intelligence Community is withholding information and not providing the best possible intelligence to the President and his national security team is not true,”

I think it good to understand what that means. The intel community never tells any President everything. The sheer volume of material cannot be processed daily by any individual. Instead information is condensed and prioritized largely as the Administration wishes along with things the IC deems very important. In the case of Trump he is demonstrated a lack of interest and distrust of all but a few people. Consequently the ME will be top of the list and certainly Russia will be on there, but the thing is that if it has been determined (as an example) that a President is engaging in espionage, there is no mandate to aid and abet any individual regardless of status or office. The President is not the ultimate authority, the Constitution and laws of the land are. It would be the duty of any agency to pass along criminal wrongdoing to the appropriate authorities for purposes of investigation. The idea that the President is owed information that enables him to dodge criminality is bogus. They will however pass along intel which is unrelated and hence the denial may not be exactly as it seems.

 

[zinfamous]

This AM the DNI denial.

"Any suggestion that the U.S. Intelligence Community is withholding information and not providing the best possible intelligence to the President and his national security team is not true,”

I think it good to understand what that means. The intel community never tells any President everything. The sheer volume of material cannot be processed daily by any individual. Instead information is condensed and prioritized largely as the Administration wishes along with things the IC deems very important. In the case of Trump he is demonstrated a lack of interest and distrust of all but a few people. Consequently the ME will be top of the list and certainly Russia will be on there, but the thing is that if it has been determined (as an example) that a President is engaging in espionage, there is no mandate to aid and abet any individual regardless of status or office. The President is not the ultimate authority, the Constitution and laws of the land are. It would be the duty of any agency to pass along criminal wrongdoing to the appropriate authorities for purposes of investigation. The idea that the President is owed information that enables him to dodge criminality is bogus. They will however pass along intel which is unrelated and hence the denial may not be exactly as it seems.

Also important to point out, and remind a bunch of toadstools here: The presidency is an office; it is not a person. whoever is sitting in that chair at any particular time is leasing the space at the request of the american people, by trust and by faith that this person is doing so in their best interest. Just as the leaser before them, and all those after. An individual president has no powers that supersede the many laws of the country and, most importantly, the laws set in place to restrict the power of that office.

That is well, one of the central and more badass pillars of the constitution.

Most of us learned these things by 4th or 5th grade civics class. I went through both a shitty and a very good public school system, and I learned these things. I wonder what is the excuse of Trumpsters and the man himself?

 

[werepossum]

Fairly sure that even if they believe that, to withhold information from the administration could end up being treasonous in itself. Why not bait and catch and get them ousted for treason rather than just withhold and be convicted themselves?

Obama pretty much made that a non-possibility by changing the rules to share all unverified sigint information from the CIA, NSA, etc. As we see from the sea of politically motivated leaks, there are now so many people with access to the same raw information that determining who leaked it is practically speaking impossible. Besides, the Russians can simply wait for it to be reported in the New York Times; they don't need Trump.

 

[Spungo]

An individual president has no powers that supersede the many laws of the country and, most importantly, the laws set in place to restrict the power of that office.

That is well, one of the central and more badass pillars of the constitution.

lol
The constitution explicitly forbids a lot of things done by government, but that doesn't stop government from doing illegal things. Trump could sign an executive order to make himself a king and it would actually go through. FDR signed an order to make gold illegal, which is a ridiculous abuse of power. Obama famously said he would completely bypass congress and the senate so he could just do whatever the hell he wants, and the audience cheered.

Your laws are meaningless if nobody agrees with them. Americans do not like democracy or freedom in any way. This is why we have things like speech codes and safe spaces. This is why we get people fired for thought crime.